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On 4/14/2021 at 6:52 PM, faraway saint said:

Just seen that on the news.

10 games, I'd have banned him for life. If they are serious, lifetime ban would have sent out a stronger message.

Doesn't seem fair that Kamara gets 3 games IMO. 

The governing body's rules state the punishment for racist abuse should be "at least 10 matches", but Kudela's legal team say they are considering filing an appeal and queried the rigour of the investigation.

Was there other evidence apart from the two the rangers' players say so? If not then I don't think it would be right to dole out a lifetime ban on opposition players evidence alone. In fact I believe the player is intending to appeal the ten games. 

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1 hour ago, stlucifer said:

Was there other evidence apart from the two the rangers' players say so? If not then I don't think it would be right to dole out a lifetime ban on opposition players evidence alone. In fact I believe the player is intending to appeal the ten games. 

I don't really care what YOU think.

It was very obvious the player used a racist term (fecking monkey) so I THINK he should be banned for life.

I do hope his appeal results in a more severe punishment, 

 

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I don't really care what YOU think.
It was very obvious the player used a racist term (fecking monkey) so I THINK he should be banned for life.
I do hope his appeal results in a more severe punishment, 
 
Second half of your statement...
Yes please. That would be justice.

First half.... Big difference between "obvious" and "provable beyond all reasonable doubt"!

I'd have loved the racist B to get hammered. I agree... It's obvious he was guilty...

but unless it can be proven, caution has to be used.

10 game is a slap on the wrist. Nowhere near what was deserved... But under the circumstances, I understand it.

Like you, I hope his appeal backfires.

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27 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Second half of your statement...
Yes please. That would be justice.

First half.... Big difference between "obvious" and "provable beyond all reasonable doubt"!

I'd have loved the racist B to get hammered. I agree... It's obvious he was guilty...

but unless it can be proven, caution has to be used.

10 game is a slap on the wrist. Nowhere near what was deserved... But under the circumstances, I understand it.

Like you, I hope his appeal backfires.

I understand 100% there's a big difference mate, they felt there was enough to give him the 10 games, the MINIMIUM on racist incidents.

It's a cop out, a chance to prove they are serious about stamping out this stuff.

TBH I'm disappointed his club and team mates, especially the black players, haven't done more. :rolleyes:

 

Edited by faraway saint

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2 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

Second half of your statement...
Yes please. That would be justice.

First half.... Big difference between "obvious" and "provable beyond all reasonable doubt"!

I'd have loved the racist B to get hammered. I agree... It's obvious he was guilty...

but unless it can be proven, caution has to be used.

10 game is a slap on the wrist. Nowhere near what was deserved... But under the circumstances, I understand it.

Like you, I hope his appeal backfires.

I didn't see this incident but if they've found enough evidence to hit him with a 10 game ban then they have enough evidence to ban him for life.

I think this is probably the only message they can send out which will work - particularly in these Eastern European countries where racism seems to be even more of a problem than over here.

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I understand 100% there's a big difference mate, they felt there was enough to give him the 10 games, the MINIMIUM on racist incidents.
It's a cop out, a chance to prove they are serious about stamping out this stuff.
TBH I'm disappointed his club and team mates, especially the black players, haven't done more. :rolleyes:
 
I'll start by saying that I believe that he is guilty. However, there is no evidence apart from 2 opposition players saying he said it, so I don't really see how they are able to find him guilty of it. To find a player guilty solely on the say so of opposition players is ridiculous. It doesn't matter how reprehensible the (alleged) comment is, it shouldn't change the amount if evidence required. To me, they have started down a slippery slope here.

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I didn't see this incident but if they've found enough evidence to hit him with a 10 game ban then they have enough evidence to ban him for life.
I think this is probably the only message they can send out which will work - particularly in these Eastern European countries where racism seems to be even more of a problem than over here.
Agreed.
As Slarti said, the evidence is at best circumstansial. A 10 game ban on that is a dangerous measure. It truly is a hornet's nest either way.

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3 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

Agreed.
As Slarti said, the evidence is at best circumstansial. A 10 game ban on that is a dangerous measure. It truly is a hornet's nest either way.

I suppose the appeal will iron out how strong their evidence really is.

It's a tough one for the authorities though. Racists are generally clever enough to make sure they engage in this stuff when nobody else can hear and/or with their hand over their mouths. Their team-mates won't give them up and the opposition can't be trusted so if the ref or linesmen don't hear it and TV is inconclusive it's difficult to see any justice being done.

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8 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

Agreed.
As Slarti said, the evidence is at best circumstansial. A 10 game ban on that is a dangerous measure. It truly is a hornet's nest either way.

Oh, I meant to add. A much bigger problem is racism coming from the crowds.

That is much easier to identify and punish. Certainly no club found guilty of racism from the crowd should be allowed anywhere near European competition and there should be strict liability on that score. Same with sectarianism or coins/bottles etc thrown onto the pitch.

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On 4/18/2021 at 6:46 PM, Slarti said:

I'll start by saying that I believe that he is guilty. However, there is no evidence apart from 2 opposition players saying he said it, so I don't really see how they are able to find him guilty of it. To find a player guilty solely on the say so of opposition players is ridiculous. It doesn't matter how reprehensible the (alleged) comment is, it shouldn't change the amount if evidence required. To me, they have started down a slippery slope here.
 

Did I read something about one of his teammates being recorded talking to a friend and saying that the guy called Kamara a monkey? If true, then it's more than just the "other side" making accusations.

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Did I read something about one of his teammates being recorded talking to a friend and saying that the guy called Kamara a monkey? If true, then it's more than just the "other side" making accusations.
I have no idea what you read. Was it presented as evidence?

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8 minutes ago, Slarti said:
9 minutes ago, saint in exile said:
Did I read something about one of his teammates being recorded talking to a friend and saying that the guy called Kamara a monkey? If true, then it's more than just the "other side" making accusations.

I have no idea what you read. Was it presented as evidence?

Don't know if it was. Just an article I read.

ETA in the Evening Times on March 21st.

Edited by saint in exile

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Don't know if it was. Just an article I read.
ETA in the Evening Times on March 21st.

Looks like the biscuit muncher has cleared that up.
That was hearsay from the keeper as he was no where near the incident so very much doubt it was or would be able to be used in any precedings.
Cheers for that, Hobnob.

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34 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:
1 hour ago, saint in exile said:
Don't know if it was. Just an article I read.
ETA in the Evening Times on March 21st.

That was hearsay from the keeper as he was no where near the incident so very much doubt it was or would be able to be used in any precedings.

You have to wonder why his own keeper would say that?

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1 hour ago, Slarti said:
4 hours ago, faraway saint said:
Maybe he he was relaying what he heard a team mate claim what was said. 

Maybe ... and maybe that team mate was only repeating what Kamara was claiming.

You seem desperate to diminish the sources of racist evidence, why? 

Edited by faraway saint

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You seem desperate to diminish the sources of racist evidence, why? 
Not at all, I'm just demonstrating that where the keeper got his information from is an unknown and therefore how much credence it should be given is also an unknown.

You seem desperate to convict the guy on hearsay evidence alone, why?

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2 hours ago, Slarti said:
5 hours ago, faraway saint said:
Maybe he he was relaying what he heard a team mate claim what was said. 

Maybe ... and maybe that team mate was only repeating what Kamara was claiming.

Possibly, but the wording of the report was that he said "Ondrej called him a monkey". Not really in line with repeating Kamara's claim. But it's a newspaper article, so who knows?

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Beats me that a club who were born thru sectarianism and actively encourage sectarianism should be moaning about racism

Monkey not acceptable to them but it’s ok for 50k to sing about dirty,******** bastards etc

It must be legal to abuse catholics.

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39 minutes ago, saint in exile said:

Possibly, but the wording of the report was that he said "Ondrej called him a monkey". Not really in line with repeating Kamara's claim. But it's a newspaper article, so who knows?

"who knows" is exactly the point I'm making.

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On 4/18/2021 at 2:23 PM, faraway saint said:

I don't really care what YOU think.

It was very obvious the player used a racist term (fecking monkey) so I THINK he should be banned for life.

I do hope his appeal results in a more severe punishment, 

 

In what way was it obvious? Two the rangers players accused him of it. He definitely said something that he didn't want noted but I didn't hear it. I assume you didn't hear it. He could have said something derogatory without it being racist. Because you don't care what I think doesn't make it "obvious" that it was a racist comment. No matter how many times you claim it. Like I say. I've no doubt it was derogatory so a ban of some sort is definitely due  but I still believe in innocent unless PROVEN guilty. You seem to think that you know what was said without hearing it. A fantastic trick.

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