faraway saint Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 The irony. Or is it. No it cant be.. Yes i think it is. Innuendos everywhere? Balls anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robo Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Until the football governing bodies in Scotland insist on strict financial controls that all clubs must adhere to there is very little that will change. Instead of trying to mimic the English model, the SFA and the relevant league bodies should be modelling our game on the German Bundesliga system that has been successful since the 1960's. Instead these governing bodies are only interested in their own self importance and this will continue to destroy our national game. Fans up and down the country are treated like shit and the rise of ticket prices will continue to drive supporters away. There needs to be a significant change in attitude of supporters towards joining their own clubs supporters trust. The power will come to supporters when there is sufficient number that reflect the majority of the support. If SMISA had 2-3000 members contributing £2 per month it could start to build up a fund to support share purchase. Sadly I don't see that happening - even in times of trouble SMISA could only manage to get around 100 fans to put in regular donations. IIRC SMISA have raised well over £100,000. SMISA are cash rich to the tune of £50,000. Imagine if 1000 fans had joined SMISA instead of 100 during that period? I'd be more than happy to make a monthly contribution to a co-operative that's purpose was to fund share purchase. I don't think a one-off purchase of a controlling interest is likely to happen now, but there must be some scope for smaller purchases over a period of time - though I understand SMISA have had some difficulty in that respect. I've never got the impression that SMISA were particularly interested in having full control over the club, and I remember reading an article in the Black & White magazine to that effect, but having a fans organisation with any kind of significant shareholding could only be a good thing IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Community ownership of football clubs is the way forward - but I've talked about this till I've burned myself out on the subject. I took a wee trip over to K Park in East Kilbride just over a week ago where I watched EKFC playing a match. Clyde are moving there from next season AFAIK. It's a great wee venue run by the East Kilbride Community Trust and EKFC - who have journalist Iain King heavily active on their board - appear to have a very good set up that will be the building blocks for their future. It'll be interesting to watch the dynamics of what happens when Clyde move in and it'll be interesting to see if a real partnership can be developed between the two clubs and how that works within the local community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Community ownership of football clubs is the way forward - but I've talked about this till I've burned myself out on the subject. I took a wee trip over to K Park in East Kilbride just over a week ago where I watched EKFC playing a match. Clyde are moving there from next season AFAIK. It's a great wee venue run by the East Kilbride Community Trust and EKFC - who have journalist Iain King heavily active on their board - appear to have a very good set up that will be the building blocks for their future. It'll be interesting to watch the dynamics of what happens when Clyde move in and it'll be interesting to see if a real partnership can be developed between the two clubs and how that works within the local community. Please do carry on talking about it, but don't print it on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Community ownership of football clubs is the way forward - but I've talked about this till I've burned myself out on the subject. I took a wee trip over to K Park in East Kilbride just over a week ago where I watched EKFC playing a match. Clyde are moving there from next season AFAIK. It's a great wee venue run by the East Kilbride Community Trust and EKFC - who have journalist Iain King heavily active on their board - appear to have a very good set up that will be the building blocks for their future. It'll be interesting to watch the dynamics of what happens when Clyde move in and it'll be interesting to see if a real partnership can be developed between the two clubs and how that works within the local community. Clyde FC are not moving to K Park. However both Clubs currently train on the same nights of the week and have a great relationship in terms of Players and Coaches from what I can tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Community ownership of football clubs is the way forward - but I've talked about this till I've burned myself out on the subject. I took a wee trip over to K Park in East Kilbride just over a week ago where I watched EKFC playing a match. Clyde are moving there from next season AFAIK. It's a great wee venue run by the East Kilbride Community Trust and EKFC - who have journalist Iain King heavily active on their board - appear to have a very good set up that will be the building blocks for their future. It'll be interesting to watch the dynamics of what happens when Clyde move in and it'll be interesting to see if a real partnership can be developed between the two clubs and how that works within the local community. Clyde aren't moving until a new ground/stadium is built from what I understand, in fact a lot of Clyde fans are pretty sceptical about it coming to fruition at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Clyde aren't moving until a new ground/stadium is built from what I understand, in fact a lot of Clyde fans are pretty sceptical about it coming to fruition at all. Don't tell stu that he insists Clyde (Nae grun) are the example all professional clubs in Scotland should follow... get Supporters Direct in! they've helped at: Clyde Dunfermline Killie Hearts Sevco (allegedly) And all the other clubs in/out the gary glitter we should strive to emulate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldorf34 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Don't tell stu that he insists Clyde (Nae grun) are the example all professional clubs in Scotland should follow... get Supporters Direct in! they've helped at: Clyde Dunfermline Killie Hearts Sevco (allegedly) And all the other clubs in/out the gary glitter we should strive to emulate You forgot Motherwell,east stirling, Livingston,stirling albion, ayr, kilmarnock and dumbarton , all of whom will be owned by the fans by the start of the new season, and don t rule out rangers yet , the momentum is shifting away from dictators or closed shops like our consortium ( or cartel ? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 You forgot Motherwell,east stirling, Livingston,stirling albion, ayr, kilmarnock and dumbarton , all of whom will be owned by the fans by the start of the new season, and don t rule out rangers yet , the momentum is shifting away from dictators or closed shops like our consortium ( or cartel ? ) I didn't forget killie, Motherwell are an exception at the moment as not being a club in distress forced to seek funding from the only body willing to do so, it's fans. Hopefully they can make a fist of it, however there are grumblings already as to what representation/influence the fans actually have in excahnge for bankrolling the club. remember the club decided how, where and when Well would re-structure, not the fans. The others and my list above are clubs are clubs who are, or headed into 'distress' and regardless whether its an individual, a consortium or fans group by the time its in distress this almost guarnatees the next regime will be dealing with the aftershock of that for years to come. In Scotland there isn't as yet a 'Good Example' of a fan takeover, as it's always happened when the club is distressed and the fans group struggle to move forward. I note you forgot to add Dundee who only recently reversed there fan ownership model in exchange for the benjamin's! I would add to liken the BoD of our club who saved the club, built a new stadium, training facility, all weather dome and won a league cup to a dictatorship/closed shop is poorly thought through bad form. Anyone can join our current board, but normally you have to invest (with little prospect of realising a return) in the club to be allowed to do so. it's not closed, you just need to kiss goodbye to tens of thousands of pounds to take your seat (normally). Do you honestly think the sharks that have their teeth into sevco are going to let go of that 'cash cow' whilst their are still tens of thousands of mug punters willing to throw money at them..? Oh i'm sure they;ll be a token fund-raising in exchange for some toothless fan thingy, but the fans won't get near the books, money or running the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I didn't forget killie, Motherwell are an exception at the moment as not being a club in distress forced to seek funding from the only body willing to do so, it's fans. Hopefully they can make a fist of it, however there are grumblings already as to what representation/influence the fans actually have in excahnge for bankrolling the club. remember the club decided how, where and when Well would re-structure, not the fans. The others and my list above are clubs are clubs who are, or headed into 'distress' and regardless whether its an individual, a consortium or fans group by the time its in distress this almost guarnatees the next regime will be dealing with the aftershock of that for years to come. In Scotland there isn't as yet a 'Good Example' of a fan takeover, as it's always happened when the club is distressed and the fans group struggle to move forward. I note you forgot to add Dundee who only recently reversed there fan ownership model in exchange for the benjamin's! I would add to liken the BoD of our club who saved the club, built a new stadium, training facility, all weather dome and won a league cup to a dictatorship/closed shop is poorly thought through bad form. Anyone can join our current board, but normally you have to invest (with little prospect of realising a return) in the club to be allowed to do so. it's not closed, you just need to kiss goodbye to tens of thousands of pounds to take your seat (normally). Do you honestly think the sharks that have their teeth into sevco are going to let go of that 'cash cow' whilst their are still tens of thousands of mug punters willing to throw money at them..? Oh i'm sure they;ll be a token fund-raising in exchange for some toothless fan thingy, but the fans won't get near the books, money or running the club. Smashing alias. So much better than the last one, or in all likelihood, the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Clyde FC are not moving to K Park. However both Clubs currently train on the same nights of the week and have a great relationship in terms of Players and Coaches from what I can tell Fair enough Richard. I've probably put 2 and 2 together and got 22 instead of 4. I've been talking to the coaches at EKFC in our league and I got the impression that Clyde were going to be playing their home matches at K Park. Sitting in the stadium watching the kids match I assumed that it would probably be big enough for Clyde and with scope for three new stand on all three sides I thought it would be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Fair enough Richard. I've probably put 2 and 2 together and got 22 instead of 4. I've been talking to the coaches at EKFC in our league and I got the impression that Clyde were going to be playing their home matches at K Park. Sitting in the stadium watching the kids match I assumed that it would probably be big enough for Clyde and with scope for three new stand on all three sides I thought it would be perfect. The site at calderglen is not big enough and would need some upgrading and i supect some planning permission changes to do this. there is however the potential of a New Stadium in EK which would be suitable Edited January 29, 2014 by rea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Smashing alias. So much better than the last one, or in all likelihood, the next one. Great post! Nothing like contributing to the debate.... and that was really NOTHING like contributing to the debate. anyhoo this thread shoud be under the General Inconsequential topic. It aint a General SMFC discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Great post! Nothing like contributing to the debate.... and that was really NOTHING like contributing to the debate. anyhoo this thread shoud be under the General Inconsequential topic. It aint a General SMFC discussion. Well said Tony. Rea, please post his pic, cannie beat a good public meltdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhiteman Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Fair enough Richard. I've probably put 2 and 2 together and got 22 instead of 4. I've been talking to the coaches at EKFC in our league and I got the impression that Clyde were going to be playing their home matches at K Park. Sitting in the stadium watching the kids match I assumed that it would probably be big enough for Clyde and with scope for three new stand on all three sides I thought it would be perfect. Stuart that sounds like an admission of.......I just made it up. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhiteman Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I'd be more than happy to make a monthly contribution to a co-operative that's purpose was to fund share purchase. I don't think a one-off purchase of a controlling interest is likely to happen now, but there must be some scope for smaller purchases over a period of time - though I understand SMISA have had some difficulty in that respect. I've never got the impression that SMISA were particularly interested in having full control over the club, and I remember reading an article in the Black & White magazine to that effect, but having a fans organisation with any kind of significant shareholding could only be a good thing IMO. http://www.smisa.net/joinus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldorf34 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I didn't forget killie, Motherwell are an exception at the moment as not being a club in distress forced to seek funding from the only body willing to do so, it's fans. Hopefully they can make a fist of it, however there are grumblings already as to what representation/influence the fans actually have in excahnge for bankrolling the club. remember the club decided how, where and when Well would re-structure, not the fans. The others and my list above are clubs are clubs who are, or headed into 'distress' and regardless whether its an individual, a consortium or fans group by the time its in distress this almost guarnatees the next regime will be dealing with the aftershock of that for years to come. In Scotland there isn't as yet a 'Good Example' of a fan takeover, as it's always happened when the club is distressed and the fans group struggle to move forward. I note you forgot to add Dundee who only recently reversed there fan ownership model in exchange for the benjamin's! I would add to liken the BoD of our club who saved the club, built a new stadium, training facility, all weather dome and won a league cup to a dictatorship/closed shop is poorly thought through bad form. Anyone can join our current board, but normally you have to invest (with little prospect of realising a return) in the club to be allowed to do so. it's not closed, you just need to kiss goodbye to tens of thousands of pounds to take your seat (normally). Do you honestly think the sharks that have their teeth into sevco are going to let go of that 'cash cow' whilst their are still tens of thousands of mug punters willing to throw money at them..? Oh i'm sure they;ll be a token fund-raising in exchange for some toothless fan thingy, but the fans won't get near the books, money or running the club. The club have knocked back any investment since the formation of their cartel, it would mean reducing their 52prr cent holding, they have no discussion with the 48 per cent holders ,even to the point of not informing them when the AGM was being held and not sending copies of the accounts. The club is stagnating and is in freefall if nothing changes soon The dome is a great addition to the club but it is financed by the supporters trust, but this is a loan as they will not sell unissued shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Stuart that sounds like an admission of.......I just made it up. :-) I did put in the acronym - AFAIK - and I suppose what I've proved is that I know f**k all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 http://www.smisa.net/joinus Ahem.......John that would be fair enough but I think you should disclose to potential new recruits that the money they donate isn't being used to purchase shares. Instead it's being used to give the football club soft loans to support capital projects that have the effect of propping up the selling price of the club, putting the objective of co-operative ownership even further out of reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 The club have knocked back any investment since the formation of their cartel, it would mean reducing their 52prr cent holding, they have no discussion with the 48 per cent holders ,even to the point of not informing them when the AGM was being held and not sending copies of the accounts. The club is stagnating and is in freefall if nothing changes soon The dome is a great addition to the club but it is financed by the supporters trust, but this is a loan as they will not sell unissued shares. are you really suggesting that no one could by shares if they approached a shareholder and offered them what they wanted? I do get your point Re: the consortium grouping their collective shares to force a sale to them... but if someone really wanted to invest (which we all know in scottish football means kiss your cash goodbye) then approaching the big shareholders in the 48% and buying their stakes to get towards 30% would soon entice one or more of the consortium to break ranks and sell to you. The reality for the consortium is no one to date actually wants to use their own money (£1- 2m) to buy a football club that needs to fund a 300 - 400k shortfall.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 http://www.smisa.net/joinus Or buy t-shirts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldorf34 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 are you really suggesting that no one could by shares if they approached a shareholder and offered them what they wanted? I do get your point Re: the consortium grouping their collective shares to force a sale to them... but if someone really wanted to invest (which we all know in scottish football means kiss your cash goodbye) then approaching the big shareholders in the 48% and buying their stakes to get towards 30% would soon entice one or more of the consortium to break ranks and sell to you. The reality for the consortium is no one to date actually wants to use their own money (£1- 2m) to buy a football club that needs to fund a 300 - 400k shortfall.... Buying existing shares from anyone is not investing one penny in the club. The club releasing unissued shares would be investing in the club but it would mean the cartel losing power as their 52 percent would drop It is all about power , not the long term success of our club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhiteman Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Ahem.......John that would be fair enough but I think you should disclose to potential new recruits that the money they donate isn't being used to purchase shares. Instead it's being used to give the football club soft loans to support capital projects that have the effect of propping up the selling price of the club, putting the objective of co-operative ownership even further out of reach.you're absolutely right I didn't mention that, that and every other thing that SMiSA has done where every individuals interpretation or opinion can have a negative aspect particularly where the current shareholding of the club is concernedI've been reading over on the match day thread v hearts how much a state the club is in through root causes such as, the boards inactions, the stale environment due to the consortium, resulting in a lack of investment, affecting quality of players etc etc So the option is, using the dome loan example, to..... a) NOT loan the cash, preventing a major asset for the team, reducing commercial opportunities and eliminating the facility used every day by the local community, continuing along the lines of reducing the worth of the club therefore not propping up the value of the selling price for the consortium. Basically stand by and watch the club be run down so that 'someone' can then buy it for a lot less than the £ 2 million ish currently being chased Or b ) provide the loan, allowing all the above points to be realised, facility for the team, commercial opportunity, community involvement etc etc. and yes, i agree it does help to keep the selling price of the consortiums share price at a higher level than the option above but surely option 'b' is the lesser of the two evils I totally get where you're coming from and I'm not happy with the stalemate the club finds itself in, but would we all really be comfortable if everyone stopped investing in the club, eg the aforementioned loan, fans council raffles, season tickets, going to games, buying strips etc in an effort to encourage a quick exit by the consortium. It might work but whoever was to buy the consortiums shares at a lower price, might then have a club on their hands where everyone has lost any interest in investing in the club I personally don't think it's worth the gamble Edited January 30, 2014 by thewhiteman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 It doesn't matter how many times you tell a lie, it will never become the truth. I had meant to post on this at the time.......I thought I wasn't part of the consortium but I must be as I received the accounts and was informed of when the AGM was. The swine on the consortium must have included my shares in the 52% without telling me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldorf34 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 It doesn't matter how many times you tell a lie, it will never become the truth. The shareholders who informed the club they did not want to be contacted electronically have not received the invitation nor the abridged accounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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