BaldyOzBud Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 We were talking about history - however if you want to talk about current affairs the fact that the UK is our major export market by a f**king huge margin is probably as good a reason as any to focus on the political union we are currently in. Especially since Europe appears to be heading back into recession while the UK has strong growth and a very good economic outlook. If we were ever talking about a properly independent Scotland then I'd agree with the rest of your points, but the "independence" on offer see's us tied to a currency we can't control, in a political union where we'll be dictated to on all matters whether you want to talk about fishing quota's, our taxation policy, or law, and we're talking about joining NATO where we'll be dragged into exactly the kind of wars that nationalists claim would be a thing of the past post "independence". Our "independence" would be nothing like Norway - the country Salmond likes to claim we'd be like. They've got control of their own currency, their own monarchy and they listened when their population told them they didn't want to be members of the EU. You talk about "scaremongering" but you totally miss the point. We know what we have now - both good and bad - to be sold on a leap of faith more people have to be convinced that it won't have a detrimental effect on our living standards. Take a look at the White Paper, or anything the Yes Campaign has produced and tell me - apart from their scaremongering about the "austerity" that has never happened and the privatisation of the NHS that is completely devolved - what have they produced that is concrete proof we'll all be better off. Scaremongering? show me where I mentioned that. And which political union will be dictating our fishing quotas? I remember you BT's telling us we wou;ldn't be part of the EU so who are setting our fishing quota's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Funnily enough the history you were talking about is a very convenient picking and choosing, the history is just that, HISTORY, it has nothing at all to do with the PRESENT, which is where ( and when) we are now living, the only "scaremongering" is coming from you and your ilk, who are still forecasting doom and gloom for an independent Scotland based on the utter bawbaggery that is being espoused by Unionists who are so sure that Scotland is a basket case, but are fighting tooth and nail to keep us in the union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Scaremongering? show me where I mentioned that. And which political union will be dictating our fishing quotas? I remember you BT's telling us we wou;ldn't be part of the EU so who are setting our fishing quota's? Where did I say that? I actually said that there was no chance that the UK would leave the EU and I published a list of improbabilities that would have to happen before the UK did leave the EU. If we were to leave the EU then we wouldn't be tied by their fishing quota's, however in the current arrangement the UK retails three different types of Veto's that allows us to knock back anything ridiculous that the EU try to force on us. Scotland won't have that protection after "independence" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 We were talking about history - however if you want to talk about current affairs the fact that the UK is our major export market by a f**king huge margin is probably as good a reason as any to focus on the political union we are currently in. Especially since Europe appears to be heading back into recession while the UK has strong growth and a very good economic outlook. If we were ever talking about a properly independent Scotland then I'd agree with the rest of your points, but the "independence" on offer see's us tied to a currency we can't control, in a political union where we'll be dictated to on all matters whether you want to talk about fishing quota's, our taxation policy, or law, and we're talking about joining NATO where we'll be dragged into exactly the kind of wars that nationalists claim would be a thing of the past post "independence". Our "independence" would be nothing like Norway - the country Salmond likes to claim we'd be like. They've got control of their own currency, their own monarchy and they listened when their population told them they didn't want to be members of the EU. You talk about "scaremongering" but you totally miss the point. We know what we have now - both good and bad - to be sold on a leap of faith more people have to be convinced that it won't have a detrimental effect on our living standards. Take a look at the White Paper, or anything the Yes Campaign has produced and tell me - apart from their scaremongering about the "austerity" that has never happened and the privatisation of the NHS that is completely devolved - what have they produced that is concrete proof we'll all be better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 First line of the last paragraph Stuart, now read my previous post and tell me where I talked about scaremongering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Yeh that is right , I remember Siddelly mentioning that , a wee while back . .Imagine that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 The Naysayers are just deflecting again and trying to get it round to ethnic nationalism, once again. It's strange how the no campaign always bring up foreigners and how we are so different. Seems British Nationalism really is a different kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Where did I say that? I actually said that there was no chance that the UK would leave the EU and I published a list of improbabilities that would have to happen before the UK did leave the EU. If we were to leave the EU then we wouldn't be tied by their fishing quota's, however in the current arrangement the UK retails three different types of Veto's that allows us to knock back anything ridiculous that the EU try to force on us. Scotland won't have that protection after "independence" Qotas, not quota's; and vetoes, not veto's. If the UK retails(sic) three different types of vetoes, do you think they might sell them to an independent Scotland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) First line of the last paragraph Stuart, now read my previous post and tell me where I talked about scaremongeringYou talked about forecasting doom and gloom. I do think a n Independent Scotland would have a gloomy future but your fellow Nats would write off all my legitimate concerns as scaremongering. Perhaps I jumped on a page..... Edited August 16, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 A strong common interest in football, and a now defunct Empire, is hardly a basis for a political union, and the fascist dictatorships that you speak of are long gone in most of Europe, fear of independence is what seems to drive most of the BT campaign, and a strong ( financially and politically ) independent Scotland is a better option, in my opinion, than being the largely ignored and constantly marginalised northern sector of the Union, which has been ruled for too long by political parties which are in a vast minority in Scotland. Sounds pretty accurate , to me . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoWSaint Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Is it safe to assume that Australia and the USA are putting plans together to rejoin British rule since they both think independence is so bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Qotas, not quota's; and vetoes, not veto's. If the UK retails(sic) three different types of vetoes, do you think they might sell them to an independent Scotland? If ye're gaunie nitpick on obvious typos such as - retails instead of retains - ye really ought to ensure ye spell Quotas correctly. It's great to be smug, but it's better to be accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepaisleypanda Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 tied to a currency we can't control, in a political union where we'll be dictated to on all matters whether you want to talk about fishing quota's, our taxation policy, or law, and we're talking about joining NATO where we'll be dragged into exactly the kind of wars that nationalists claim would be a thing of the past It's not often I agree with Dickson, but... ISN'T THAT WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW???.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 It's not often I agree with Dickson, but... ISN'T THAT WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW???....NO.There is Scottish representation STILL at the heart of government decision making as there has been for centuries. This wouldn't be the case in Europe. Scotland would be an even wee-er fish in an even bigger pond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepaisleypanda Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 NO. There is Scottish representation STILL at the heart of government decision making as there has been for centuries. This wouldn't be the case in Europe. Scotland would be an even wee-er fish in an even bigger pond. What "representation" do we get exactly? YOU are one of the more intelligent posters on this thread, so, I know - you know I could throw lots of bmps / jpgs etc back - so, I wont! Should we not be allowed to determine ourselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 NO. There is Scottish representation STILL at the heart of government decision making as there has been for centuries. This wouldn't be the case in Europe. Scotland would be an even wee-er fish in an even bigger pond. so please justify the fact that westminster has taken a european subsidy intended to support scottish agricultural development and spent it across the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepaisleypanda Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) How do we know that? PS: The Wings over Scotland target of £25k in ten days (launched today) has been met in 3 hours! It's now sitting at £47000 !!! - STUNNING https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-hit-the-streets Just checked it again that's FIFTY THREE THOUSAND POUNDS - in less than 2 days! Is Dickson still telling us that this movement isn't happening? Or, that http://wingsoverscotland.com/ is not significant? (Despite what the official YES camp may report) This campaign isn't about YesScotland (love'em) or Blair Jenkins, or Alex Salmond! This is OUR referendum! Edited August 16, 2014 by thepaisleypanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 What "representation" do we get exactly? YOU are one of the more intelligent posters on this thread, so, I know - you know I could throw lots of bmps / jpgs etc back - so, I wont! Should we not be allowed to determine ourselves? Danny Alexander for starters. (I know, I know but I have to get off to work).My point (and it seems to be the same as Herr Dixon's, I know, I know.... ) is that Scots ARE already represented in Parliament and proportionally so, more powerfully than will ever be the case of wee Scotland in big Europe. This will be a vote for less representation and less say at a bigger table.... If/when Scotland get intae the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) so please justify the fact that westminster has taken a european subsidy intended to support scottish agricultural development and spent it across the UKI don't know that is a fact, so I couldn't attempt justification.I expect there's a perfectly rational explanation for it though your depiction of that explanation may be a wee bit skewed. Some of us have got work to go to. Edited August 17, 2014 by bluto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I don't know that as a fact, is couldn't attempt justification. I expect there's a perfectly rational explanation for it though your depiction of that explanation may be a wee bit skewed. Some of us have got work to go to. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I don't know that as a fact, is couldn't attempt justification. I expect there's a perfectly rational explanation for it though your depiction of that explanation may be a wee bit skewed. Some of us have got work to go to. It was pretty well publicised that as scottish farmers receive the lowest prices and subsidy in the EU, extra funds were given to the UK government to be used to address the difference. These funds have been evenly distributed across the UK and were not ring fenced. so tell us, how did carmichael, or alexander, or moore, (all from constituencies where there is a significant agricultural industry) represent scotland? Fact is, scottish politicians in london follow the party line which is most definitely NOT representative of the wants and needs of scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Hostilities are on the way in the event of a NO vote click the link and see UK debt rise in real time http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Hostilities are on the way in the event of a NO vote click the link and see UK debt rise in real time http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Suppose the more you say it it'll seem like the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Suppose the more you say it it'll seem like the truth. http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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