TopCat Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I don't live in the modern world? How do you come to that conclusion? Because I think you're a tad PC & disagree with your attempts to make this into some sort of disgraceful term? YOU said using the word foreign was an insult? That's your interpretation, and, can be said as an innocuous word, can't it? You're making it up, turning this particular term into something it CLEARLY isn't. I don't know My Tam, but he could be wrong, couldn't he, to make a case to get rid of an employee? Wasn't just my interpretation, hundreds of people - including Vincent Tan - thought so too. Make a case to get rid of an employee? Whit? It's the media I'm talking about being racist. Mackay was racist/homophobic/sexist/anti Semitic in communications on work place devices. That stuff he was sending would get you sacked in any modern work place. If you lived in the real world you'd know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 So if you're not in Vincent Tans inner circle you won't know why he was sacked then. Given the decision was made by him. Glad we've cleared that up. Condemnation of discrimination is discriminatory? What nonsense. How is condemning people who discriminate discriminatory? I got to hear this. Labelling and grouping people in a derogatory fashion could be deemed discriminatory whether you like it or not, but again that isn't the issue. I am prepared to believe that I certainly have more insight into what happened (and happens) at Cardiff City than you do but I'm not bothered either way. If, however, you believe that Mr Tan made a decision and kept it to himself without telling anybody else why he made the decision you are sadly mistaken. Interesting to see the part of my posts you have refused to answer, I wonder why that might be?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Labelling and grouping people in a derogatory fashion could be deemed discriminatory whether you like it or not, but again that isn't the issue. I am prepared to believe that I certainly have more insight into what happened (and happens) at Cardiff City than you do but I'm not bothered either way. If, however, you believe that Mr Tan made a decision and kept it to himself without telling anybody else why he made the decision you are sadly mistaken. Interesting to see the part of my posts you have refused to answer, I wonder why that might be?? So you think that calling out someone who discriminates against various minorities for what they are... Is discrimination? That's a new one, and frankly a bizarre claim. What do you think we should call bigots and racists like Mackay? You think Tan maybe told some of the reasons and kept some to himself? You won't know, you're claims to be 'ITK' at Cardiff are just cringey baseless speculation. I've certainly never behaved like Mackay has been behaving, and certainly have never made any kind of remarks like that in the workplace. Have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Mackay is a sickening sexist, anti-Semitic racist. Like Ron Atkinson, Andy Gray, Rodney Marsh and other ex players who have had their shameful true colours exposed, I expect and hope he will become a pariah. If you want to stand up for him and defend him... Crack on. I never had you down as an apologist for that sort of thing, my mistake. Errr.... What?? As I said, these messages would certainly have justified his sacking, had they been known at the time. The fact is, they weren't. Mackay's sacking was not because of anything he said, but supposedly because he spent too much money in the transfer market. Tan's interview about what a bad person Mackay was came out after Mackay apologized to him and withdrew his employment tribunal claim - long after he was sacked, and once the content of these message was known to Tan. Let's not revise history here. His sacking was unjustified and Tan, who is a dreadful owner and not the sort of person who should be involved in football, got what he deserved with relegation. Mackay, only with the benefit of hindsight, got what he deserved too. That is not a defence of Mackay, and it is certainly not a defence of these messages which are undoubtedly unacceptable! I thought that was pretty clear first time round, but there it is spelt out for you again. I am criticising both Tan and Mackay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Mackay was racist/homophobic/sexist/anti Semitic in communications on work place devices. That stuff he was sending would get you sacked in any modern work place. If you lived in the real world you'd know that. Of course it would - but it didn't! You have completely missed the point in all of this!!! Otherwise he would have been sacked as a result of the messages and there would have been no tribunal claim! Dearie me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Errr.... What?? As I said, these messages would certainly have justified his sacking, had they been known at the time. The fact is, they weren't. Mackay's sacking was not because of anything he said, but supposedly because he spent too much money in the transfer market. Tan's interview about what a bad person Mackay was came out after Mackay apologized to him and withdrew his employment tribunal claim - long after he was sacked, and once the content of these message was known to Tan. Let's not revise history here. His sacking was unjustified and Tan, who is a dreadful owner and not the sort of person who should be involved in football, got what he deserved with relegation. Mackay, only with the benefit of hindsight, got what he deserved too. That is not a defence of Mackay, and it is certainly not a defence of these messages which are undoubtedly unacceptable! I thought that was pretty clear first time round, but there it is spelt out for you again. I am criticising both Tan and Mackay! You've missed the point. When Tan found out about the messages is immaterial. Maybe he had suspicions that he was a racist but had no proof when he sacked him, you have no idea. Hindsight shows us that Tan was absolutely correct to sack the bigot Mackay. Tan still owns Cardiff, and Mackay is a footballing pariah. Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 You've missed the point. When Tan found out about the messages is immaterial. Maybe he had suspicions that he was a racist but had no proof when he sacked him, you have no idea. Hindsight shows us that Tan was absolutely correct to sack the bigot Mackay. Tan still owns Cardiff, and Mackay is a footballing pariah. Good. Are you deliberately playing dumb? Of course it matters when Tan found out about the messages - otherwise they couldn't have been the reason for his sacking! Having suspicions but no proof would not have been grounds to dismiss an employee. They fell out because of his transfer dealings, it was well publicised at the time. There is no mystery here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Are you deliberately playing dumb? Of course it matters when Tan found out about the messages - otherwise they couldn't have been the reason for his sacking! Having suspicions but no proof would not have been grounds to dismiss an employee. They fell out because of his transfer dealings, it was well publicised at the time. There is no mystery here. So maybe the transfer dealings reason could have been because he had no proof about his - correct - suspicions that he was a racist? You have absolutely no idea. Point is sacking him for a making a mess of the transfers would have been fair enough. It turns out Mackay was also a racist, maybe Tan thought he was before he sacked him and that added to his desire to get rid. Racists like Mackay find it hard to hide their true colours in a workplace, as we see repeatedly and as we have seen again today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Theres people on here stick up for child abusers and contend the victims are only in it for the compo, so its no surprise that they'd stand up for racists, homophobes and all the other sickos. Check the Rolf Harris/Saville threads... They probably still don't think these paedophiles have actually done anything wrong... Ffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Theres people on here stick up for child abusers and contend the victims are only in it for the compo, so its no surprise that they'd stand up for racists, homophobes and all the other sickos. Check the Rolf Harris/Saville threads... They probably still don't think these paedophiles have actually done anything wrong... Ffs. What about the Coronations street actors you were getting all horny over, ya saddo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I couldn't care what you think about what I do or don't know, coming from someone who regularly quotes football agents etc that he has been speaking to/communicating with, it does make me smile (or is that cringe). I am prepared to accept that we all know people from all walks of life for many different reasons. Why does the workplace have any baring on whether remarks are acceptable but i'll take that as an admission that you have, at some point, made remarks that others may have found offensive or were just plain wrong. I don't feel the need to label or berate anybody, especially with discriminatory names like "pariah" and "dinasaur" to describe people that have "allegedly" made offensive remarks. I already mentioned "Now TC let's hear you deny that you have ever cracked a "sexist", "racist" or "xenophobic" remark............I'm not proud of the fact that I will have, at some point in my life, done one of the above but this whole "let's castigate someone from our ivory tower" position gets on my nerves just as much as the stupidity and ignorance of the original remarks." Good to know that you're better than Malky MacKay, hope that makes you sleep better at night in your sanctimonious splendour!! I am sure I have made remarks that I shouldn't have at some point in my life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) So maybe the transfer dealings reason could have been because he had no proof about his - correct - suspicions that he was a racist? You have absolutely no idea. Point is sacking him for a making a mess of the transfers would have been fair enough. It turns out Mackay was also a racist, maybe Tan thought he was before he sacked him and that added to his desire to get rid. Racists like Mackay find it hard to hide their true colours in a workplace, as we see repeatedly and as we have seen again today. Perhaps the problem was his true colour is blue, not red. Edited August 21, 2014 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 So maybe the transfer dealings reason could have been because he had no proof about his - correct - suspicions that he was a racist? You have absolutely no idea. Point is sacking him for a making a mess of the transfers would have been fair enough. It turns out Mackay was also a racist, maybe Tan thought he was before he sacked him and that added to his desire to get rid. Racists like Mackay find it hard to hide their true colours in a workplace, as we see repeatedly and as we have seen again today. It was very well publicised at the time that Tan gave him an ultimatum to resign or be sacked and listed a whole load of criticisms. Are you seriously suggesting that Tan sacked him because he thought he was a racist but couldn't be sure?? Let's get real here. Sacking him for "making a mess of transfers" would not have been fair enough - every manager signs at least one Andreas Cornelius in their time. Mackay would certainly have won at tribunal, which is why he brought his claim. He withdrew it when these messages emerged, but they emerged only because of a separate investigation into improprieties in transfer dealings (something else which would justify dismissal but only if proven). Tan could probably hardly believe his luck - there goes Mackay's claim for 7.5m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I couldn't care what you think about what I do or don't know, coming from someone who regularly quotes football agents etc that he has been speaking to/communicating with, it does make me smile (or is that cringe). I am prepared to accept that we all know people from all walks of life for many different reasons. Why does the workplace have any baring on whether remarks are acceptable but i'll take that as an admission that you have, at some point, made remarks that others may have found offensive or were just plain wrong. I don't feel the need to label or berate anybody, especially with discriminatory names like "pariah" and "dinasaur" to describe people that have "allegedly" made offensive remarks. I already mentioned "Now TC let's hear you deny that you have ever cracked a "sexist", "racist" or "xenophobic" remark............I'm not proud of the fact that I will have, at some point in my life, done one of the above but this whole "let's castigate someone from our ivory tower" position gets on my nerves just as much as the stupidity and ignorance of the original remarks." Good to know that you're better than Malky MacKay, hope that makes you sleep better at night in your sanctimonious splendour!! I am sure I have made remarks that I shouldn't have at some point in my life Regularly quote football agents? I think I've done that once in my life. Who else have I quoted? There's a clear difference between making remarks in the work place or in a public forum and making private remarks. I - and most normal people - would never make any kind of discriminatory remarks in a public sphere. Sharing a joke about woman drivers in private for example, is hardly comparable to the disgusting language Mackay used in public. Pariah and dinosaur aren't discriminatory terms. They are descriptive, Mackay will rightly become a footballing pariah and his views and language come from a 70's sitcom. He is stuck in the past, hence the term dinosaur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Regularly quote football agents? I think I've done that once in my life. Who else have I quoted? There's a clear difference between making remarks in the work place or in a public forum and making private remarks. I - and most normal people - would never make any kind of discriminatory remarks in a public sphere. Sharing a joke about woman drivers in private for example, is hardly comparable to the disgusting language Mackay used in public. Pariah and dinosaur aren't discriminatory terms. They are descriptive, Mackay will rightly become a footballing pariah and his views and language come from a 70's sitcom. He is stuck in the past, hence the term dinosaur. Why is there a difference, a discriminatory remark is just that whether it is made in public or not, you're only justifying your discrimination. Having obviously not seen as much of the information and evidence as you have, just how public were those texts and emails?? As I have said repeatedly I think his remarks, if correct, are wrong.........I just don't feel the need to judge people or to justify my indiscretions by comparing them, favourably or otherwise, against others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Is Vincent Tan NOT a foreign owner, then? I'm confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Is Vincent Tan NOT a foreign owner, then? I'm confused. RACIST! Wait, could you repeat it, it all depends on how you say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Top cat on the run! You need to stop using the word pariah as an insult It is grossly disrespectful to lower caste. Indians Nice to see you have admitted being a closett racist and sexist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Didn't I tell you the forum housed paedophile apologists..! I guess there contention is the victims only took part in horrendous acts as children that changed their lives, and destroyed trust in others wrecking relationships just so in 40 - 50 years time they might get some compo? It's some argument, and about as shaky as Rolf's ass in the showers these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) Didn't I tell you the forum housed paedophile apologists..! I guess there contention is the victims only took part in horrendous acts as children that changed their lives, and destroyed trust in others wrecking relationships just so in 40 - 50 years time they might get some compo? It's some argument, and about as shaky as Rolf's ass in the showers these days. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Forum perv....................have to laugh. Edited August 21, 2014 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 RACIST! Wait, could you repeat it, it all depends on how you say it. Definitely pronounced in a racist manner. I could feel it's tone emanating through my lap top screen. Disgraceful behaviour from Saint in Exile.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Definitely pronounced in a racist manner. I could feel it's tone emanating through my lap top screen. Disgraceful behaviour from Saint in Exile.................... I'm shocked, after all, he could be seen as foreign...........couldn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Didn't I tell you the forum housed paedophile apologists..! I guess there contention is the victims only took part in horrendous acts as children that changed their lives, and destroyed trust in others wrecking relationships just so in 40 - 50 years time they might get some compo? It's some argument, and about as shaky as Rolf's ass in the showers these days. WTF??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 WTF??? Posts like his are what the ignore function is for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Why is there a difference, a discriminatory remark is just that whether it is made in public or not, you're only justifying your discrimination. Having obviously not seen as much of the information and evidence as you have, just how public were those texts and emails?? As I have said repeatedly I think his remarks, if correct, are wrong.........I just don't feel the need to judge people or to justify my indiscretions by comparing them, favourably or otherwise, against others. You think a mildly sexist joke between friends is the same as racism and anti semitism in work place communication? How do you think we should deal with bigots like Mackay? Sweep it under the carpet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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