The Referendum Thread

[Stuart Dickson]

650 MP's only 59 are Scottish. It's ok though as the city of Westminster still has it undemocratic regulator MP.

I assume you refer to Scotland as not being your country on purpose?

I've shown you that in terms of ratio of population Scotland is actually OVER represented. Are you struggling with that notion? The population of the UK is 63.35m, Scotland has only 5.295m of that. On a strict per head of population basis Scotland should only have 54 MP's.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

How the f**k would you know?

Cause I could understand it.....

[Stuart Dickson]

Most of the rich estate owners of Scotland, don't live there as they're foreigners.

Surely, as I'm not allowed to vote, they cannae either?

Or is Eck counting them in for it?

Dunno, it was Tony who was making the argument for dividing the number of MP constituencies by land mass. It seems really strange that he would think that Glasgow should have just 1 MP whilst the Pentlands hills - for example - should be similarly represented. But then those Natsi's always did have a strange notion of democracy.

[salmonbuddie]

Most of the rich estate owners of Scotland, don't live there as they're foreigners.

Surely, as I'm not allowed to vote, they cannae either?

Or is Eck counting them in for it?

It's not hard (and you know the answer), if they're registered to vote in Scotland, they get a vote. Are you registered to vote in Scotland?

I'm staying with one of 8 cousins out in Oz at the moment, bluto, 6 born in Scotland and all with British passports. None of them think they're entitled to a vote for the simple reason thst they're not registered to vote in Scotland - they get it, why do you insist on repeating it? Incidentally, they're all pro-Yes so maybe a good thing for the Naw camp that they can't vote!

That's not to say you're not entitled to air your views but you really need to accept that (almost) everyone thinks that this is the only sensible way to conduct things.

My cousins also seem to have grasped quite easily what the options would be for passport renewal in the event of independence.

[salmonbuddie]

Let me precis this for those who have you on ignore:

Maybe it's just me but I can't understand why there are still people out there who are considering voting Yes.

The White Paper on Independence cited three central planks to Scotland's future.

1. We would be admitted to the EU

2. We would be using the £

3. We will join NATO.

Now, starting in reverse order.

3. Bollox

2. Sterling..more bollox.

1. EU Membership. Even more bollox

Edited August 18, 2014 by salmonbuddie

[salmonbuddie]

http://www.scotecon.org/pdf/SES-Indy-ebook.pdf

After some dafty tried to get everyone to view the Wee Blue Book, written by some odious individual from Bath who has promised to quit Scotland if Scotland doesn't vote Yes here is some reading for grown ups.

This book is a balanced representation of the facts, and figures, of the Economic Consequences of Scottish Independence. For an economics book it's reasonably easy to follow and it's conclusions look fairly damaging for my continued assertions regarding the results of the banking crisis if Scotland had been independent

Nothing in it we weren't aware of and nothing to frighten anyone. Except as noted above, obviously.

[salmonbuddie]

Double post, sorry!

Edited August 18, 2014 by salmonbuddie

[Stuart Dickson]

Nothing in it we weren't aware of and nothing to frighten anyone. Except as noted above, obviously.

Really? So you are happy to accept it as accurate then?

Will I go through it point by point? Perhaps you can tell me why we shouldn't be frightened of the conclusion on Page 99 of the report on Pensions where it says - and I'll quote

In the case of a Yes vote, the Scottish Government has indicated that it would

provide a slightly more generous State Pension, and delay the UK Government’s

planned rise in the State Pension age to 67 by around eight years. The

more generous State Pension will affect the affordability challenge posed by

an ageing population and would have to be funded through general

taxation.

Affordability will also be affected by the fact that Scotland has a higher

proportion of public sector workers and a more rapidly ageing population.

Under current arrangements, shortfalls in Scotland’s unfunded pension

schemes are met through UK taxation, whereas under independence, shortfalls

would clearly have to be met through Scottish tax receipts alone.

Just so I can clarify, you are saying you were aware of this and the underfunding of the post Independence State Pension does not worry you and that you would be happy to pay a much higher rate of tax to resolve the issue?

Edited August 18, 2014 by Stuart Dickson

[salmonbuddie]

Says the man who got it completely wrong about the banking crisis.

[RickMcD]

Says the man who got it completely wrong about the banking crisis.

Yep, that's Alex Salmond for you.

[beyond our ken]

Do any of those places have populations bigger than Paisley?

If you are interested, look it up.

Given the financial stability of some of those places, it should be argued that as smaller places than Scotland the freedom they have to set rules and systems, coupled with their inherent lack of natural assets, they are a model for how Scotland will prosper on it's own.

[bluto]

It's not hard (and you know the answer), if they're registered to vote in Scotland, they get a vote. Are you registered to vote in Scotland?

I'm staying with one of 8 cousins out in Oz at the moment, bluto, 6 born in Scotland and all with British passports. None of them think they're entitled to a vote for the simple reason thst they're not registered to vote in Scotland - they get it, why do you insist on repeating it?

That's not to say you're not entitled to air your views but you really need to accept that (almost) everyone thinks that this is the only sensible way to conduct things.

Well... It seems only Nationalist Scotland think it a 'sensible' way to operate such an important vote. All the French people living and working in the UK are able to participate in their country's democracy. But Scots are shut out of their democracy. You seem happy to revert to the historically iniquitous "votes dependent on owning property"...

I work and spend about 6 months of the year in Scotland, (I'm currently in Paisley), contribute to the economy, consider myself a Scot, sound helluva Scottish to all who know me, travel all over Scotland much, much more than 99% of Scots, know more about it than most... And yet I'm not Scottish enough.

If I'd bought several properties, I could have registered one as my domicile for the required time but that would not have rendered me more Scottish.

(as an averagely wealthy Londoner, naturally I could easily purchase Perthshire, for instance).

[beyond our ken]

Well... It seems only Nationalist Scotland think it a 'sensible' way to operate such an important vote. All the French people living and working in the UK are able to participate in their country's democracy. But Scots are shut out of their democracy. You seem happy to revert to the historically iniquitous "votes dependent on owning property"...

I work and spend about 6 months of the year in Scotland, (I'm currently in Paisley), contribute to the economy, consider myself a Scot, sound helluva Scottish to all who know me, travel all over Scotland much, much more than 99% of Scots, know more about it than most... And yet I'm not Scottish enough.

If I'd bought several properties, I could have registered one as my domicile for the required time but that would not have rendered me more Scottish.

(as an averagely wealthy Londoner, naturally I could easily purchase Perthshire, for instance).

You made a choice to move to another UK constituency, giving you a referendum vote would be like giving you a vote for Renrewshire council elections becuae you watch fitba there or voting for a highlands and islands MP becuaue you once had a dump in Stornoway. It just wouldn't be democtratic.

[oaksoft]

You do. 63.35m is the population of the UK. 650 MP's. That's an average of 1 MP to every 97,000 people.

Scotlands population is 5.295m, represented by 59 MP's. Thats an average of 1 MP to every 89,000 people.

Instead of Scottish MPs representing 9% of all MPs making decisions about Scotland in the UK, Scottish MPs will represent 100% of all MPs making decisions about Scotland after independence.

That's the only comparison which is meaningful.

[oaksoft]

Also... I think you're deliberately missing the point I made....

Which is...

... the current proportional representation of Scots in the Uk parliament is bigger than any Potential representation of Scots in a European Parliament.

What is the logic behind comparing those two numbers?

The vast majority of our laws are made in the UK.

Our tax is set and gathered here.

Or are you trying to claim we'll be handing over everything to Brussels and be handed pocket money?

[oaksoft]

I've shown you that in terms of ratio of population Scotland is actually OVER represented. Are you struggling with that notion?

Is anyone having trouble comparing 9% representation with 100% representation and working out which is the bigger number?

[northendsaint]

Dunno, it was Tony who was making the argument for dividing the number of MP constituencies by land mass. It seems really strange that he would think that Glasgow should have just 1 MP whilst the Pentlands hills - for example - should be similarly represented. But then those Natsi's always did have a strange notion of democracy.

Your continued use of the natsi word is getting on my nerves Stuart.Please cut it out as its not clever.I will not be voting for Salmond or the SNP but for a fairer independent Scotland on September 18th.A country free of Westminster administration.As big Boris(soon to be prime minister of the rest of the UK )has classed the referendum as the peasants revolt I find it difficult to fathom out how anybody would want to remain in the UK.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Dunno, it was Tony who was making the argument for dividing the number of MP constituencies by land mass. It seems really strange that he would think that Glasgow should have just 1 MP whilst the Pentlands hills - for example - should be similarly represented. But then those Natsi's always did have a strange notion of democracy.

I wasn't making an argument, I was pointing out that there are many other ways to look at the distribution of Mp's as opposed to the selective way that you chose.

Who are these Natsi's you keep referring to?

[bluto]

You made a choice to move to another UK constituency, giving you a referendum vote would be like giving you a vote for Renrewshire council elections becuae you watch fitba there or voting for a highlands and islands MP becuaue you once had a dump in Stornoway. It just wouldn't be democtratic.

This is about something a little more palpable than council elections. It's about the potential demise of a nation. Not so easily dismissed....

So your response indicates that it IS only Nationalists that don't want ALL Scots to participate in a vote that impacts on all their futures.

That does seem Nationalist... In the political sense.

[bluto]

Your continued use of the natsi word is getting on my nerves Stuart.Please cut it out as its not clever.I will not be voting for Salmond or the SNP but for a fairer independent Scotland on September 18th.A country free of Westminster administration.As big Boris(soon to be prime minister of the rest of the UK )has classed the referendum as the peasants revolt I find it difficult to fathom out how anybody would want to remain in the UK.

Sticks and stanes, big yin. I wouldn't let Herr Dixon OR Boris wind me up....

And no matter what the vote is, Scotland will still be heavily influenced by a Westminster administration. And especially via this half-hearted bollox offered up by the SNP aka the Scottish Government.

Edited August 18, 2014 by bluto

[northendsaint]

Sticks and stanes, big yin. I wouldn't let Herr Dixon OR Boris wind me up....

And no matter what the vote is, Scotland will still be heavily influenced by a Westminster administration. And especially via this half-hearted bollox offered up by the SNP aka the Scottish Government.

First thing I will be voting for is getting rid of Salmond.Yes please.

[bluto]

First thing I will be voting for is getting rid of Salmond.Yes please.

It's a start.

But missing that bus last time got the country into this expensive mess...

Still... All will be back to normal, by the end of September... :

[salmonbuddie]

Yep, that's Alex Salmond for you.

StuD is really wee Eck? Who knew!

Elaborate, what did Salmond get wrong DURING or AFTER the banking crisis?

[faraway saint]

If the "Yes" vote wins will this have some effect on my Sky Sports subscription?

Careful answer, this could sway me one way or the other.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

The report comes as it was announced that potential oil and gas discoveries off the west coast of Scotland are to be examined in a partnership between the Scottish Government, industry and academics.

Areas including the Solway Firth, the Firth of Clyde, the North Channel and the Sea of the Hebrides will be the focus of the study.

Only around 20 exploration wells have been drilled off the west coast of the mainland, compared to the thousands drilled in the north and north east of the country.

The N-56 report was welcomed by the First Minister.

Alex Salmond said: “This substantial new report from a leading business organisation blows another huge hole in the credibility of the OBR’s oil forecasts, especially as it comes just days after esteemed Scottish economist, Professor Sir Donald Mackay, said the OBR’s calculations were ‘precisely wrong’ and ‘hopelessly at sea’.

“The report also endorses the Scottish Government’s plans to set up an energy fund - something Westminster have consistently failed to do to the great detriment of current and future generations.

“Instead of continuing to talk down Scotland’s oil and gas sector, the No campaign should acknowledge that the sector has a bright future ahead of it.

“With a Yes vote in September we will be able to ensure that the sector benefits from a more stable taxation regime instead of being subject to surprise Treasury tax grabs - maximising the jobs that the industry creates and revenue for the long-term, and ensuring that Scotland’s resources are used to the full benefit of the people of Scotland.”