The Jim Goodwin and Lee Sharp Appreciation Thread

[DougJamie]

1 hour ago, TopCat said:

 

 

Yes. Winning a penalty shoot does not constitute winning a game IMO.

 

 Comedy Gold..... England would love that theory

[TopCat]

 Comedy Gold..... England would love that theory

You win the tie but the match is a draw. Would only be comparable if all of Rangers draws this season - there’s been several - went to penalty shoot outs.
Div tweeted yesterday that we hadn’t won at Rugby Park since 2013, which was and is correct. We have won two penalty shoot outs since then right enough, League Cup Group Stage 2018 and yesterday.

[DougJamie]

5 minutes ago, TopCat said:

 

 

You win the tie but the match is a draw. Would only be comparable if all of Rangers draws this season - there’s been several - went to penalty shoot outs.

 

TC that doesn't make sense, you can draw in the league but a Cup Game is decided ,and penalties, if required, determines who WINS the tie

In the grand scheme of things just think of the term WINNERS, I am sure Killie Fans are not thinking they drew last night

[DougJamie]

Just now, Slash said:

We are fecking awesome at penalty shootouts

Well we got a lot of practice in the League Cup

We always seem to score 5,

So 0-0 in Semi and 0-0 in Final = Saints Winners 

[pod]

30 minutes ago, TopCat said:

 

Heard that, and it amazed me. In the early 90’s we were regularly buying players for six figures. We paid £400k for Stickroth. I’m not sure what Jim’s budget is, but I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t be able to spend that amount on a single player.

 

The banks used to be pretty generous then.  We ended up selling Love Street to pay our debts. 

So we won't, I'm sure, be repeating that. 

[pod]

9 minutes ago, Slash said:

We are fecking awesome at penalty shootouts

Maybe McGrath has been coaching the players. 😉

[elvis]

If it wasn't for Killie keeper with two great saves in the 90,th and then 120 th minutes we wouldn't have needed penalty shoot out that's how close we came to getting it done .

[TopCat]

TC that doesn't make sense, you can draw in the league but a Cup Game is decided ,and penalties, if required, determines who WINS the tie
In the grand scheme of things just think of the term WINNERS, I am sure Killie Fans are not thinking they drew last night

Yes I agree, we won the tie but not the match.

[TopCat]

Update:
Best points tally in a top flight season since the 80’s [emoji122]
With one game to spare!

[Slarti]

Update:
Best points tally in a top flight season since the 80’s [emoji122]
With one game to spare!

Or were there only 36 games in a season back then and we've actually played a game more.

Also, prior to 1994 (I think) it was only 2 points for a win, so not really directly comparable.

[TopCat]

Or were there only 36 games in a season back then and we've actually played a game more.

Also, prior to 1994 (I think) it was only 2 points for a win, so not really directly comparable.

89/90: 30 points after 36 games and finish 9th out of 10. Would have been 40 points with three points for a win. 1.11 points per game.
90/91 19 points after 36 games and finish bottom. Would have been 24 with three points for a win. 0.66 points per game. My word we used to be shite 🤣
91/92 24 points after 44 games. Would have been 30 points with three points for a win. 0.68 point per game. We finally got relegated that year.

This year our points per game average will be 1.16, if we lose to United at the weekend.

Every top flight season we’ve had since has been 38 games (apart from last year) and three points for a win. Points totals:
2001 30 points and relegation
2007 36 points
2008 41 points
2009 37 points
2010 34 points
2011 (DL revolution) 33 points
2012 43 points
2013 41 points
2014 39 points
2015 30 points and relegation
2019 32 points
2020 29 points after 30 games 0.97 PPG
2021 44 points after 37 games

Therefore, yes it is correct that this is our best top flight points tally since the 80’s. Remains correct even after adjusting the early 90’s seasons to three points for a win and PPG average for different season lengths.
Would have been a successful season regardless. To have achieved all this despite the Covid issues in September, the fixture pile up in February and two Hampden semi finals... [emoji122]

[Slarti]

89/90: 30 points after 36 games and finish 9th out of 10. Would have been 40 points with three points for a win. 1.11 points per game.
90/91 19 points after 36 games and finish bottom. Would have been 24 with three points for a win. 0.66 points per game. My word we used to be shite [emoji1787]
91/92 24 points after 44 games. Would have been 30 points with three points for a win. 0.68 point per game. We finally got relegated that year.

This year our points per game average will be 1.16, if we lose to United at the weekend.

Every top flight season we’ve had since has been 38 games (apart from last year) and three points for a win. Points totals:
2001 30 points and relegation
2007 36 points
2008 41 points
2009 37 points
2010 34 points
2011 (DL revolution) 33 points
2012 43 points
2013 41 points
2014 39 points
2015 30 points and relegation
2019 32 points
2020 29 points after 30 games 0.97 PPG
2021 44 points after 37 games

Therefore, yes it is correct that this is our best top flight points tally since the 80’s. Remains correct even after adjusting the early 90’s seasons to three points for a win and PPG average for different season lengths.
Would have been a successful season regardless. To have achieved all this despite the Covid issues in September, the fixture pile up in February and two Hampden semi finals... [emoji122]

Aye, as I said, not directly comparable.

[TopCat]

Aye, as I said, not directly comparable.

Well, it is. You just give three points for a win instead of two then calculate the difference.

[Slarti]

Well, it is. You just give three points for a win instead of two then calculate the difference.

Aye, so not directly comparable.

[TopCat]

Aye, so not directly comparable.

In the sense that nothing is directly comparable or...?

[Slarti]

In the sense that nothing is directly comparable or...?

FFS, it isn't difficult. If you have to manipulate the data before comparison then it isn't DIRECTLY comparable.

[TopCat]

FFS, it isn't difficult. If you have to manipulate the data before comparison then it isn't DIRECTLY comparable.

My point was that this is the best top flight points tally since the 80’s, which is factually correct.
You then pointed out this wasn’t a fair comparison due to two points for a win in the early 90’s.
So then compared the two based on three points for a win, which still makes this season as the best top flight season since the 80’s. Now it’s not directly comparable 🤣

[Slarti]

My point was that this is the best top flight points tally since the 80’s, which is factually correct.
You then pointed out this wasn’t a fair comparison due to two points for a win in the early 90’s.
So then compared the two based on three points for a win, which still makes this season as the best top flight season since the 80’s. Now it’s not directly comparable [emoji1787]

You mentioned "a game to spare" when, in reality, we have played a game more than some seasons.

Also, my first reply to you said DIRECTLY COMPARABLE (see below), so what are you whinging about.

Are you really saying that if you have to manipulate the data to get something directly comparable it means that the original data was directly comparable?

I never disagreed that we have more points, I just pointed out the fallacy of using only points as a yardstick.

Or were there only 36 games in a season back then and we've actually played a game more.

Also, prior to 1994 (I think) it was only 2 points for a win, so not really directly comparable.

[stlucifer]

40 minutes ago, Slarti said:

You mentioned "a game to spare" when, in reality, we have played a game more than some seasons.

Also, my first reply to you said DIRECTLY COMPARABLE (see below), so what are you whinging about.

Are you really saying that if you have to manipulate the data to get something directly comparable it means that the original data was directly comparable?

I never disagreed that we have more points, I just pointed out the fallacy of using only points as a yardstick.

 

I'm with Topcat on this.  As far as I can see, in your opinion,  NO season can be compared to any other as there are many variables to consider. On this premise, no one should suggest we're better/worse/ the same as we were in previous years as it would depend on how good/bad/mediocre the opposition players/teams/coaches/pitches are. I think you're being a little pedantic.

[Slarti]

I'm with Topcat on this.  As far as I can see, in your opinion,  NO season can be compared to any other as there are many variables to consider. On this premise, no one should suggest we're better/worse/ the same as we were in previous years as it would depend on how good/bad/mediocre the opposition players/teams/coaches/pitches are. I think you're being a little pedantic.

He was talking about points gained and games played (or, actually, games left to play) and that's what I pointed out the flaws in. The teams in the league, the players who are in those teams, the types of surface, the weather or anything else was irrelevant to the point he was making. I just addressed his points.

[stlucifer]

Just now, Slarti said:

27 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

I'm with Topcat on this.  As far as I can see, in your opinion,  NO season can be compared to any other as there are many variables to consider. On this premise, no one should suggest we're better/worse/ the same as we were in previous years as it would depend on how good/bad/mediocre the opposition players/teams/coaches/pitches are. I think you're being a little pedantic.

He was talking about points gained and games played (or, actually, games left to play) and that's what I pointed out the flaws in. The teams in the league, the players who are in those teams, the types of surface, the weather or anything else was irrelevant to the point he was making. I just addressed his points.

Which is why I consider you're being pedantic. If you think judgements can indeed be made on how much we have developed, what would you gauge it on?

[Slarti]

Which is why I consider you're being pedantic. If you think judgements can indeed be made on how much we have developed, what would you gauge it on?

I'm being pedantic because I only addressed the points he mentioned???

Really???

Nobody was talking about how we have developed or how to measure it, so why are you bringing that up?

[stlucifer]

1 minute ago, Slarti said:

I'm being pedantic because I only addressed the EXACT points he mentioned??? By suggesting the theory he put out was flawed due to nothing being EXACTLY the same

Really???

Nobody was talking about how we have developed or how to measure it, so why are you bringing that up?

Why else do you think Topcat took the time to, firstly, suggest the team have done better results wise, then, when you challenged him on his figures because the seasons were different, took time to adjust for points variation and or season length, showing that that was still the case?

[Slarti]

Why else do you think Topcat took the time to, firstly, suggest the team have done better results wise, then, when you challenged him on his figures because the seasons were different, took time to adjust for points variation and or season length, showing that that was still the case?

What he did afterwards is totally irrelevant to my response to his post (shown below) where he only mentioned "points tally" and games "to spare".

It's not really difficult to understand. He made specific points, I addressed only those points, so what is your issue with it?

Update:
Best points tally in a top flight season since the 80’s [emoji122]
With one game to spare!

[oaksoft]

10 minutes ago, Slarti said:

 

 

What he did afterwards is totally irrelevant to my response to his post (shown below) where he only mentioned "points tally" and games "to spare".

It's not really difficult to understand. He made specific points, I addressed only those points, so what is your issue with it?


 

 

Yeah, as much as I see what you trying to do, I'm with Top Cat here too.

His point is perfectly reasonable and you know very well what he's trying to say you wee trouble-making rascal you.

You've got to remember he's not as far as I am aware a mathematician and isn't presenting a formal proof complete with definitions. He's just making a comparative point that we haven't had this good a season since a time in the very distant past when you were still able to sustain an erection without external aids such as splints, pills and so forth.

He's actually gone beyond the call of duty to convert 2 point games into 3 points in a futile attempt to satisfy your pedantry. If I had known in advance he was going to try, I'd have stopped him from wasting his time.

I'm with him on this. 1981 we're looking at I think (if you include 2 Cup semi finals).

ETA. Blimey. We were still shutting shops at half day on a Wednesday and not allowing anything to open on a Sunday.

Edited May 13, 2021 by oaksoft