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Bud the Baker

Brexit Negotiations

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Totally agree.

In addition, you could replace the words "Leave", "Brexit" and "the UK" with "Yes", "Independence" and "Scotland"....

Can't let it go because Nicola has called for a second referendum! :1eye

The SNP are a single issue party. The ONLY issue they are dealing with is trying to engineer a referendum!

The SNP have pretended put it on the backburner because of the catastrophic losses they suffered in the GE as a result of calling for a second referendum!

A GE which saw them receive a much smaller share of the vote in Scotland than the Tories did in the UK!

A GE which them receive no bigger a share of the electorate than Thatcher did in Scotland in 1979!

A GE which saw them receive less votes than Leave did in Scotland!

 

 

It's Pavlovian, as soon as politics is mentioned it's like a dog whistle to prove he really is

 

#thichasfcuk

 

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The brexit negotiations should be easy.

The UK should ask for all current conditions and treaties to be carried over and then after exit they should start to change what they don't like on an issue by issue basis.  

There is no Brexit means Brexit consensus and the idea that we voted to throw away everything ever touched by the EU is nonsense. 

The Environment, health and safety, Employment law, Data protection, The customs union, Cultural exchange, consumer protection, the list is endless. 

Edited by insaintee

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13 hours ago, insaintee said:

The brexit negotiations should be easy.

The UK should ask for all current conditions and treaties to be carried over and then after exit they should start to change what they don't like on an issue by issue basis.  

There is no Brexit means Brexit consensus and the idea that we voted to throw away everything ever touched by the EU is nonsense. 

The Environment, health and safety, Employment law, Data protection, The customs union, Cultural exchange, consumer protection, the list is endless. 

You surely dont expect the EU to agree to allow us to maintain our benefits whilst not being a member?

Nothing is easy when human beings and egos are involved.

Edited by oaksoft

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You surely dont expect the EU to agree to allow us to maintain our benefits whilst not being a member?
Nothing is easy when human beings and egos are involved.


We know. We've all tried to have reasonable discussions with you. :)

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On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 0:46 PM, Bud the Baker said:

The SNP have put it on the backburner while we deal with current issues unlike you and your fellow unicyclists. Once we see what sort of clusterfuck emerges from the Brexit negotiations and what the EU might be willing to offer Scotland as a GIRFUY to May we'll re-assess the situation.

Politics in the Twitter age is going to be far more fluid than it has been in the past and with 55-60% in a few opinion polls now constituting a mandate we'll see where are once these talks are completed.

 

I would argue that the SNP put it on the backburner right from the off by saying the Scottish Parliament want the choice AFTER the "Brexit" negotiation outcome was known. After that it was the unionist parties that sought to use it as a battering ram against the SNP on a UK level. Their respective, (and I did say respective- not respectful as that certainly wouldn't describe them), MSP leaders chose to talk about this rather than expose the fact they had NOTHING positive for Scotland in their UK manifestos. Unfortunately many Scottish electors fell for the hype. It would be madness for NS or the SNP to take a referendum off the table. Not least because, as these EU negotiations continue, independence will suddenly  look like one hell of a good deal to the many Scots whose minds were poisoned by the sh!te from the right while ideas from the left were bereft. What fantastic policies were heralded from either? NONE.

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3 hours ago, stlucifer said:

I would argue that the SNP put it on the backburner right from the off by saying the Scottish Parliament want the choice AFTER the "Brexit" negotiation outcome was known. After that it was the unionist parties that sought to use it as a battering ram against the SNP on a UK level. Their respective, (and I did say respective- not respectful as that certainly wouldn't describe them), MSP leaders chose to talk about this rather than expose the fact they had NOTHING positive for Scotland in their UK manifestos. Unfortunately many Scottish electors fell for the hype. It would be madness for NS or the SNP to take a referendum off the table. Not least because, as these EU negotiations continue, independence will suddenly  look like one hell of a good deal to the many Scots whose minds were poisoned by the sh!te from the right while ideas from the left were bereft. What fantastic policies were heralded from either? NONE.

Technically you're right although after double checking it looks like I did remember correctly.:wacko: If the policy was to wait until after the Brexit negotiation before deciding on whether to hold a second IndyRef then there was no need to push the vote through at Holyrood so early. For me it gave Unionist politicians and in particular RD, a brittle politician, an issue to switch to no matter the topic. I agree there's no going back now but the issue has to be parked for immediate future and NS has to be seen to be concentrating on the day job. It's been a setback but as I say the underlying problems with the Union are still there and if NS can display better government than TM at Westminster and that shouldn't be hard then perhaps we can get back on track.

A tax raising anti-austerity strategy in her post-GE speech next which I think is due week would put pressure on Labour & KD to back "For the Many Not the Few" policies at Holyrood.

******************

I knew my memory wasn't that bad - even allowing for the fact that different things have been said at different times that's just revisionism

Quote
  • First Minister Nicola Sturgeon announces independence referendum will be between Autumn 2018 and Spring 2019
  • Ms Sturgeon says she will seek Scottish Parliament approval for a second independence referendum next week
  • The franchise and question in the second independence referendum is for the Scottish Parliament to decide says the first minister

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39255256

Edited by Bud the Baker

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

You surely dont expect the EU to agree to allow us to maintain our benefits whilst not being a member?

Nothing is easy when human beings and egos are involved.

If we continue to pay yes

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2 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Technically you're right although after double checking it looks like I did remember correctly.:wacko: If the policy was to wait until after the Brexit negotiation before deciding on whether to hold a second IndyRef then there was no need to push the vote through at Holyrood so early. For me it gave Unionist politicians and in particular RD, a brittle politician, an issue to switch to no matter the topic. I agree there's no going back now but the issue has to be parked for immediate future and NS has to be seen to be concentrating on the day job. It's been a setback but as I say the underlying problems with the Union are still there and if NS can display better government than TM at Westminster and that shouldn't be hard then perhaps we can get back on track.

A tax raising anti-austerity strategy in her post-GE speech next which I think is due week would put pressure on Labour & KD to back "For the Many Not the Few" policies at Holyrood.

******************

I knew my memory wasn't that bad - even allowing for the fact that different things have been said at different times that's just revisionism

Your memory isn't fading but it does appear to be selective. The dates selected were taken from the timetable the tories themselves had suggested Brexit details would be known. the reason for the early debate and vote on the matter was to ensure the Scottish Government had ample time to fight for the right to hold it. IF they had waited until May had concluded the negotiations it would have been too late to organise the choice vote and Brexit would have been a fait accompli.

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On ‎24‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 5:37 PM, stlucifer said:

Your memory isn't fading but it does appear to be selective. The dates selected were taken from the timetable the tories themselves had suggested Brexit details would be known. the reason for the early debate and vote on the matter was to ensure the Scottish Government had ample time to fight for the right to hold it. IF they had waited until May had concluded the negotiations it would have been too late to organise the choice vote and Brexit would have been a fait accompli.

The SNP (with a little help from their friends) hold the majority at Holyrood they could've waited till they saw how the Brexit talks were heading before they introduced the bill - it could've been passed anytime and the infrastructure to in place all that would have been required was a date. As for the talks finishing early - anyone who thought (thinks) that was likely should be sent straight back to P1 politics, this will go to the wire and I wouldn't be surprised if the clocks have to be stopped at 11:59 - bookmark it . It was a hasty decision by NS and even if your interpretation of what she intended is correct there is no way you can argue it was coherently presented in that manner. The only saving grace for NS is that post-GE TM is in as bad a position, in reality worse in that she will never be able to find apposition which suits all of her parliamentary support.

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On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 0:18 PM, Bud the Baker said:

The SNP (with a little help from their friends) hold the majority at Holyrood they could've waited till they saw how the Brexit talks were heading before they introduced the bill - it could've been passed anytime and the infrastructure to in place all that would have been required was a date. As for the talks finishing early - anyone who thought (thinks) that was likely should be sent straight back to P1 politics, this will go to the wire and I wouldn't be surprised if the clocks have to be stopped at 11:59 - bookmark it . It was a hasty decision by NS and even if your interpretation of what she intended is correct there is no way you can argue it was coherently presented in that manner. The only saving grace for NS is that post-GE TM is in as bad a position, in reality worse in that she will never be able to find apposition which suits all of her parliamentary support.

The SNP needed an Order in Council under Section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998 to be decreed before any vote could be arranged let alone a campaign being fought. They never thought May would backtrack on her open aversion to an election before the "Brexit", (Oh how I hate that term), terms were known. That is where it fell flat initially for the SNP. If May wasn't a lying bitch then the SNP couldn't have lost the seats. I do blame the SNP for a badly fought campaign as they allowed the unionist parties to gang up on ONE platform. They could have spent more time questioning the oppositions merits of their campaign rather than staying on the back foot. I reiterate. The only reason the call for a right to hold a vote on the final outcome became a problem was because May thought she could win a massive vote of confidence. The daftest part is it was the Scottish vote that kept the Tories in power. I bet a lot of those who voted tactically are feeling pretty damn stupid now.

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18 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

The SNP needed an Order in Council under Section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998 to be decreed before any vote could be arranged let alone a campaign being fought. They never thought May would backtrack on her open aversion to an election before the "Brexit", (Oh how I hate that term), terms were known. That is where it fell flat initially for the SNP. If May wasn't a lying bitch then the SNP couldn't have lost the seats. I do blame the SNP for a badly fought campaign as they allowed the unionist parties to gang up on ONE platform. They could have spent more time questioning the oppositions merits of their campaign rather than staying on the back foot. I reiterate. The only reason the call for a right to hold a vote on the final outcome became a problem was because May thought she could win a massive vote of confidence. The daftest part is it was the Scottish vote that kept the Tories in power. I bet a lot of those who voted tactically are feeling pretty damn stupid now.

There's a lot of truth in what you say but I still think the decision was a bit premature while the status of whether the UK remains in the Single Market (the current fallback position) has yet to be resolved. Who knows perhaps the Holyrood decision was a factor in TM calling the recent election. On practical terms it was a distraction during the Council Elections which had already been scheduled. I agree the SNP campaign was mediocre with the focus on IndyRef2 and devolved issues but they made at least one significant own goal, when Joanna Cherry wrongly accused "foodbank nurse" of being married to a Tory Councillor as it turned what should have been an issue where the Tories are weak to one that could be dismissed by the Tories (+ their lapdogs) taking the Cybernat Bullies detour.

The landscape has changed since March and as I've said previously the challenge is now on the SNP to show that they can manage better than the Tories - hopefully the DUP deal/bribe will take the shine off of the Unionist parties with RD's claim that the thirteen Tory MP's could provide Scotland with an "independent" influence on policy as the bluster* it was. As long as Scotland stays in the UK the Scottish Unionist Parties are nothing more than branch offices.

* It's the way she tells 'em! :lol:

Quote

Ruth Davidson's Scottish Tory MPs Will Be Prepared To Defy Theresa May

Sources close to the Scottish Conservative leader told BuzzFeed News she now has unprecedented influence over the prime minister.

 

 

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 when Joanna Cherry wrongly accused "foodbank nurse" of being married to a Tory Councillor as it turned what should have been an issue where the Tories are weak to one that could be dismissed by the Tories

 

Why did none of the stories and pictures about the "foodbank nurse" going Xmas shopping in NY etc hit the MSM?

 

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Why did none of the stories and pictures about the "foodbank nurse" going Xmas shopping in NY etc hit the MSM?
 

Because we have a print media that is owned by a 3 or 4 billionaires who run their titles in their own self interest. That means no or little change, the SNP and Scottish Independence means big change (potentially).
Add to this a compliant television media including a state broadcaster which unsurprisingly broadcasts in the state interest.
In the case of Pacific Quay, this has only gotten worse since the 2014 referendum.

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Because we have a print media that is owned by a 3 or 4 billionaires who run their titles in their own self interest. That means no or little change, the SNP and Scottish Independence means big change (potentially).
Add to this a compliant television media including a state broadcaster which unsurprisingly broadcasts in the state interest.
In the case of Pacific Quay, this has only gotten worse since the 2014 referendum.


It was really meant as a rhetorical question, but thanks anyway. :)

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