Guest TPAFKATS Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I can see your point but even if SNP wins every Scottish seat we will then definitely get Tory government Not necessarily although you could also say the same about voting labour in Scotland. 59 labour MPs in 2015 would still have resulted in a tory government and miliband had the support of the Blairites during his campaign as well as the 'left'.I like the idea of Corbyn running a minority gov with support from snp and others on a vote by vote basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Longtimecoming said: I can see your point but even if SNP wins every Scottish seat we will then definitely get Tory government That actually doesn't compute. If Labour won every seat it would do exactly the same, as far as the tories are concerned, as if the SNP won. It would still be 59 seats that the tories DIDN'T win. The difference would be, If Labour did well enough in England, SNP could hold the balance of power and could fight our corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 3 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Do you watch or listen to the news. Do you watch programmes such as Question time. Have you never made donation to a food bank. May I suggest you take time out go help a food bank for one day. If that is below you then go to a food bank and speak to the people giving their time for free to help out and listen to their story as you mate are so out of touch with reality. Please go it is very disturbing you don't understand just how bad the situation is. I dont need to go to a foodbank to understand that we have people who live such chaotic lives that they cannot prioritise food over trips to America. It is very fortunate that we have people prepared to run these foodbanks to help these chaotic people but dont tell me this is society's problem. It isnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 4 hours ago, Longtimecoming said: My mother's friend from church helps out in a foodbank in Ardrossan. Most of the people using it ARE in employment. After all the unemployed don't pay rent or many other things people on low pay do. Full time permanent work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, stlucifer said: Don't tar all low paid workers with the same brush as that attention seeker. Many people on the so called "living wage", which, by the very nature of the necessity of foodbanks, makes a nonsense of the title, require extra assistance from charities. If the Tories were honest they would never have changed the name from "minimum wage". If you are in full time work and on minimum wage then there is no way you should be using foodbanks. The people caught in a trap are those on part time wages. Edited June 4, 2017 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 minute ago, oaksoft said: If you are in full time work and on minimum wage then there is no way you should be using foodbanks. No point in discussing this with someone residing in Cloud Cuckoo Land. I wish you could step into the real world and see what it really takes to make ends meet for a family living, or that should read, surviving on one parent working for a pittance. I just wonder why you think foodbanks are giving out food to working parents if they are able to look after themselves. Christ. In your world they're not needed at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, stlucifer said: No point in discussing this with someone residing in Cloud Cuckoo Land. I wish you could step into the real world and see what it really takes to make ends meet for a family living, or that should read, surviving on one parent working for a pittance. I just wonder why you think foodbanks are giving out food to working parents if they are able to look after themselves. Christ. In your world they're not needed at all. Nobody should need to be using foodbanks on full time wages. In the real world, a lot of people clearly cannot prioritise or budget. Why cant you just admit that? Fortunately we have foodbanks to help them out. Where did I say they werent needed? This is not the Tories fault. You need to tone down the ludicrous righteous rage and stop defending the indefensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Nobody should need to be using foodbanks on full time wages. In the real world, a lot of people clearly cannot prioritise or budget. Why cant you just admit that? Fortunately we have foodbanks to help them out. Where did I say they werent needed? This is not the Tories fault. You need to tone down the ludicrous righteous rage and stop defending the indefensible. FFS. You really should try to live on a minimum wage when you have a wife and kids to feed, cloth and keep a roof over their heads. I know I'm glad I am able to give to a foodbank rather than rely on one. Perhaps they could go without things like clothes or shoes. Heating or lighting. Miss a couple of rent payments to their private landlord who are making fortunes on the back of their needs. So. Who does needs foodbanks in your fantasy land?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I dont need to go to a foodbank to understand that we have people who live such chaotic lives that they cannot prioritise food over trips to America. It is very fortunate that we have people prepared to run these foodbanks to help these chaotic people but dont tell me this is society's problem. It isnt. It really is sad that there are pathetic individuals who have no idea what the real world is like. I take it there were no food banks when you were a teenager I wonder why that was. Please don't answer I know you don't care about others. One of Maggie's golden child's she would be so proud of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Here's some evidence of the link between Conservative austerity policies and the growth in foodbank use: https://fullfact.org/economy/more-1-million-people-used-food-banks-last-year-s-not-what-evidence-shows/ And this is the most telling part: "Why are there more food banks? Examples of food bank users abound; the main reported causes of food bank use are 'crises' in a range of areas, coupled with low household income and rising costs. Labour says that this increase is due to government welfare policy, a report from the Scottish Parliament said benefit sanctions were a cause, and other critics of the policy blame the spare room subsidy (also known as the 'bedroom tax'). The government has previously rejected the link between benefit reforms and food bank use. But the increase in use and number of food banks is associated with spending cuts, benefit sanctions and unemployment, based on recent analysis in the British Medical Journal, which accounts for changes in the number of food bank numbers and for how long each food bank has been open. The report commissioned by DEFRA concluded that: "Those looking to monitor and respond to household food insecurity in the UK… should focus on the root causes of this insecurity, rather than on numbers claiming food aid, which are unreliable indicators of problems." Data from the Trussell Trust may be the best evidence we have, but reporting on the subject needs to be clearer about the limitations of the evidence to inform debate about such a serious issue."" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, stlucifer said: FFS. You really should try to live on a minimum wage when you have a wife and kids to feed, cloth and keep a roof over their heads. I know I'm glad I am able to give to a foodbank rather than rely on one. Perhaps they could go without things like clothes or shoes. Heating or lighting. Miss a couple of rent payments to their private landlord who are making fortunes on the back of their needs. So. Who does needs foodbanks in your fantasy land?? Minimum wage, full time hours is about £1200 per month. If you cannot understand that accomodation and food can be easily dealt with on that wage then you can't really be blaming the Tories. If you have a family you can chuck in a heap of tax credits and child benefit on top of that - sometimes hundreds of pounds per month depeding on your cirucmstances. Under those circumstances the state cannot be blamed if you spend all that money without remembering that food is your top priority. Come on, be honest, out of £1200 what is the top priority if it isn't food? Edited June 4, 2017 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, stlucifer said: FFS. You really should try to live on a minimum wage when you have a wife and kids to feed, cloth and keep a roof over their heads. I know I'm glad I am able to give to a foodbank rather than rely on one. Perhaps they could go without things like clothes or shoes. Heating or lighting. Miss a couple of rent payments to their private landlord who are making fortunes on the back of their needs. So. Who does needs foodbanks in your fantasy land?? I lived on well under the minimum wage when I started running my own company so be careful who you preach to. Nobody SHOULD need foodbanks but clearly some do because they cannot control their lifestyles. The real people the state should be helping are those on zero hours contracts who don't have enough hours to get tax credits and earn too much for benefits. The rest of us SHOULD have the decency to get on with our lives to allow those in real need to get access to help. The problem here is a deep rooted sense of entitlement from people who actualkly don't need help at all if they could just learn to budget and a vast army of left wing handwringers using them to make political attacks against the Tories. For once the Tories are not the ones to blame for much of this. The left don't have the decency to accept this though and so everything becomes about ridiculous claims to hold the moral high ground. Mainstream society will not accept that people on £1200 per month need any more of their help and appear to be voting accordingly. If you want the Tories out you need a much more intelligent narrative than this nonsense. There are plenty of good targets such as lack of reform of the NHS leading to an organisation so bloated that almost any amount of money you could throw at it wouldn't be enough. Edited June 4, 2017 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Some families need Foodbanks. Especially when some are buying 40 cigarettes a day at nearly 10 quid a packet. Alcohol Jumping about in Taxis. And not forgetting their ' wee bit of blaw ' to relieve their stress of spending all their money on shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, shull said: Some families need Foodbanks. Especially when some are buying 40 cigarettes a day at nearly 10 quid a packet. Alcohol Jumping about in Taxis. And not forgetting their ' wee bit of blaw ' to relieve their stress of spending all their money on shite. I don't really care about all that. I just want to know why someone earning £1200 cannot understand that food is the first priority. It comes before accomodation, heating, new shoes everything because it is the one thing which, if you omit to buy it, will rapidly result in your death or your need to leech from others who are probably struggling to keep a roof over their own heads. I want to know how anyone can honestly blame the Tories if someone decides anything else is a priority over food. I'll tell you what is happening. I reckon the attitude is as follows: "Foodbanks are available and everyone knows the Tories are being blamed for it so you know what I think I will spend all my money on shite and then nip down to get a referral and get access to free food through a foodbank. And the beauty is, nobody will blame me. Better still, if anyone DOES blame me they will be attacked and called names on the internet by a bunch of left wing handwringers who have no idea about our motives. I can even pretend to have had a big bill for a broken fridge so that I can absolve myself of all blame knowing others will fight my corner" Edited June 4, 2017 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 22 minutes ago, shull said: Some families need Foodbanks. Especially when some are buying 40 cigarettes a day at nearly 10 quid a packet. Alcohol Jumping about in Taxis. And not forgetting their ' wee bit of blaw ' to relieve their stress of spending all their money on shite. And quite right too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Years ago I was involved in a foodbank on a voluntary basis. There is no doubt that some people genuinely needed help and some people abused it. I'd guess that is the same today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 hours ago, stlucifer said: You really should try to live on a minimum wage This is not about low pay. It's about recognising that nobody owes you a job. It's about understanding that when you do fall on hard times that in amongst your own personal feelings you find a bit of time to remember to be grateful to everyone else for agreeing to pay tax to help you out while you are temporarily struggling rather than just leaving you to die in a gutter like virtually every other species of animal. Humans are very special that way. We care, but we are NOT there to be taken the piss out of. It's about remembering that NO government can possibly provide an impermeable safety net. It's about remembering to be eternally grateful that we have people prepared to run free foodbanks, training workshops, and community initiatives for you on top of their own personal obligations to their families. It's about removing the chip of entitlement from your shoulder. This is about personal responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, insaintee said: Years ago I was involved in a foodbank on a voluntary basis. There is no doubt that some people genuinely needed help and some people abused it. I'd guess that is the same today. I have no doubt that those who need foodbanks genuinely need those foodbanks at that time (excluding those abusing it). The question is not about that really. The question is about WHY they are needing to use them if they are in full time permanent work. Why are they not prioritising buying food from their income? What else are they considering to be more important? That is the essential help they need beyond the food given to them by the foodbank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 5 hours ago, Longtimecoming said: I can see your point but even if SNP wins every Scottish seat we will then definitely get Tory government That is not the SNP's problem nor should it be. Their job is to assure Scottish voters that THEY are best placed to represent Scotland's needs. No other party can offer a stronger Scottish voice in the UK parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 15 hours ago, oaksoft said: What "work forces" are using foodbanks? Are you talking about that daft nurse again? The one on £22k who cant figure out how to prioritise food over holidays in New York? I have to be honest, I couldnt interpret much of the rest of your post. Lots of biting, mumble humble and bizarrely summat about the Old Firm generally, i disagree with you, however the woman in question who claimed to be a nurse on 22k has several holes in her story. one of these is that any nurse with only 5 years service would be nearing the top of Band 5 and getting 26-28.5K. she also mentioned night shift, which would boost her salary by several thousand more. Now she may be working reduced hours which is something she can sort out for herself, or she may be a health care assistant rather than a fully fledged nurse, but either way she was spreading the bullshit around with a trowel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I have no doubt that those who need foodbanks genuinely need those foodbanks at that time (excluding those abusing it). The question is not about that really. The question is about WHY they are needing to use them if they are in full time permanent work. Why are they not prioritising buying food from their income? What else are they considering to be more important? That is the essential help they need beyond the food given to them by the foodbank. I'll try capital letters. BECAUSE THEY AREN'T PAID ENOUGH BY THEIR EMPLOYERS. How bloody difficult is that to understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, stlucifer said: I'll try capital letters. BECAUSE THEY AREN'T PAID ENOUGH BY THEIR EMPLOYERS. How bloody difficult is that to understand? £1200 isn't enough to buy food? What are they trying to eat? Caviar? Who are you trying to kid here? Are you seriously trying to convince people that you cannot buy food on £1200 per month? Really? How many have you managed to persuade that this cannot buy you food and accomodation in towns like Paisley? Edited June 4, 2017 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Research by those who work in the areas of foodbanks and poverty shows that those on low pay and minimum wages struggle to pay rent and fuel costs. Rent alone can be around 60% of income. This obviously has to be paid in advance with a deposit usually required. On top of this there are fuel costs and transport costs.Transport obviously needs to be paid in order to get you to work, as if you don't get to work you don't earn.Obviously it's not as straightforward as the forum's resident self acknowledged genius would have us believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, oaksoft said: £1200 isn't enough to buy food? What are they trying to eat? Caviar? Who are you trying to kid here? Are you seriously trying to convince people that you cannot buy food on £1200 per month? Really? How many have you managed to persuade that this cannot buy you food and accomodation in towns like Paisley? See the sensible post below your nonsensical ramt. Edited June 4, 2017 by stlucifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: Research by those who work in the areas of foodbanks and poverty shows that those on low pay and minimum wages struggle to pay rent and fuel costs. Rent alone can be around 60% of income. This obviously has to be paid in advance with a deposit usually required. On top of this there are fuel costs and transport costs. Transport obviously needs to be paid in order to get you to work, as if you don't get to work you don't earn. Obviously it's not as straightforward as the forum's resident self acknowledged genius would have us believe. 60% of £1200 is £720. Why is anyone single person on minimum wage trying to rent out properties at that price FFS? How far are they travelling? Why are they not moving closer to work? How is this the fault of the Tories? Deposits? What are they spending £1200 on that they can't save a little each month? Why are they not taking personal responsibilty and taking on another part-time weekend pub job like millions of us have had to do in our time something so they don't have to rely on others? You guys are taking the piss here aren't you? Is there a hidden camera prank going on? Edited June 4, 2017 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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