Dave The Buddie Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Two seasons ago we were playing some of the best football I have ever seen. Not only that we had our highest top league finish in about 20 odd years. It was fantastic and sure we made mistakes and got punished but that was Danny's philosophy his way he feels the game should be played. I agreed and bought into that. Start of 2012/13 season Danny comes out and says we are developing a different method of play (direct to Thommo) to be able to mix it up when needed. We start the season the same way we finished the 2011 season and we have a couple of bad results a minority of fans moaning about our passing strategy wanting more urgency. Then all of a sudden we are playing the style of football Gus had us playing and Danny did in his first season. Rubbish Now we are season and a half on and despite the change of style we are worse off in league position and entertainment. So Danny if this to be your last season with us please revert to season 2 philosophy and get back to the patient, possession passing football that we had and if we end up in the playoffs then so be it we gave it a go and did it with style. It was successful for us two seasons ago it can be now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 We were playing good/attractive football at the start of the 2011/12 season and finished the first "quarter" in 6th position but other teams sussed the tactics out and it gradually became less effective. IIRC we remained in 6th place until the Ne'erday game against Kilmarnock - after that we were never really in contention for a Top Six place and slid down the league, the football might have remained attractive to you but it was clearly less effective and if it remained so at the start of the 2012/13 season was it really wrong to change it? Playing football the right way is a topic that's come up many times over the years in the media and on this site - to my mind it's a patronisong comment usually handed out as a reward to the losing manager/team. These days with every top league game being televised tactics are quickly sussed and managers have to be adept at the cat & mouse nature of the game over the course of a season - this is something I don't think Danny Lennon is particularly good at. Despite current form we're still currently 9th in the league so I reckon we must be above the position we were in when according to you Danny changed our style of play. Can we go back to the style of play you want, do we have the right players - I don't know. Personally I think Lennon main fault is that he wants to play attractive football too much eg trying to shoehorn Harkins & McGowan into the same team at the start of the season. I care less about the style of play than the results it produces I don't want to watch players playing passing football badly, at our level teams pass themselves into trouble more often than they deliver a killer blow. One thing we agree on is that Danny is not getting it right currently, let's hope this changes but my advice would be to stay away from the passing game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 BtB has largely saved me the bother of typing out much in the way of a reply to the OP. I was one of the people calling for a 'Plan B' after Danny's total football approach was rumbled by our opponents. It seems he developed a Plan B, but pretty much bagged Plan A in the process. For me, we require both Plan A AND Plan B, and to know when to mix it up a bit. This is where Danny falls short, in my opinion. He isn't cute enough in terms of mixing it up and catching the opposing team out by switching things about, or if he does,all too often it has the opposite of the desired effect (ie - we might be dominating a game, get a goal, then fall away due to a bit of baffling tinkering such as against Hearts at home, and QotS away recently). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I sense a wee spell of route 1 told you so condecention looming ........................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Philosophy.. In general, Saints fans seem to be pretty consistently Nihilists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Philosophy.. In general, Saints fans seem to be pretty consistently Nihilists... Not me, I prefer Winnie the Pooh to Jean-Paul Sartre - is there any more hunny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Not me, I prefer Winnie the Pooh to Jean-Paul Sartre - is there any more hunny? I won't even nibble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave The Buddie Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 We were playing good/attractive football at the start of the 2011/12 season and finished the first "quarter" in 6th position but other teams sussed the tactics out and it gradually became less effective. IIRC we remained in 6th place until the Ne'erday game against Kilmarnock - after that we were never really in contention for a Top Six place and slid down the league, the football might have remained attractive to you but it was clearly less effective and if it remained so at the start of the 2012/13 season was it really wrong to change it? Playing football the right way is a topic that's come up many times over the years in the media and on this site - to my mind it's a patronisong comment usually handed out as a reward to the losing manager/team. These days with every top league game being televised tactics are quickly sussed and managers have to be adept at the cat & mouse nature of the game over the course of a season - this is something I don't think Danny Lennon is particularly good at. Despite current form we're still currently 9th in the league so I reckon we must be above the position we were in when according to you Danny changed our style of play. Can we go back to the style of play you want, do we have the right players - I don't know. Personally I think Lennon main fault is that he wants to play attractive football too much eg trying to shoehorn Harkins & McGowan into the same team at the start of the season. I care less about the style of play than the results it produces I don't want to watch players playing passing football badly, at our level teams pass themselves into trouble more often than they deliver a killer blow. One thing we agree on is that Danny is not getting it right currently, let's hope this changes but my advice would be to stay away from the passing game. If it gets rumbled then you mix it up but don't totally abandon it. We have majority of the players still at the club. You have to work at style it takes time to perfect and should be ingrained throughout the club starting with the youth teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggie Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Never mind a change of philosophy, its a change of manager we need ! Three years too late, but better late etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave The Buddie Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Never mind a change of philosophy, its a change of manager we need ! Three years too late, but better late etc.. Who would you bring in? I hear Gus is still looking for a job Edited January 13, 2014 by Dave The Buddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Ninjas Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Remember the last time we played Thistle at Firhill..? (I do, I got in for nothing as it was Remembrance Sunday time of year) We let them play all the silky pass and move football and we took the three points and a three nil win. I don't care to remember how many times we have lost in the same way as PT did that day. I wasn't particularly enamoured with our style of play, but we showed that we were the mature and bedded-in top flight team. It is a results driven business, and grinding out ten consecutive 1-0 wins would put any team, bar Hearts, deep in to the top half of the league. Would the majority of fans prefer that to the silky, exciting, beautiful but ultimately unsucessful philosophy? I suspect that the vast majority would take ugly sucess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykey Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Return to passing game, return to 4-2-3-1 formation with Newton and McLean as the 2, and Campbell, McGowan, and McGinn up with Thommo. Have the under 20's play the same formation and tactics so that players progress to 1st team already knowing what's required. Return to black and white stripes with white trim and only change if playing away from home against a similar strip and finally return to winning games, preferably by 2 or more goals. Any manager doing all of the above should have his contract renewed and extended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave The Buddie Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Remember the last time we played Thistle at Firhill..? (I do, I got in for nothing as it was Remembrance Sunday time of year) We let them play all the silky pass and move football and we took the three points and a three nil win. I don't care to remember how many times we have lost in the same way as PT did that day. I wasn't particularly enamoured with our style of play, but we showed that we were the mature and bedded-in top flight team. It is a results driven business, and grinding out ten consecutive 1-0 wins would put any team, bar Hearts, deep in to the top half of the league. Would the majority of fans prefer that to the silky, exciting, beautiful but ultimately unsucessful philosophy? I suspect that the vast majority would take ugly sucess. When we played the passing style of football we achieved our highest points tally and league position in over 20 years. Our current style is not working. We should go back to 4-5-1 passing style with Gowser off of Thommo. Two wide players Teale when fit and another before the window shuts on the left. We are currently playing rubbish to watch football and not picking up points. Not had a shot on target in the last 2 games. It needs to change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggie Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Perish the thought ! he was even worse than Lennon, lol. One thing though, I will not be confident in our Board to choose someone competent, after the last three incumbents. Dont like to leap to conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibardfast Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Who would you bring in? I hear Gus is still looking for a job[/quotGet Murray from Dumbarton ASAP. We need a new young talented manager NOW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave The Buddie Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Who would you bring in? I hear Gus is still looking for a job[/quotGet Murray from Dumbarton ASAP. We need a new young talented manager NOW. Or why don't we back our current manager until the end of the season and review it then. The board have a massive couple of decisions to make this month. If they are to sack Danny which I wouldn't do they have to do it now to allow someone to come in and bring a couple of players in and get a couple out before the window shuts. Or they have to back the manager now by throwing caution to the wind and allow him to bring in one or two who he believes will keep us away from the playoff place then decide at the end of the season if they keep DL on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homesickbud Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 It's there a ex manager of St Mirren that anyone likes. I bet fergie got it tight when he was here. Some people will never be happy regardless whoever is manager!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave The Buddie Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 It's there a ex manager of St Mirren that anyone likes. I bet fergie got it tight when he was here. Some people will never be happy regardless whoever is manager!!! You so right he did. Some of our fans baffle me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 When we played the passing style of football we achieved our highest points tally and league position in over 20 years. Our current style is not working. We should go back to 4-5-1 passing style with Gowser off of Thommo. Two wide players Teale when fit and another before the window shuts on the left. We are currently playing rubbish to watch football and not picking up points. Not had a shot on target in the last 2 games. It needs to change Sorry to mention Bud, but Bahoken had 2 shots saved by Mannus in our last game. Just saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronaldo Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Not sure if its the way Danny sets us out to play or just that the players seem to be lacking spirit and confidence. Not beating hearts must have really got to the players as we are the only side that hasn't beaten them in a long time and that would have them questioning themselves. The most concerning thing at the moment though is the complete lack of options we have, the guys on the bench on Saturday don't offer a great deal. Teams around us have already went into the market and brought in a couple of very good players and they have improved and picked up points, we've shipped players out, brought in an untested striker and have went backwards again at an alarming rate. Saturday will be another very tough game and one we will lose unless the squad gets a lift and a couple of good players are added, not just added through panic (bahoken). Guys like Taylor that partick got are the guys we should be aiming for, he has proved he can score goals in division 1 so would have been worth a punt. I would hate to think that going into the last week of the window we are sitting with the current squad as that isn't good enough. Teams around are improving and we must follow suit or we will end up in the playoff no matter what philosophy we play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLBud Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 When we played the passing style of football we achieved our highest points tally and league position in over 20 years. Our current style is not working. We should go back to 4-5-1 passing style with Gowser off of Thommo. Two wide players Teale when fit and another before the window shuts on the left. We are currently playing rubbish to watch football and not picking up points. Not had a shot on target in the last 2 games. It needs to change The key difference in our style of play now is that we no longer build from the back. I can't recall exactly how many times I watched through my fingers as McAusland took a short pass from Samson and dithered before dropping a team mate in the shit with a poor pass during that time but there were a good few. Not blaming the player mind you as he was following his manager's instructions and trying to play football. We did have success with that style, that cannot be in question, but what is also true, as has been pointed out, is that teams sussed us out and started pressing us higher up the park which put an end to the build from the back philosophy and reintroduced "route one". Problem is you need pace to play 4-5-1 so the wide men can get down the flanks and turn it quickly into 4-3-3. We had success with Teale down the right and Isma had real joy drifting wide but we've had a succession of full back and central midfielders playing the wide roles this season and it simply doesn't work with Thommo often cutting an isolated figure up front. We're a lightweight team who have very little pace and are now lacking in confidence. Not a great combo and I'm slowly coming round to the idea that what we need to change is not so much the style of play but the manager, sad to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave The Buddie Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) The key difference in our style of play now is that we no longer build from the back. I can't recall exactly how many times I watched through my fingers as McAusland took a short pass from Samson and dithered before dropping a team mate in the shit with a poor pass during that time but there were a good few. Not blaming the player mind you as he was following his manager's instructions and trying to play football. We did have success with that style, that cannot be in question, but what is also true, as has been pointed out, is that teams sussed us out and started pressing us higher up the park which put an end to the build from the back philosophy and reintroduced "route one". Problem is you need pace to play 4-5-1 so the wide men can get down the flanks and turn it quickly into 4-3-3. We had success with Teale down the right and Isma had real joy drifting wide but we've had a succession of full back and central midfielders playing the wide roles this season and it simply doesn't work with Thommo often cutting an isolated figure up front. We're a lightweight team who have very little pace and are now lacking in confidence. Not a great combo and I'm slowly coming round to the idea that what we need to change is not so much the style of play but the manager, sad to say. If certain players can't play the style of football then they shouldn't be in the team. Drop Cheesey for Mair If we managed to sign a winger with a bit of pace or put Campbell on the right and Teale when fit on the left with Gowser buzzing round Thommo. Have Goodwin protecting the back four with McGinn & Newton in front it will work. Also looking at the goals we have lost they have came from the flanks so therefore bring in DVZ & Grainger to the full back spots and give the young boys a rest. Not saying by any means they are to blame but we need experienced heads to get us through this Edited January 13, 2014 by Dave The Buddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Philosophy.. In general, Saints fans seem to be pretty consistently Nihilists... Walter Sobchak: Nihilists! f**k me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) If certain players can't play the style of football then they shouldn't be in the team. If we managed to sign a winger with a bit of pace or put Campbell on the right and Teale when fit on the left with Gowser buzzing round Thommo. Have Goodwin protecting the back four with McGinn & Newton in front it will work. Also looking at the goals we have lost they have came from the flanks so therefore bring in DVZ & Grainger to the full back spots and give the young boys a rest. Not saying by any means they are to blame but we need experienced heads to get us through this Cart before horse - devise tactics to suit the players you have, also when a teams in the form we're in there should be no sacred cows. I'd also disagree with the goals we've lost coming from the flanks, IIRC the two goals against The Fakes came from corners - we've lost all sorts of goals over the last month or so. Walter Sobchak: Nihilists! f**k me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos. . Love that film! Edited January 13, 2014 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Cart before horse - devise tactics to suit the players you have, also when a teams in the form we're in there should be no sacred cows. I'd also disagree with the goals we've lost coming from the flanks, IIRC the two goals against The Fakes came from corners - we've lost all sorts of goals over the last month or so. Yeh with no one on the back post. . Love that film! Indeed, tis a good'un , Dude. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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