Why Have So Many Managers Failed?

[Bud the Baker]

What makes you say that?

Why shouldn't we be looking to get into the top six now and again - I am not saying that is what we should expect every season, but a club of our potential should be looking beyond the second or third tier of Scottish football, just now and again - especially when you recognise how second rate our national game is in general at the present time.

Don't you find it slightly disappointing that we have failed to finish in the top six for nearly forty years?

By your own yardstick, it would need the whole of the bottom half of the SPFL to over-achieve to stay above St Mirren.

My expectations of where St Mirren should be are based on potential support and a 'half-full' rather than 'half-empty' philosophy on life.

Maybe I am just naive!

OK replace false with unrealistic and I'll stick by what I've said. I'm a little bit disappointed we haven't had what I'd term a great league season since the early '80's but as I explained I think there are reasons for that. We're at the low stage in our cycle at the moment but we'll be back and hopefully next time we can do a bit better.

We've got different opinions on the matter and it doesn't seem like either of us are for changing our viewpoint so I'll bid you a good night and wish you a happy festive season.

[Mykey]

Tony Fitzpatrick in today's PDE says we are a scottish top 6 side - so it must be true.

[shull]

I agree with Mykey and Tony.

[Flareybob]

If Stewart Gilmour was as passionate for St Mirren as he is for cricket then St Mirren would be in the Champions League

[shull]

If Stewart Gilmour was as passionate for St Mirren as he is for cricket then St Mirren would be in the Champions League

Did his Cricket team win the Cricket World Cup?

[pass pass pass]

Tony fitz is a God, give him the job again

[Froggie]

The frogs tuppence worth is this. We have had a succession of bad managers who have signed some dreadful players. Most of the really bad players have had to be paid off recently, before their contracts had expired.

At a time when the team which has historically "stolen" much of our fan base, has itself been in its worst ever position, we have done nothing to try and tempt some fans back. On the contrary, not only have we struggled to win home matches at our new stadium, but we continue to make it difficult for fans by making them buy tickets for designated seats whilst charging way over the odds.

Anyone looking from the outside would find it hard to believe how a club which as recently as two years ago won a national trophy, have still managed to drop a division and see crowds plummet whilst their nearest rivals have floundered in the lower leagues.

For this achievement, I credit the board of directors.

[northstbuddie]

What I find disappointing and surprising is that so many fans on here seem to be resigned to our fate as second raters.

Despite the sad fact that we have failed to finish in the top six in Scotland for nearly forty years, some people consider that is as much as we can hope for.

Yes, compared to some, we have been run as a responsible business - living within our means, but where has our ambition and forward planning disappeared to?

The heady days of the seventies and eighties are a distant memory or was it just an illusion?

These were based not just on the drive and ability of talented managers but also on an effective scouting system run by the way by (Uncle) Jack Gilmour.

As we look to replace the manager for the umpteenth time under the present regime who have done their bit in the past but now want out, it is time that the club ownership is sorted out once and for all, before we slide into the third tier of an impoverished Scottish league.

It is difficult to see any incoming manager making a go of things under the present setup.

Paisley deserves and has the potential to do better.

[saint in exile]

if size of town was of any relevance then we would still be in the lower half of the spl behind celtic, rangers, hearts, hibs, dundee utd, dundee, aberdeen, inverness and partick.

Why Inverness?

[Mr Optimistic]

Is it possible that they have all been brought down from within the dressing room? Just asking.

[Ayrshire Saints]

Why Inverness?

Paisley way bigger than Inverness on population but I fail to see the relevance of population in a country where more than half the population claim to support one of two clubs. Stirling and EK are both bigger than Inverness but no one us claiming their football teams should be top 6. Flawed argument basing potential league position on population.

[northstbuddie]

Paisley way bigger than Inverness on population but I fail to see the relevance of population in a country where more than half the population claim to support one of two clubs. Stirling and EK are both bigger than Inverness but no one us claiming their football teams should be top 6. Flawed argument basing potential league position on population.

No - population base does not entitle St Mirren to a top six position.

My point is that clubs with a similar or lesser population base than St Mirren, such as Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Dunfermline, Inverness and St Johnstone, have all achieved better league performances at some point over the past 40 years.

Over such an extended period it is not unrealistic to have expected St Mirren to have achieved top six finishes for say one tenth of that time - i.e. 4.

Whereas we have achieved exactly zilch.

We have never been a good league team but we have had more than our fair share of cup success over the same period.

[religion is saints]

If Stewart Gilmour was as passionate for St Mirren as he is for cricket then St Mirren would be in the Champions League

I take it you know Stuart Gilmour personally? U are talking utter pish, if u had the balls to meet him face to face he would blow you out the water!

[Bud the Baker]

No - population base does not entitle St Mirren to a top six position.

My point is that clubs with a similar or lesser population base than St Mirren, such as Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Dunfermline, Inverness and St Johnstone, have all achieved better league performances at some point over the past 40 years.

Over such an extended period it is not unrealistic to have expected St Mirren to have achieved top six finishes for say one tenth of that time - i.e. 4.

Whereas we have achieved exactly zilch.

We have never been a good league team but we have had more than our fair share of cup success over the same period.

We have had seven top six finishes in the last 40 years.

It's unfortunate the last time was in 84/85 but if we'd made a better choice at the end of 2013/14 when DL's contract was up we'd have had a reasonable chance of rectifying that.

It takes baby steps to get to where we want to be

1. Stabilize ourselves in this division.
2. Put together a team capable of delivering promotion - with the play-off spot that's not as hard as it used to be.
3. Establish yourself in the top flight.
4. Put together a team capable of challenging for a Top Six place - DL's 2011/12 squad was capable until it went off the rails roundabout January.

************************

As Yazz once said

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on

The only way is up, northstreet.

For Paisley Saint Mirren

The only way is up, northstreet

For Paisley ​Saint Mirren

Edited December 15, 2015 by Bud the Baker

[northstbuddie]

We have had seven top six finishes in the last 40 years.

It's unfortunate the last time was in 84/85 but if we'd made a better choice at the end of 2013/14 when DL's contract was up we'd have had a reasonable chance of rectifying that.

It takes baby steps to get to where we want to be

1. Stabilize ourselves in this division.
2. Put together a team capable of delivering promotion - with the play-off spot that's not as hard as it used to be.
3. Establish yourself in the top flight.
4. Put together a team capable of challenging for a Top Six place - DL's 2011/12 squad was capable until it went off the rails roundabout January.

I stand corrected Bud.

We had a golden spell between 1978 and 1985 when we finished 6th, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th and 5th. Jim Clunie, Rikki McFarlane and a certain Mr Alex Miller were the managers. However, since that period (ie. 30years ago) we have been relegated twice and failed to finish higher than 7th.

Do we just put the 1978-85 period down as a fluke or is it an indication that with a competent manager and BoD St Mirren should expect better things than we have experienced for the past 30 years?

[Bud the Baker]

I stand corrected Bud.

We had a golden spell between 1978 and 1985 when we finished 6th, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th and 5th. Jim Clunie, Rikki McFarlane and a certain Mr Alex Miller were the managers. However, since that period (ie. 30years ago) we have been relegated twice and failed to finish higher than 7th.

Do we just put the 1978-85 period down as a fluke or is it an indication that with a competent manager and BoD St Mirren should expect better things than we have experienced for the past 30 years?

We had a great spell in the early '80's and then fucked things up for ourselves after winning the SC in '87 with the internal strife that ended up in us sacking Smith and replacing him with Tony-F who although he was a great player for us was a mediocre manager and capped it off by appointing the disinterested David Hay. We then suffered from the mid-90 till about 2010 by trying to do the right thing regarding repaying the debt we had incurred instead of pushing that debt to the limit and then going into receivership - we never really stood a chance in those years TH & GM were in charge.

Then came Danny Lennon who almost relegated us with the infamous Summer of 'Beath indeed he had to abandon his footballing instincts and shitfest his way to survival that season. His second season was much better and we finished the first "quarter" in sixth place and were still in seventh going into the Ne'erday game against Kilmarnock which we dominated but lost to a sucker punch goal in the 89^th minute - a draw would've seen us back up to 6th after 22 games! A poor transfer window by Lennon and our Top 6 challenge petered out well before the split and really that was the end of that. The LC win in 2013 came amidst a poor league campaign where we finished 11^th above only an underprepared Dundee.

Since then probably least said, soonest mended but I do believe if we can get back into the top division (easier said than done) it'll be a more level playing field in terms of what rival clubs are able to spend so yeah we should expect to push on and challenge for a Top Six spot - well you've got to have a dream...............

Edited December 16, 2015 by Bud the Baker