bazil85 Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 4 hours ago, Bud the Baker said: 1. Sometimes less is more. 2. In your opinion only plenty disagree, these are not my words, but I wholeheartedly concur! .....................and so the circle continues. You’ll agree a lot of what I have posted isn’t just opinion surely? Including comparative crowds, record season ticket sales and high attendance numbers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, bazil85 said: You’ll agree a lot of what I have posted isn’t just opinion surely? Including comparative crowds, record season ticket sales and high attendance numbers... The epitome of arrogance! We've already been through this numerous times, you're not comparing like with like & I don't & never have agreed they mean what you claim. You continue to conflate your opinion with facts, and we're back where we were on Tuesday! Edited April 19, 2019 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 33 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: The epitome of arrogance! We've already been through this numerous times, you're not comparing like with like & I don't & never have agreed they mean what you claim. You continue to conflate your opinion with facts, and we're back where we were on Tuesday! A weekday Killie game within a few weeks of the Celtic game isn’t a good comparison? Or a Saturday game against Livi? The two Motherwell games aren’t good comparisons? There’s hardly drastic differences in them. For your theory that fans are turning away in big numbers because of the arrangement to be true, it also has to be true that more fans will stay away because of day light saving and a couple degree drop in temperature lol. To clarify. ‘We don’t see a considerable number of fans stay away because of this arrangement’ opinion. That opinion was arrived at based on: ‘We took more home fans to a Celtic mid week game than we did to two recent games around it.’ Fact ‘additional games like the two Motherwell weekday games also strongly suggest home fans aren’t turning away in considerable numbers’ common sense in the absence of home/ away fan breakdown I do not conflate facts and opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, bazil85 said: A weekday Killie game within a few weeks of the Celtic game isn’t a good comparison? Or a Saturday game against Livi? The two Motherwell games aren’t good comparisons? There’s hardly drastic differences in them. For your theory that fans are turning away in big numbers because of the arrangement to be true, it also has to be true that more fans will stay away because of day light saving and a couple degree drop in temperature lol. To clarify. ‘We don’t see a considerable number of fans stay away because of this arrangement’ opinion. That opinion was arrived at based on: ‘We took more home fans to a Celtic mid week game than we did to two recent games around it.’ Fact ‘additional games like the two Motherwell weekday games also strongly suggest home fans aren’t turning away in considerable numbers’ common sense in the absence of home/ away fan breakdown I do not conflate facts and opinion. That's an opinion not a fact as I pointed out there were different factors which would affect the attendance, the same is true for your other two examples - as I've said all along Apples & Oranges! The difference, Melchy is that I think you're entitled to your opinion, you don't think anyone is entitled to an opinion different to yours, like I said attritional posting doesn't win the argument! Edited April 19, 2019 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: That's an opinion not a fact as are your other two comparisons! The difference, Melchy is that I think you're entitled to your opinion, you don't think anyone is entitled to an opinion different to yours, like I said attritional posting doesn't win the argument! Yet again, the fact as I literally just posted is on the figures It is the exact opposite of that & reading back will confirm it. why have you got such an issue with me having a different opinion to you? All I’m doing is giving tangible evidence to why I believe it to be true. I have said many times I’m fine with anyone having a different opinion, I’m only asking how you & others arrived at it? Something no one is sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 6 hours ago, Sweeper07 said: I'm with you Oaky - it is getting so bad I am thinking of contacting the club and offering to pay the difference to ensure our fans don't get moved for every one of these games for the next decade. Would that end this war? I honestly wouldn't bet on it. 😫 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 Do any of you think you are solving this issue ? Cause I don't - sorry ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 minute ago, oaksoft said: I honestly wouldn't bet on it. 😫 Some people might be taking issue with these posts they’re obviously being forced to read but I’m sure Div won’t mind the increased website traffic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Sweeper07 said: Do any of you think you are solving this issue ? Cause I don't - sorry ! Na, I’m giving my opinion on a discussion forum. What you up to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 Jesus f**king Christ. Now he is responding to posts he wasn't referenced in or asked a question in. 😫 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Yet again, the fact as I literally just posted is on the figures It is the exact opposite of that & reading back will confirm it. why have you got such an issue with me having a different opinion to you? All I’m doing is giving tangible evidence to why I believe it to be true. I have said many times I’m fine with anyone having a different opinion, I’m only asking how you & others arrived at it? Something no one is sharing. ...............and the fact is the circumstances are different, so it becomes a matter of opinion as to how to interpret them. Edited April 19, 2019 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 Just now, oaksoft said: Jesus f**king Christ. Now he is responding to posts he wasn't referenced in or asked a question in. 😫 Oh the posts weren’t directed at us continuing to comment... now I know you might not like it but as long as there are two or more people wanting to chat on here, you have zero power to stop it. There’s been what six active posts in this section in the last day? It’s hardly bouncing, us commenting impacts your life in no way, shape or form. Just don’t read them, don’t engage, don’t comment and if you really don’t want to see them you could probably block away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: ...............and the fact is the circumstances are different, so it becomes a matter of opinion as to how to interpret them. The figures are fact, I then overwhelmingly clearly said, those facts allow me to arrive at my opinion. I genuinely don’t think I could have made that clearer What facts or details have caused you to arrive at your opinion? (This is usually where people avoid, deflect or straight up refuse to answer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, bazil85 said: The figures are fact, I then overwhelmingly clearly said, those facts allow me to arrive at my opinion. I genuinely don’t think I could have made that clearer What facts or details have caused you to arrive at your opinion? (This is usually where people avoid, deflect or straight up refuse to answer) Now we're getting somewhere you arrived at an opinion, just an opinion, not a fact - now that is a fact! Edited April 19, 2019 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 Now we're getting somewhere you arrived at an opinion, just an opinion, not a fact - now that is a fact! The old Ali Rope a Dope trick.[emoji12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 13 hours ago, Bud the Baker said: Now we're getting somewhere you arrived at an opinion, just an opinion, not a fact - now that is a fact! It’s always been the case since I started commenting. Completely transparent about it. Don’t think so? Show me where it’s been otherwise like I say, that’s usually the point where people’s bottle crashes and they don’t give me a reason for their opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted April 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 18 pages thus far and it's pretty obvious that the majority of fans want the family stand back for all of the reasons stated on this thread. The BOD should listen to their fans or as SD used to call it customers. I don't hate the OF but i love supporting my team and i hate seeing their fans in our home end.... find the money elsewhere, it's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, proudtobeabuddy said: 18 pages thus far and it's pretty obvious that the majority of fans want the family stand back for all of the reasons stated on this thread. The BOD should listen to their fans or as SD used to call it customers. I don't hate the OF but i love supporting my team and i hate seeing their fans in our home end.... find the money elsewhere, it's that simple. Although you may be right, important to remember that the vast majority of St Mirren fans don't post on here. A majority of BAW army posters do seem to agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 15 hours ago, bazil85 said: Na, I’m giving my opinion on a discussion forum. What you up to? I have no issue with you giving an opinion or hearing opposing views. It just seems that in this matter neither side is planning any agreements and so what we are constantly getting is the same kind of arguments going round and round. I am not having a go at either side - I just think the argument is not moving on - so is there value in that? All the best Bud ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, bazil85 said: It’s always been the case since I started commenting. Completely transparent about it. Don’t think so? Show me where it’s been otherwise like I say, that’s usually the point where people’s bottle crashes and they don’t give me a reason for their opinion A simple search gives 7 pages of your posts much of which is you conflating opinion with fact on very subject. https://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php?/search/&q=fact&author=bazil85&search_and_or=or I have given my reason for disagreeing with you numerous times "you're not comparing like with like" - you've just chosen to ignore this. https://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php?/search/&q=apples&author=Bud the Baker&search_and_or=or ********************** PS - It's not losing bottle to walk away from an argument with you, it's without doubt the sensible thing to do. Edited April 20, 2019 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Sweeper07 said: I have no issue with you giving an opinion or hearing opposing views. It just seems that in this matter neither side is planning any agreements and so what we are constantly getting is the same kind of arguments going round and round. I am not having a go at either side - I just think the argument is not moving on - so is there value in that? All the best Bud ! Yeah I agree with you but I’m quite enjoying it haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said: A simple search gives 7 pages of your posts much of which is you conflating opinion with fact on very subject. https://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php?/search/&q=fact&author=bazil85&search_and_or=or I have given my reason for disagreeing with you numerous times "you're not comparing like with like" - you've just chosen to ignore this. https://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php?/search/&q=apples&author=Bud the Baker&search_and_or=or ********************** PS - It's not losing bottle to walk away from an argument with you, it's without doubt the sensible thing to do. None of that is conflating opinion with fact. You saying you don’t agree because of what I provided, is not giving your reasons for thinking otherwise. Good effort though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, bazil85 said: None of that is conflating opinion with fact. You saying you don’t agree because of what I provided, is not giving your reasons for thinking otherwise. Good effort though Of course it's conflating opinion with fact, the facts are we are comparing games played on different nights of the week Mon/Wed, a month apart, one in BST during the school holidays with different parts of the ground allocated to fans and different pricing, how these facts interacted to affect the home attendance is a matter of opinion even you admitted this above, do you deny saying " those facts allow me to arrive at my opinion"? I've explained you're not comparing like with like numerous times, have quoted evidence that the increase in support is not significant - it's you who's ignoring what's been said. Yet another poor effort. Yet again we're going around in circles and I intend to let it lie here Melchett85! Edited April 20, 2019 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Bud the Baker said: Of course it's conflating opinion with fact, the facts are we are comparing games played on different nights of the week Mon/Wed, a month apart, one in BST during the school holidays with different parts of the ground allocated to fans and different pricing, how these facts interacted to affect the home attendance is a matter of opinion even you admitted this above, do you deny saying " those facts allow me to arrive at my opinion"? I've explained you're not comparing like with like numerous times - it's you who's ignoring what's been said. Yet another poor effort. I am looking at fact (which these attendance figures, season ticket sales and record crowds are) and using it to arrive at my opinion. I am not saying my opinion is fact, it is based on my interpretation of fact. Very simple I thought. The Celtic game was better attended than the Kilmarnock game so for your theory that fans are staying away in large numbers to be true it also MUST be true that school holidays, DLS (lol) & a couple degree drop in temperature have much bigger impacts to crowds than the arrangement. That is required for your view. You also have to ignore that the Celtic game was much dearer for home fans that don’t have season tickets, so that couldn’t have been a factor in crowd numbers under your theory. I went on to compare the crowds for all of our weekday games & arrived at the opinion none suggested a big drop off for the OF games. This is my opinion, and these are the facts behind how I arrived at it. You might not like me having a different one from you but it won’t change my mind. Yet again i’ll ask (i’ll Try to be clearer) WHAT EVIDENCE ARE YOU USING TO THINK ATTENDANCES DROP DRAMATICALLY BECAUSE OF THE ARRANGEMENT? Mind I’m asking for what YOU USE, not just saying mine aren’t like for like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, bazil85 said: I am looking at fact (which these attendance figures, season ticket sales and record crowds are) and using it to arrive at my opinion. I am not saying my opinion is fact, it is based on my interpretation of fact. Very simple I thought. The Celtic game was better attended than the Kilmarnock game so for your theory that fans are staying away in large numbers to be true it also MUST be true that school holidays, DLS (lol) & a couple degree drop in temperature have much bigger impacts to crowds than the arrangement. That is required for your view. You also have to ignore that the Celtic game was much dearer for home fans that don’t have season tickets, so that couldn’t have been a factor in crowd numbers under your theory. I went on to compare the crowds for all of our weekday games & arrived at the opinion none suggested a big drop off for the OF games. This is my opinion, and these are the facts behind how I arrived at it. You might not like me having a different one from you but it won’t change my mind. Yet again i’ll ask (i’ll Try to be clearer) WHAT EVIDENCE ARE YOU USING TO THINK ATTENDANCES DROP DRAMATICALLY BECAUSE OF THE ARRANGEMENT? Mind I’m asking for what YOU USE, not just saying mine aren’t like for like. After being found out over the facts/opinions issue you've had to change your tune. It doesn't bother me what you believe - my point was always that it was based on opinion not fact. As for the evidence that crowds drop for these matches show me where I've said they fall DRAMMATICALLY (a quick search will show you not since 2014 regarding Graham Carey) anyway you've quoted GLS saying so on more than one occasion something I've never challenged. A totally bizarre point perhaps from a Baz85 in a different universe or maybe you're just trying to put words in my mouth. Edited April 20, 2019 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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