Syria - Regime Change, 9/11 Or What

[murray street]

Looks like we're due another war.

Will we learn the lessons from both Iraq wars and Afghanistan?

David Cameron seems to be, he is not going to make this decision via a Kitchen Cabinet like Blair.

This one is a whole lot more complex, the whole region could explode.

I don't want to see British Soldiers dying there week in week out for a decade.

However, chemical attacks cannot be allowed to continue on the Syrian people.

[saint in exile]

This has all the hallmarks of another Iraq, unfortunately. While it seems clear that chemical weapons were used, it's less than clear at the moment that the Assad regime were the guilty party. The Syrian PM has suggested that the US is only getting involved to keep Israel quiet. The Israelis are worried about possible WMD on their doorstep and wouldn't be slow in taking action if they had to, and the West doesn't want that as it would only unite the Muslim world. With the Syrians such close allies with Iran, the whole thing could spiral out of control very quickly.

[FS]

It's going to get very f*cking ugly, that's for sure. Might be best to leave them to it, despite my utter disgust at the use of chemical weapons on innocent civilians. Too many grey areas to be settled before sending a task force in, but if the Israelis get involved we're looking at an all out east v west 'holy war'. To reiterate, it's shaping up to be very messy, WW3 here we come...

[murray street]

The USA is the leader of the free world, we are inextricably linked to them so anything they do we have to be seen to aid and support them. Even if there is no invasion or war, those responsible for the chemical weapons attacks have to be found and held responsible, never allowed to do it again.

Edited August 27, 2013 by murray street

[saintnextlifetime]

It's going to get very f*cking ugly, that's for sure. Might be best to leave them to it, despite my utter disgust at the use of chemical weapons on innocent civilians. Too many grey areas to be settled before sending a task force in, but if the Israelis get involved we're looking at an all out east v west 'holy war'. To reiterate, it's shaping up to be very messy, WW3 here we come...

I don't see how it is any of our business. From what I've see/heard from the experts , it isn't even conclusive that chemical weapons were used. Syria has a decent armed forces but has no oil nor do they grow vast quantities of skag , these are the factors that might yet keep us oot. .

[Guest TPAFKATS]

UK still trying to kid on we are big players on the world stage - need to realise the empire is gone. Good reason for independence - not getting involved in trying to sort out the muslim worlds sectarian conflicts

[nedflanders123]

Looks like we're due another war.

Will we learn the lessons from both Iraq wars and Afghanistan?

David Cameron seems to be, he is not going to make this decision via a Kitchen Cabinet like Blair.

This one is a whole lot more complex, the whole region could explode.

I don't want to see British Soldiers dying there week in week out for a decade.

However, chemical attacks cannot be allowed to continue on the Syrian people.

Personally, without UN backing we should not go head first into another conflict. Humanitarian aid and support is fine but we do not need another Iraq or Afghanistan - just look at the legacy of our military actions there and the cost in human life and resources. I completely understand the horror of what is going on there but who put us in charge of sorting the world's problems out? USA lead and we are close behind. If the UN sanction a form of action then we have a mandate of sorts and likely that others will be there along with USA and Britain.

Funny how we do not react the same way to the many thousands dying in North Korea. Is that because they have an army of over 3m soliders and lots of military might?

I condemn what is happening there as much as what Sadam did in Iraq to the Kurds but military force will simply bring the Chinese and Russians into conflict just as they are warning this evening.

[exiledfan]

The United Nations need to act and show that use of chemical war fare and what ammounts to mass murder is not on. What would have happened if hitler was left too it?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Looks like Cameron is backing away from a vote tomorrow - he either knows he aint gonna win it or he's waiting to see what the big boys club in Washington decide on.

The longer this goes on the less convinced I am that assad's regime was responsible for this event that seems to have escalated events to their current status.

[BuddieinEK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z09r1Jvavk

WILL WE EVER LISTEN?
In the light of what is happening in Syria, this clip has never been more relevant!
Go on... 2 minutes of your time... and if it doesn't challenge you, then I apologise for wasting your time. We are quick to share all the trash of the day on Facebook and football forums... ... but will we share something that might prick the conscience?

This clip is from the amazing 2004 film... Hotel Rwanda... based on a true story set during the Rwandan genocide (only the UN never actually called it that... only admitting that there had been "acts of genocide"!!!).

In this clip, Don Cheadle (playing Paul Rusesabagina) has seen footage of a violent machete attack and knows that it will appear on the main news in the West... ... The brilliant but almost unrecognisable Joaquin Phoenix, playing the part of the photographer Jack Daglish who captured the chilling footage asks challengingly how Paul will react if the West doesn't intervene after witnessing the footage... ... ... ... the quotes speak for themselves:

Paul: "How can they NOT intervene when they witness such atrocities?"

Jack: "I think, if people see this footage, they'll say 'Oh my God' that's horrible... ... and then go on eating their dinners!"

For me, Jack has it spot on... live footage of atrocities hasn't angered us or spurred us into action... only made us insensitive to it and able to switch off at will.

I know the question but I have NO idea to the solution... I only know that I am tired of my own and my nations apathy to the suffering of others when we collectively could make a difference.

Anyway... ... go on eating your dinner... sorry to have disturbed you.

Reality TV should be entertaining, not challenging like it is in the REAL world!

[Guest TPAFKATS]

BuddieinEK - what difference do you think we could or indeed should make in Syria?

[BuddieinEK]

BuddieinEK - what difference do you think we could or indeed should make in Syria?

As a country with weapons... we could only make things worse as per our track record!

As collective individuals... I truly have no idea but welcome suggestions.

[saintnextlifetime]

The United Nations need to act and show that use of chemical war fare and what ammounts to mass murder is not on. What would have happened if hitler was left too it?

Left to what?

The Iran/Iraq war lasted 8yrs with the frequent use of chemical warfare and apart from America supplying Iraq at times the West never got involved. .

[murray street]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

[Guest somner9]

Fur f**ks sake don't shout about it from the main stand this weekend or it'll be cheese rolls and cold tea for breakfast in the mill street cafe'

[Sonny]

The UN has the mandate to police the world not the f**kin US of A whose only interst is the US of A.

Let the UN decide what happens.

[Seaside Nipper]

Acht, Britain's involvement here .............all it will serve is some justification for Trident replacement to be unambiguously sanctioned. Some deflection , some mock horror at collateral damage, some soundbites about boots on the ground, then, Successor Policy closure.....................must be time soon for tiffin old boy

[No Ninjas]

Edited out.

Edited August 29, 2013 by No Ninjas

[Denbud]

I don't see how it is any of our business. From what I've see/heard from the experts , it isn't even conclusive that chemical weapons were used. Syria has a decent armed forces but has no oil nor do they grow vast quantities of skag , these are the factors that might yet keep us oot. .

Don't tell my better half theres no oil in Syria, I spent six years on a drilling rig there. I have alot of time for the ordinary syrian and indeed the ordinary Iraq's (whatever the plural of iraqs citizens are) when I worked there. In my opinion however as long as the religion of the area prevails I dont think that there will ever really be peace. The religion is designed to keep the ordinary guy in a state of poverty the whole of the region is extremely corrupt, rich getting richer etc.

Even giving aid to the region prior to any civil disturbance was corrupt, as mentioned I worked in the oil fields and our camp boss (head of catering and welfare) was buying things like bags of rice on the open marked with the legend 'a gift from unicef' on it and corned beef with ' a gift from the people of the european union' on it.

best to sit back and be prepared to help the ones we can (only my opinion)when i say sit back I mean dont send in troops on a what I would consider a futile operation but use whatever political/trade means possible to bring down another tyranical regime

[Guest somner9]

Don't tell my better half theres no oil in Syria, I spent six years on a drilling rig there. I have alot of time for the ordinary syrian and indeed the ordinary Iraq's (whatever the plural of iraqs citizens are) when I worked there. In my opinion however as long as the religion of the area prevails I dont think that there will ever really be peace. The religion is designed to keep the ordinary guy in a state of poverty the whole of the region is extremely corrupt, rich getting richer etc.

Even giving aid to the region prior to any civil disturbance was corrupt, as mentioned I worked in the oil fields and our camp boss (head of catering and welfare) was buying things like bags of rice on the open marked with the legend 'a gift from unicef' on it and corned beef with ' a gift from the people of the european union' on it.

best to sit back and be prepared to help the ones we can (only my opinion)when i say sit back I mean dont send in troops on a what I would consider a futile operation but use whatever political/trade means possible to bring down another tyranical regime

Maybe thats why we keep ending up with sub-standard first division players..? Bags of Tumshies must be turning up at the Ralston kitchen with 'A gift from the people of Cowdenbeith' written on them? And Danny's playing them instead of peeling them?

[oaksoft]

As a country with weapons... we could only make things worse as per our track record!

As collective individuals... I truly have no idea but welcome suggestions.

We could sign an international treaty with every other nation to stop selling chemical weapons to other countries in the first place.

That's the only way we, as a nation, can sleep easily at night.

Selling the weapons and then getting involved because you don't like how they use them is hypocrisy and cowardice in equal measure.

We have to stop trying to deal with symptoms and identify and fix the cause of these problems.

Edited August 29, 2013 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

The United Nations need to act and show that use of chemical war fare and what ammounts to mass murder is not on. What would have happened if hitler was left too it?

Hitler would have been nowhere if the winners of the 1st world war hadn't created the environment for people like that to flourish.

[oaksoft]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

If only the west HAD done nothing to cause the problem maybe Cameron's moral crusade against Syria would have some credibility.

We have blood on our hands over this as with virtually every conflict in the world since 1800.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Don't tell my better half theres no oil in Syria, I spent six years on a drilling rig there. I have alot of time for the ordinary syrian and indeed the ordinary Iraq's (whatever the plural of iraqs citizens are) when I worked there. In my opinion however as long as the religion of the area prevails I dont think that there will ever really be peace. The religion is designed to keep the ordinary guy in a state of poverty the whole of the region is extremely corrupt, rich getting richer etc.

Even giving aid to the region prior to any civil disturbance was corrupt, as mentioned I worked in the oil fields and our camp boss (head of catering and welfare) was buying things like bags of rice on the open marked with the legend 'a gift from unicef' on it and corned beef with ' a gift from the people of the european union' on it.

best to sit back and be prepared to help the ones we can (only my opinion)when i say sit back I mean dont send in troops on a what I would consider a futile operation but use whatever political/trade means possible to bring down another tyranical regime

I understand your point but you say that's true of the "western" world as well

[Guest TPAFKATS]

If we get involved in Syria due to "morals", shouldn't we already be involved in Egypt?