beyond our ken

Yet still, you couldn't resist the urge to reply

Yet still, you couldn't resist the urge to reply

they are an evil invention, but no doubt Stu Dicky will be along soon to tell us they are a worthwhile component in a sound business strategy.
No holiday or sick pay is one thing, however what about training & development or health and safety? These employers expect the state to support poor people just enough for them to survive, but only if they take on these horrendous job offers. In effect, taxpayers are subsidising the profits of companies who employ through these contracts.
We are finally getting Thatcher's vision. People unable to secure mortgages or loans, forced to go to local authorities who use our tax pounds to pay tory private landlords exorbitant rents for hovels. They are here just to pick up the menial tasks and consume with only the bare minimum of state aid. Big society my arse
this country should hang it's head in shame

they are an evil invention, but no doubt Stu Dicky will be along soon to tell us they are a worthwhile component in a sound business strategy.
No holiday or sick pay is one thing, however what about training & development or health and safety? These employers expect the state to support poor people just enough for them to survive, but only if they take on these horrendous job offers. In effect, taxpayers are subsidising the profits of companies who employ through these contracts.
We are finally getting Thatcher's vision. People unable to secure mortgages or loans, forced to go to local authorities who use our tax pounds to pay tory private landlords exorbitant rents for hovels. They are here just to pick up the menial tasks and consume with only the bare minimum of state aid. Big society my arse
this country should hang it's head in shame

they are an evil invention, but no doubt Stu Dicky will be along soon to tell us they are a worthwhile component in a sound business strategy.
No holiday or sick pay is one thing, however what about training & development or health and safety? These employers expect the state to support poor people just enough for them to survive, but only if they take on these horrendous job offers. In effect, taxpayers are subsidising the profits of companies who employ through these contracts.
We are finally getting Thatcher's vision. People unable to secure mortgages or loans, forced to go to local authorities who use our tax pounds to pay tory private landlords exorbitant rents for hovels. They are here just to pick up the menial tasks and consume with only the bare minimum of state aid. Big society my arse
this country should hang it's head in shame

That last sentence betrays yet again your complete lack of understanding of the problems many people face in real life.
In your wee world, everyone has a choice in these matters.
According to the report today nearly 1 MILLION people are stuck on these contracts.
Not all of those can be students as we don't have anywhere near that number of students in the country.
If those estimated figures are remotely correct it is, on the face of it, good evidence that the scheme is being abused and it needs urgent investigation.
BTW people with families will take ANYTHING on offer if the alternative is to sit at home and take mindless abuse from people like you about how they are simply shirkers. This means many are forced into work which comes with no employment rights at all.

I listened to the episode of Off the Ball in question.
The "former-trainer-turned-stand-up-comic" that nobody had ever heard of made his claim, and Cowan immediately asked if this was just and allegation or if there had been lawyers. The guest responded by saying it was a matter of fact that he'd been sat down by the club and fired because his "problem" was "inappropriate".
Seems like a far cry from either the version of events as described by the club, or the subsequent account by the attention seeking no-mark when he had been called out on the matter.
Like most people, I would welcome an end to homophobia, racism and any other form of bigotry in both football and in society, but idiots like this do nothing to bring this closer to reality. This man just lied for attention as he is trying to make a name for himself as an actor/writer/comedian/pundit/anything at all as long as people notice him.

Last season, St. Johnstone were at the end of September or start of October before they won a match. They were in utter turmoil and had a squad which was all over the shop.
Fast forward to May and they were in a 3rd place finish.
Now, I'm not saying that's us, but some of the reactionary shite on here is just that. Shite.
We now have the blessing of two weeks and the avoidance of a f**king spanking at Parkhead to regroup, analyse what exactly went wrong and adjust accordingly. I expect at least four new faces by the time we face Kilmarnock, regardless of lack of budget. If its been cut due to the Hearts situation, then I expect relevant funds to be freed up. If he's been holding back the budget due to believing we were in good enough shape, then I expect him to fill it accordingly. I also expect a new goalkeeper in to ask serious questions of Cornell. A pre-season and one league game is unfair to fully judge him on, but there should be someone with experience at the back of him ready to take his place should he not be up to the job.
Make no mistake about it, if this is the squad were going with this season, well finish bottom regardless of hearts. There are the makings of a good squad there, it desperately needs fleshed out with more quality though.

You have got, and continue to get, far better from DL and St Mirren
If the board do what the idiot crowd want then the result will probably be relegation, by quite a margin as well.

I would never seek to take anything away from Danny in terms of the League Cup win, but I do believe it is possible to set this achievement apart from the general business of league football, and the role of the manager within both competitions.
I think players have their eye on the prize when it comes to the cup and this is motivation in itself - moreso once they've successfully negotiated a couple of rounds. How often have we heard players talking about a major cup win potentially being a 'once in a lifetime' experience etc?
Again, I'm not looking to detract from the manager's input, but I do think we have to put the cup victory to one side when considering the bread and butter business of the season. It doesn't paper over the cracks, in my view, because that denigrates just how important and momentous an achievement it was for all involved. It is, however, a distinct competition, and the impact the cup campaign appears to have had on our league form (something that the players and manager have acknowledged) cannot be ignored, thus underlining the distinction.
The cracks in our league form have been there for all to see. The cup campaign was a very welcome break from them, and I suspect the players also embraced this. As such, they (the players) have to shoulder a degree of responsibility. Whether there is some form of behind the scenes unrest between management and players is mere speculation, but these guys are payed to do a job, and do it on a consistent basis. Unravelling as they appeared to do yesterday after the penalty, is very worrying. Heads shouldn't go down, FFS. You expect that from a team of 8 year olds, but not professional athletes.
Experienced guys like Thompson, Harkins, McGowan, and Teale need to step up to the plate. Whether they regard the manager as a bit of a tumshie or not is moot, but they still have to prove week in, week out, that they are fit to wear the jerseys.
I have concerns about Danny, I won't lie. I also have concerns regardng the extent to which he has the respect of some of the players, but they need to rise above this. In the past, I've reported to slabbering f**kwits in the workplace, but didn't see this an excuse to down tools. In the final analysis, you are answerable and accountable for your own performance. That applies to Danny, but also to the players.

Set out at 9am yesterday and got back around 10pm like the other 500 Saints fans was gutted we lost the FIRST LEAGUE GAME. Now the loyal army want the manager sacked ? Gowser was taken off because he was marked out of the game but the small portion of alcohol fuelled fans shout you don't know what your doing , nothing like the blind leading the blind. Some of the abuse our manager took made me cringe and ashamed. Now this piss poor thread , aye it's feels great being a supporter of this great club

corrected

Have i jumped over to a parallel universe where that kind of comment makes sense?

I cant remember our league position in 1964, 2002, 1993 or just about any other year
I remember that St Mirren, who almost folded a few short years ago won the league cup this year, scottish cup in 1959 and 1987, they won the anglo scottish cup in 1980, won the first division in 1977, 2000 and several other years and many other great achievements by our small club.
Ask Andy Murray, Jack Nicklaus or anyone else if it's more important to be high in the rankings than it is to win trophys and medals. They know what people are remembered for.
The league Cup win was not a mask for other failures, it was a massive achievement in it's own right by our CLUB that will be recalled by people who will never be able to tell you how many times ICT finished higher than SMFC in the 21st century. To try and dismiss and belittle that achievement is to show yourself up as petty and mean-minded.

I cant remember our league position in 1964, 2002, 1993 or just about any other year
I remember that St Mirren, who almost folded a few short years ago won the league cup this year, scottish cup in 1959 and 1987, they won the anglo scottish cup in 1980, won the first division in 1977, 2000 and several other years and many other great achievements by our small club.
Ask Andy Murray, Jack Nicklaus or anyone else if it's more important to be high in the rankings than it is to win trophys and medals. They know what people are remembered for.
The league Cup win was not a mask for other failures, it was a massive achievement in it's own right by our CLUB that will be recalled by people who will never be able to tell you how many times ICT finished higher than SMFC in the 21st century. To try and dismiss and belittle that achievement is to show yourself up as petty and mean-minded.

I cant remember our league position in 1964, 2002, 1993 or just about any other year
I remember that St Mirren, who almost folded a few short years ago won the league cup this year, scottish cup in 1959 and 1987, they won the anglo scottish cup in 1980, won the first division in 1977, 2000 and several other years and many other great achievements by our small club.
Ask Andy Murray, Jack Nicklaus or anyone else if it's more important to be high in the rankings than it is to win trophys and medals. They know what people are remembered for.
The league Cup win was not a mask for other failures, it was a massive achievement in it's own right by our CLUB that will be recalled by people who will never be able to tell you how many times ICT finished higher than SMFC in the 21st century. To try and dismiss and belittle that achievement is to show yourself up as petty and mean-minded.

I just had a wiki look at Elfsborg's stadium, where Celtic will be playing next week. it is right next door to the old stadium where St Mirren played their first ever European tie in September 1980. How things have changed.
In 1980, Their stadium, although tidy, was owned by the local council and doubled as an athletics arena, it still stands as part of the same complex. It held far fewer than Love st and lacked the atmosphere of our old ground. they now have a grand-looking 14500 capacity stadium with state of the art synthetic turf and 2 big stands
The elfsborg side couldn't live with our quality back then, their players were mostly part time and lacked fitness (though not heart). These days, they are champions-league and Europa league regulars (at least in qualifying), where we havent featured for decades. our lovely old ground had to be raised to pay for a new one, they kept theirs and with it a link to their history. Elfsborg also seem to regularly enjoy 10,000 plus crowds and have given themselves the luxury of extra capacity for big games, we have gone for the option of a stadium that disadvantages home fans when a large away support comes along. They seem to hold a pretty prominent position in Sweden and regularly usurp the bigger teams from Stockholm and Gothenburg. the opposite is true for us, although the cup win may signal a return to us being cup contenders for the near future. Apparently, they also make a decent skin from the earnings from the stadium, I understand that we struggle to make any money outside of match days.
Back then, we scoffed at scandinavian teams, now we envy them. i remember talking to a guy who toured in a youth team in denmark in the 70s, he told us that the facilities were outstanding. We all laughed, after all, what had the danes done for soccer up until that point?
i think these things show how we have deteriorated in so many ways over the last 30 years or so in Scotland. How can we as a club and scotland as a nation have continued to let football decline so far in the last 3 decades?

I cant remember our league position in 1964, 2002, 1993 or just about any other year
I remember that St Mirren, who almost folded a few short years ago won the league cup this year, scottish cup in 1959 and 1987, they won the anglo scottish cup in 1980, won the first division in 1977, 2000 and several other years and many other great achievements by our small club.
Ask Andy Murray, Jack Nicklaus or anyone else if it's more important to be high in the rankings than it is to win trophys and medals. They know what people are remembered for.
The league Cup win was not a mask for other failures, it was a massive achievement in it's own right by our CLUB that will be recalled by people who will never be able to tell you how many times ICT finished higher than SMFC in the 21st century. To try and dismiss and belittle that achievement is to show yourself up as petty and mean-minded.

go support celtic then, it's the only way you will get it

I cant remember our league position in 1964, 2002, 1993 or just about any other year
I remember that St Mirren, who almost folded a few short years ago won the league cup this year, scottish cup in 1959 and 1987, they won the anglo scottish cup in 1980, won the first division in 1977, 2000 and several other years and many other great achievements by our small club.
Ask Andy Murray, Jack Nicklaus or anyone else if it's more important to be high in the rankings than it is to win trophys and medals. They know what people are remembered for.
The league Cup win was not a mask for other failures, it was a massive achievement in it's own right by our CLUB that will be recalled by people who will never be able to tell you how many times ICT finished higher than SMFC in the 21st century. To try and dismiss and belittle that achievement is to show yourself up as petty and mean-minded.

I cant remember our league position in 1964, 2002, 1993 or just about any other year
I remember that St Mirren, who almost folded a few short years ago won the league cup this year, scottish cup in 1959 and 1987, they won the anglo scottish cup in 1980, won the first division in 1977, 2000 and several other years and many other great achievements by our small club.
Ask Andy Murray, Jack Nicklaus or anyone else if it's more important to be high in the rankings than it is to win trophys and medals. They know what people are remembered for.
The league Cup win was not a mask for other failures, it was a massive achievement in it's own right by our CLUB that will be recalled by people who will never be able to tell you how many times ICT finished higher than SMFC in the 21st century. To try and dismiss and belittle that achievement is to show yourself up as petty and mean-minded.

I cant remember our league position in 1964, 2002, 1993 or just about any other year
I remember that St Mirren, who almost folded a few short years ago won the league cup this year, scottish cup in 1959 and 1987, they won the anglo scottish cup in 1980, won the first division in 1977, 2000 and several other years and many other great achievements by our small club.
Ask Andy Murray, Jack Nicklaus or anyone else if it's more important to be high in the rankings than it is to win trophys and medals. They know what people are remembered for.
The league Cup win was not a mask for other failures, it was a massive achievement in it's own right by our CLUB that will be recalled by people who will never be able to tell you how many times ICT finished higher than SMFC in the 21st century. To try and dismiss and belittle that achievement is to show yourself up as petty and mean-minded.

I cant remember our league position in 1964, 2002, 1993 or just about any other year
I remember that St Mirren, who almost folded a few short years ago won the league cup this year, scottish cup in 1959 and 1987, they won the anglo scottish cup in 1980, won the first division in 1977, 2000 and several other years and many other great achievements by our small club.
Ask Andy Murray, Jack Nicklaus or anyone else if it's more important to be high in the rankings than it is to win trophys and medals. They know what people are remembered for.
The league Cup win was not a mask for other failures, it was a massive achievement in it's own right by our CLUB that will be recalled by people who will never be able to tell you how many times ICT finished higher than SMFC in the 21st century. To try and dismiss and belittle that achievement is to show yourself up as petty and mean-minded.

I cant remember our league position in 1964, 2002, 1993 or just about any other year
I remember that St Mirren, who almost folded a few short years ago won the league cup this year, scottish cup in 1959 and 1987, they won the anglo scottish cup in 1980, won the first division in 1977, 2000 and several other years and many other great achievements by our small club.
Ask Andy Murray, Jack Nicklaus or anyone else if it's more important to be high in the rankings than it is to win trophys and medals. They know what people are remembered for.
The league Cup win was not a mask for other failures, it was a massive achievement in it's own right by our CLUB that will be recalled by people who will never be able to tell you how many times ICT finished higher than SMFC in the 21st century. To try and dismiss and belittle that achievement is to show yourself up as petty and mean-minded.

I cant remember our league position in 1964, 2002, 1993 or just about any other year
I remember that St Mirren, who almost folded a few short years ago won the league cup this year, scottish cup in 1959 and 1987, they won the anglo scottish cup in 1980, won the first division in 1977, 2000 and several other years and many other great achievements by our small club.
Ask Andy Murray, Jack Nicklaus or anyone else if it's more important to be high in the rankings than it is to win trophys and medals. They know what people are remembered for.
The league Cup win was not a mask for other failures, it was a massive achievement in it's own right by our CLUB that will be recalled by people who will never be able to tell you how many times ICT finished higher than SMFC in the 21st century. To try and dismiss and belittle that achievement is to show yourself up as petty and mean-minded.