pozbaird Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) thousands of home fans arent on here putting it in type, you are. so yeah, im replying to your implied accusation on another thread. the turnstile system is automated, each click is registered against that turnstile and all the figures are logged on a computer system. a system that is checked and verified by the relevant authorities. after the turnstile figures are checked the hospitality numbers and other spectators (eg panda club) who dont go through a turnstyle is added to the final tally before being announced. its an allseated stadium where individual tickets are sold against a relevant seat number. do you honestly think someone at the club is risking a criminal offence in front of the police etc week in week out? how many punters do you and everyone around you think is not being counted? 10s, 100s, 1000s? still sceptical? Yeah, strangely, I am still sceptical... despite me knowing that we have a modern, all-seated stadium with electronic smartcards and digital counters! I'm sceptical every single time we get what looks like a really good crowd in, and when Phil announces it, we all look at each other and go 'WTF!? - are you denying that a few times a season this scenario happens, with home fans instantly querying the validity of the announced attendance? In regard to the part highlighted in bold - are you seriously suggesting that on both main fan forums, over the past few seasons, I am unique in somehow quizzically publicly posting about the latest attendance figure we all wondered about? I'm willing to bet you any amount you care to mention, that if you were sad enough to trawl through both main forums, there would be plenty of posts stating similar thoughts, following many games - such as the Killie one where they were on a roll and were given sections of the West Stand. Must be a weird optical illusion at our new midden then, where a few times a season, so many people get something so wrong, when all evidence points to the announced figure being bang on. Happier? In regard to our club being fradulent. Of course they are, they sanctioned the signing of Mo Camara. I rest my case. Edited July 31, 2011 by pozbaird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmurray24 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Got to agree with Poz here, there were never 3000 empty seats in the ground yesterday. Last season there was a game at darkheid and on the radio (Keavins) said that crowd was below 25000, yet it was announce that attendance was 48000, so it cant be for tax/Vat reason that they are keeping numbers down at Greenhill Road. Not for one minute am I accusing club of miss doings but I would love to know what criteria that they use to account for attendance and why they are always lower than anyone in the ground can see. Maybe Div if he has got some time could ask about this next time he has a chance to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Got to agree with Poz here, there were never 3000 empty seats in the ground yesterday. Last season there was a game at darkheid and on the radio (Keavins) said that crowd was below 25000, yet it was announce that attendance was 48000, so it cant be for tax/Vat reason that they are keeping numbers down at Greenhill Road. Not for one minute am I accusing club of miss doings but I would love to know what criteria that they use to account for attendance and why they are always lower than anyone in the ground can see. Maybe Div if he has got some time could ask about this next time he has a chance to c*ltic count season ticket holders in their figures whether they actually turn up for the match or not. To be honest I don't think the announced attendence figure has to be completely accurate. What the Inland Revenue would be more concerned about would be the accuracy of the figure for the gate receipts. Perhaps St Mirren weren't counting a number of free tickets that had been issued in the attendence figure or perhaps there is some sort of other anomoly. I have to say though I would have guessed at around 500 empty seats in the Aberdeen end and at least 500 empty in the main stand. The other stand behind the goal also had a fair number of empty seats to the rear on the main stand side. I've no idea how the crowd looked in the stand I was in, but my row in the section we were in had only 5 people in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 thousands of home fans arent on here putting it in type, you are. so yeah, im replying to your implied accusation on another thread. the turnstile system is automated, each click is registered against that turnstile and all the figures are logged on a computer system. a system that is checked and verified by the relevant authorities. still sceptical? 'automated'. That to me is a wee bit like when someone says. "Scientists have vouched for it..." A turnstile system that lets in kids but stops their parents getting access. A turnstile system that does not seem able to give people functioning entry cards even tho they - months ago - purchased (or thought they had) season tickets at greeat expense? Sceptical? Oh aye.... Can you offer sensible reason for actually believing in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 'automated'. That to me is a wee bit like when someone says. "[i]Scientists[/i] have vouched for it..." A turnstile system that lets in kids but stops their parents getting access. A turnstile system that does not seem able to give people functioning entry cards even tho they - months ago - purchased (or thought they had) season tickets at greeat expense? Sceptical? Oh aye.... Can you offer sensible reason for actually believing in it? Ah yes , the poor old scientist , so often swayed by vested interest. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 A load of schools were given free tickets. I always think the numbers a bit low but then again apart from the halfway line ish bits of the two long stands there is never a struggle for seats and you could pick your row. I reckon the black and white seats make it appear busier as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit of 77 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Of course, this all makes sense. As the hope that Yul/Animal and the others had of discrediting the CiC concept by criticising the business plan and process runs out, they switch to a REA-specific campaign of slander. Trying, on the way, to second guess the decisions of players like SMiSA and other partners/members, which has also proven to be an unsuccessful strategy as it their guesses have all been incorrect. Once again though, having been unable to find any actual dirt on REA they instead make things up - just like the SMiSA/Kibble stories that had been touted and turned out to be false. The "Mag7ers" B&W Army's equivalent to the News Of The World, except worse. Post after post based on hearsay, third-hand alleged information, poor research, fantasy, speculation and unfounded nonsense. Well done you guys for your well worked campaign, it has been so successful. You must be so proud. I often wonder why political parties don't fight more of their campaigns on what they will do, how they are good and why you should vote for them. Instead they focus on why the others are shite, liars, incompetent and lead debaucherous lives. Kind of left wondering why these guys don't come straight out and say why the CiC is bad, offer a better solution and let us get on with the job of deciding. Crawl back into your rancid little hovel and hatch another ill-constructed plan to bring the club and town to its knees, it'll be fun to watch you fail again. This place is turning into dickophile heaven Interesting though that Dicko should brandish his "I employ 400 peope " credentials as a way of impressing the natives and then seeks to portray himself as just another director when there are signs that the popular belief is that he has day to day control of the company. Is it true that Maxi has a charge over St Mirren Football Club just now? If so, what is the exact purpose? Have some of the loans and grants materialised already? If so, has any of that money been spent? If it has been spent then where has it gone? Are payments already due on any loans? If so, have they all been met? Can he not lend some of his own money to the CIC? there surely must be a way to do that without getting hit by the tax charges he mentioned at the public meetings. Will the pitch be used as grazing or a paddock by his horsey friends? Why ask for direct debit details when there are so many issues over share ownership to be overcome? Some people are suggesting that the ultimate motive is for someone to get everyone else to pay for their do-gooder visions of a CIC that also happens to control a football club-not a lot is being done to dispel that notion now and the dwindling group of hangers-on who try to defend the CIC by attacking all who question it are now looking more and more like a bunch of wannabes that dream of a seat on the board and of pee-heeing with the allegedly rich and powerful of the parish (sic). And finally, ktf. Do you fancy coming round the Tile to discuss "rancid little hovels" with myself, buddiecat, scottd and quite a few others who have serious doubts over 10000 hours intentions and ability to deliver? Or are you just another internet blowhard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit of 77 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 The folk that spout pish are the ones who do nothing about a situation. They just love sitting on the sidelines and let their bellies rumble because their heads are empty. They have nothing constructive or respectful to say. If there are facts that should be made known to the world then say it intelligently and coherently. Else shut the f**k up. Oh, the irony, but I suppose you missed that By your reasoning, if we have doubts about this project then we can only air them if we have absolute proof or an alternative strategy? What happened to the right to question? Surely it is up to the proposer of such a radical and hitherto untried (at this level) strategy to persuade the rest of us that he has the ability to make the whole thing hang together for the benefit of the club. It seems to me that you can come up with a grandiose vision to deliver your own pet project of social and religious ministry, persuade others to part with their hard-earned cash to finance it in the belief (not, I hasten to add, the knowledge) that it will benefit the club they love and then walk away without a financial scratch or any drain on your well-protected resources when it all falls apart. Tell me how that is fair or how it is liable to fill enough people with the confidence to support it? Anyway, in all seriousness, are you gonnae make me shut the f**k up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Anyway, in all seriousness, are you gonnae make me shut the f**k up? This is a wind-up, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit of 77 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 This is a wind-up, right? I was merely replying in kind and echoing the original posters infammatory and confrontational writing style. You want some as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit of 77 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 A load of schools were given free tickets. I always think the numbers a bit low but then again apart from the halfway line ish bits of the two long stands there is never a struggle for seats and you could pick your row. I reckon the black and white seats make it appear busier as well. You know this for a fact? I would think schools would have a job distributing tickets while all the staff are on holiday> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 I was merely replying in kind and echoing the original posters infammatory and confrontational writing style. You want some as well? I'm all for a bit of polarity in any debate, but when it gets to the stage of people all but challenging others to a square go, it seems that things have degenerated to the point that the 'debate' is hardly worth having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit of 77 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) I'm all for a bit of polarity in any debate, but when it gets to the stage of people all but challenging others to a square go, it seems that things have degenerated to the point that the 'debate' is hardly worth having. So you have no problem with people posting the inflamatory pish that Sonny is guilty of, but have a problem when I take offence and stand up for myself, friends and family members. Or in otherwords Pro CIC-say what you want and have at any detractors with everything you have-no holds are barred CIC sceptics-watch yourselves, we cant have you rocking the boat and spoling our love-in. Edited August 1, 2011 by spirit of 77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 So you have no problem with people posting the inflamatory pish that Sonny is guilty of, but have a problem when I take offence and stand up for myself, friends and family members. Or in otherwords Pro CIC-say what you want and have at any detractors with everything you have-no holds are barred CIC sceptics-watch yourselves, we cant have you rocking the boat and spoling our love-in. Where in my post did I suggest that I support one position over another? I'm neither for nor against the CIC. I'm pretty sceptical, it has to be said, but I don't see the point in resorting to threatening people who disagree with me with a doing - regardless of how upsetting I might have found the way they might have spoken to me on an internet forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Is arse licker allowed? an immediate opportunity to use that phrase springs to mind It would make no difference to me if it was Richard Atkinson, Stewart Gilmour, Brian Caldwell, Campbell Kennedy, Danny Lennon, or John Potter when he was here.... I don't think it's right to call anyone at our club an arsebandit and a chancer. If you have a problem with that, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm ignoring the 'arse licker' comment by the way, it simply isn't worth getting annoyed about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 More of the same old anti-CIC are being silenced nonsense. It is the last bastion of dafties who can't put together a coherhent argument against the CIC. The shame is that it actually stifles debate. We have seen it time and time again. I asked some of the CIC supporters to try not to jump on posters raising genuine concerns. That being said the terminally stoopit have a right to be heard too. I doubt that REA will be overly phased by some of the nonsense being posted or the personal attacks for that matter. I am quietly confident he has heard mush worse having been brought up in the construction and transport industry. Some would argue that it does not reflect well on our support, but they can f"k off and eat cucumber sandwiches. We are a football support, made up of all sorts - even c"ntcillors. That's what makes football great - not the c"ntcillors; however they do act as the benchmark of our indefatigable tolerance. There is a stark difference between genuine concern from the rank and file and creepy b'st'rts damaging the club for their own personal crusade. However, on the point of saying things to peoples faces, perhaps the Tile Bar Freedom Fighters would care to meet with REA at some point to discuss their opinion on the CIC and his credentials in person. More than happy to sit in on the meeting if required. Spirit of 77 does raise an interesting point though. Why can't SMiSA or FOSMA or one of the buses form a CIC and takeover the club? Quite simple really it is credability foremost, but also contacts. You can put together the best business case for it on the planet, but it takes contacts and credability for organisations to part with significant sums of money. I wouldn't trust most Saints supporters with a pub kitty let alone £2M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 More of the same old anti-CIC are being silenced nonsense. It is the last bastion of dafties who can't put together a coherhent argument against the CIC. The shame is that it actually stifles debate. We have seen it time and time again. I asked some of the CIC supporters to try not to jump on posters raising genuine concerns. That being said the terminally stoopit have a right to be heard too. I doubt that REA will be overly phased by some of the nonsense being posted or the personal attacks for that matter. I am quietly confident he has heard mush worse having been brought up in the construction and transport industry. Some would argue that it does not reflect well on our support, but they can f"k off and eat cucumber sandwiches. We are a football support, made up of all sorts - even c"ntcillors. That's what makes football great - not the c"ntcillors; however they do act as the benchmark of our indefatigable tolerance. There is a stark difference between genuine concern from the rank and file and creepy b'st'rts damaging the club for their own personal crusade. However, on the point of saying things to peoples faces, perhaps the Tile Bar Freedom Fighters would care to meet with REA at some point to discuss their opinion on the CIC and his credentials in person. More than happy to sit in on the meeting if required. Spirit of 77 does raise an interesting point though. Why can't SMiSA or FOSMA or one of the buses form a CIC and takeover the club? Quite simple really it is credability foremost, but also contacts. You can put together the best business case for it on the planet, but it takes contacts and credability for organisations to part with significant sums of money. I wouldn't trust most Saints supporters with a pub kitty let alone £2M. I understand your POV on the personal insults Sid, but if there's no forum guidelines, it's verbal anarchy on any forum, and all that happens is that genuine debate on any subject goes down the pan amid unchecked insult and worse.... if last season's Neil Lennon internet postings are anything to go by. Div will know better than anyone - we need guidelines, these days police and court action is a genuine possibility if the online 'banter' gets out of hand. I think what Feegie Saint said was out of order towards one of our club directors. If anyone thinks that makes me some sort of old fuddy duddy goody two shoes REA arse licker - that's their problem, not mine. As I said, wouldn't have mattered who it was directed at within the club, it surely isn't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 If you have a problem with that, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Or you could visit: Ah'll Burst You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Or you could visit: Ah'll Burst You! It's hard to take that post seriously, coming from someone with an avatar like yours. Edit: Square go behind the bikesheds 4pm. I'm bringing my mates, they're bigger than your mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) I understand your POV on the personal insults Sid, but if there's no forum guidelines, it's verbal anarchy on any forum, and all that happens is that genuine debate on any subject goes down the pan amid unchecked insult and worse.... if last season's Neil Lennon internet postings are anything to go by. Div will know better than anyone - we need guidelines, these days police and court action is a genuine possibility if the online 'banter' gets out of hand. I think what Feegie Saint said was out of order towards one of our club directors. If anyone thinks that makes me some sort of old fuddy duddy goody two shoes REA arse licker - that's their problem, not mine. As I said, wouldn't have mattered who it was directed at within the club, it surely isn't right. The new structure is going to be a step change. For too long St Mirren has been a closed shop of unreachable and unanswerable to the support Board members and their hingers on. The days of tie wearing w@nkers swanning about the club like they own it will be long gone. Every supporter no matter their ability to 'lucidate their opinions deserves to be heard. What will need to happen is more care being taken to ensure that their concerns are understood rather than dismissed? It is all too easy for the c"ntcil customer service department to cry "verbal abuse" and completely dismiss the concerns of someone who no doubt has a genuine issue or concern. If the CIC model is to work the effort must be made for everyone to have their concerns and more importantly their desires for the club known. One of my biggest concerns is the current dichotomy, which is driving the debate. I said very early on that the debate should be about what we want and hope for our club. Currently it is being hijacked by elements intent in stopping that happening. Whether we like what people say or not doesn't matter, trying to blank them is pointless. What should be happening is challenging them to speak to the people that can help deliver their dreams and aspirations for the club. If all they want is to gossip and slate those that can help them then that will be everyone's loss not just theirs. REA is a big boy - as you very well know ......and can handle a bit of ill-thought out abuse. Better we try and get them talking about what they want, rather than slate them for how they present their opinion. Edited August 1, 2011 by St. Sid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 REA is a big boy - as you very well know ......and can handle a bit of ill-thought out abuse. Better we try and get them talking about what they want, rather than slate them for how they present their opinion. I think it's pretty clear that you could ask some posters what they want (from the CIC that is), and the answer would simply be they want the God botherer and his cronies to get tae' fcuk out of their fitba' club. Best of luck arguing against that mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 I think it's pretty clear that you could ask some posters what they want (from the CIC that is), and the answer would simply be they want the God botherer and his cronies to get tae' fcuk out of their fitba' club. Best of luck arguing against that mate. Haven't heard anyone say that so far. Just a few people expressing concern and always from a position of ignorance. Except the creepy crusading types of course - but they have been dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Haven't heard anyone say that so far. Just a few people expressing concern and always from a position of ignorance. Except the creepy crusading types of course - but they have been dealt with. Ach well, I'm personally not on any sort of creepy crusade either for or against the CIC. I just happen to like the idea and think it is worth backing to give it a fighting chance of success. Should it come to fruition, to actively wish it to fail is like wishing St Mirren to lose, just so it might hasten the departure of a particular manager you personally don't rate. All I ever want is for St Mirren to win, on and off the field. No matter who is in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Ha, ha.... Loving it the pro CiC brigade getting all "mariah carey" because them bad boys that are the anti CiC gang won't let them have it all their own way. On a seperate note sent a message to the club secretary asking if they want to comment on these allegations of fraud at each home game. see what they say should be fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 You know this for a fact? I would think schools would have a job distributing tickets while all the staff are on holiday> More likely free tickets given out from many summer football camps they have on the go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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