Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 30, 2020 Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 Everyone else is having an adult conversation on this thread except you and Baz. You guys really need to drop this nonsense.Are you now denying that you stayed that the folk dying from covid woukdve died soon anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted July 30, 2020 Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sue Denim said: I have plantar fasciitis at the moment and gave up cycling 3 years ago and sold my bike. My only means of real cardio was to go to the gym. I had plantar fasciitis several years ago and it didn't really stop me walking/running to any great degree. Although periodically there were times when I had to take some time off. A steroid injection into the sole of my foot eventually sorted it. Edited July 30, 2020 by FTOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 More fascist lunacy from the U.K. government last night. And do they really think that the people who they aiming this at will actually abide by it? Obviously they won’t - and quite right too. My prediction still stands. Another lockdown is heading our way this winter. Unless of course we can completely eradicate Covid (and therefore influenza and the common cold) before then 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Covid deaths on the rise in Australia. Who could have forseen that? Apart from me obviously. It is winter down there after all. Doh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) As I keep saying, if you test more people and test new people you didn’t test before then you’ll find more cases. But if the % of positive tests isn’t on the increase then you’ve nothing to worry about. And if hospitalisations aren’t on the rise then you’ve nothing to worry about. The fact that the vast majority of people who get this virus are asymptomatic shows that, for the vast majority of people, this virus is nothing. Chasing down handfuls of ‘cases’ in isolated parts of the country is madness and useless. Latest ONS survey estimates that 27,000 people in England last week. While the government are locking down whole cities and chasing down the contacts of a few people who’ve tested positive with a faulty test, the other 27,000 are still walking about out there! Quarantine for the fit and healthy, shutting up the NHS and abandoning the vulnerable has been a complete disaster. But hey, the woke got to do their virtue signalling on full pay. 👍 Edited July 31, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Aye that's some winter from March to August that the USA are having this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, Sue Denim said: As I keep saying, if you test more people and test new people you didn’t test before then you’ll find more cases. But if the % of positive tests isn’t on the increase then you’ve nothing to worry about. And if hospitalisations aren’t on the rise then you’ve nothing to worry about. The fact that the vast majority of people who get this virus are asymptomatic shows that, for the vast majority of people, this virus is nothing. Chasing down handfuls of ‘cases’ in isolated parts of the country is madness and useless. Latest ONS survey estimates that 27,000 people in England last week. While the government are locking down whole cities and chasing down the contacts of a few people who’ve tested positive with a faulty test, the other 27,000 are still walking about out there! Quarantine for the fit and healthy, shutting up the NHS and abandoning the vulnerable has been a complete disaster. But hey, the woke got to do their virtue signalling on full pay. 👍 Isn't it interesting that both the percentage of positive tests and the number of hospital admissions began to drop 2-3 weeks after the lockdown was introduced in late March? 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, smcc said: Isn't it interesting that both the percentage of positive tests and the number of hospital admissions began to drop 2-3 weeks after the lockdown was introduced in late March? 🙄 Post hoc ergo propter hoc - look it up You’ll remember that we came out of winter and into some good weather around the time that positive tests and hospital admissions began to drop. And the drop happened at exactly the same time in Sweden. Meanwhile, over in South America, where countries went into lockdown before us, they’re only just teaching their peak funny that King Canute 🤷🏻♂️ Edited July 31, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) Good article @Bud the Baker couple of good quotes below “One has to wonder, how did this come about? Why weren’t we behaving this way before, when seasonal influenza is known to kill up to 650,000 people globally every single year? Why didn’t anyone ever care about saving all of those millions of people? If we really can stop infections, we murdered all of them!” “Bad guys love to claim the good guys are doing what they are actually doing. You can usually find the good guys by looking at who is standing alone.” https://medium.com/@staceyrudin/superstition-in-the-pigeon-can-lockdowns-really-stop-death-62bf3bc885a0 Edited July 31, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sue Denim said: Post hoc ergo propter hoc - look it up You’ll remember that we came out of winter and into some good weather around the time that positive tests and hospital admissions began to drop. And the drop happened at exactly the same time in Sweden. Meanwhile, over in South America, where countries went into lockdown before us, they’re only just teaching their peak funny that King Canute 🤷🏻♂️ You do realise that it is winter in South America just now? And I am well aware of the meaning your quoted Latin phrase. It could equally apply to the introduction of the lockdown. Edited July 31, 2020 by smcc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, smcc said: You do realise that it is winter in South America just now? Well, yes! That’s my point! As an example, Peru went into lockdown before U.K., Sweden and Brazil didn’t go into lockdown. See graph 1 below. And the second graph shows how it’s faring up in the US Lockdown can’t explain the shape of the epidemic in these countries and states. Third graph is Edgar Hope Simpson’s chart on the seasonality of these types of viruses. Seasonality seems a better bet at explaining the top 2 graphs than lockdown, particularly as lockdown didn’t happen in 2 of the countries and some of the states, wouldn’t you agree? Edited July 31, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Good news story and an example of how it's not just about the death toll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Three times as many people now dying of the flu than Covid. If it were all about saving lives then surely we’d be testing and contact tracing for flu? https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/22/nearly-three-times-people-dying-flu-pneumonia-coronavirus-13021417/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: Good news story and an example of how it's not just about the death toll. TPAFTWAT getting in a bit of virtue signalling Edited July 31, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Sue Denim said: More fascist lunacy from the U.K. government last night. And do they really think that the people who they aiming this at will actually abide by it? Obviously they won’t - and quite right too. My prediction still stands. Another lockdown is heading our way this winter. Unless of course we can completely eradicate Covid (and therefore influenza and the common cold) before then 😂 Many people have predicted that as a possibility for a long time, sorry to rob you of any "told you so" moment. If the evidence points to another lockdown being needed, it should be implemented sooner than it was last time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldorf34 Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 24 minutes ago, Sue Denim said: Three times as many people now dying of the flu than Covid. If it were all about saving lives then surely we’d be testing and contact tracing for flu? https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/22/nearly-three-times-people-dying-flu-pneumonia-coronavirus-13021417/ The article says flu and pneumonia does not give you the split so you cannot say more people are dying of the flu than covid 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Sue Denim said: Well, yes! That’s my point! As an example, Peru went into lockdown before U.K., Sweden and Brazil didn’t go into lockdown. See graph 1 below. And the second graph shows how it’s faring up in the US Lockdown can’t explain the shape of the epidemic in these countries and states. Third graph is Edgar Hope Simpson’s chart on the seasonality of these types of viruses. Seasonality seems a better bet at explaining the top 2 graphs than lockdown, particularly as lockdown didn’t happen in 2 of the countries and some of the states, wouldn’t you agree? Was it Homer Simpson that said you can use statistics to prove anything? Andy is showing why that was a joke. Latin America Covid19 cases. Your graph ignores (as you often do) potential caveats. For example, did you know Peru has a population density almost three times that of Brazil? Did you know Venezuela has OVER three times the population density as Brazil and is in the midst of a humanitarian crisis? Venezuela locked down roughly the same time as Peru and has only had 158 deaths. So I must ask, why do you disregard telling us about Venezuela but often bring up Peru? Is it cherry picking possibly? There is an actual reason I bring up Venezuela though, do you think their recording has been accurate? That's the bottom line of these comparisons, there are concerns globally with reporting and capability, so much of the data we get may not be reliable. You ignore this and want an absolute solution where we never had lockdown measures and to hell with what happens. It's ridiculous. As for your seasonal points on Covid19, there is every chance there is a seasonal link to temperature but it's largely irrelevant right now regarding lockdown and restrictions. We know Covid19 survives in varied world temperatures, still infects and kills people. Yes we need to understand more about the link to temperature to prepare for the winter but it doesn't impact the virus ability to spread in warmer temperatures. here's the worst impacted countries by cases per million. Qatar - temperature average in January to July 37 degrees French Guiana - temperature average January - May 29 degrees San Marino - annual average 18.1 degrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Sadly, this accounts for a lot of the death toll @bazil85 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/son-says-elderly-mum-written-22447241 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, Sue Denim said: Sadly, this accounts for a lot of the death toll @bazil85 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/son-says-elderly-mum-written-22447241 Very sad, there was always going to be heartbreak in this pandemic. A solution where everyone lived and no story like this existed just isn't realistic. Let's just be grateful there was a lockdown to curb this virus or else vastly increased transmission would have resulted in far more stories like this as the NHS became overwhelmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Was it Homer Simpson that said you can use statistics to prove anything? Andy is showing why that was a joke. Latin America Covid19 cases. Your graph ignores (as you often do) potential caveats. For example, did you know Peru has a population density almost three times that of Brazil? Did you know Venezuela has OVER three times the population density as Brazil and is in the midst of a humanitarian crisis? Venezuela locked down roughly the same time as Peru and has only had 158 deaths. So I must ask, why do you disregard telling us about Venezuela but often bring up Peru? Is it cherry picking possibly? There is an actual reason I bring up Venezuela though, do you think their recording has been accurate? That's the bottom line of these comparisons, there are concerns globally with reporting and capability, so much of the data we get may not be reliable. You ignore this and want an absolute solution where we never had lockdown measures and to hell with what happens. It's ridiculous. Baz, you do realise that Peru has the same population density as Sweden right? You do realise that the people of Brazil don’t spread themselves evenly throughout the country? You do realise that most people in Brazil don’t live in the Amazon jungle don’t you? Most people in Peru and Brazil live in urban populations. The population densities are similar. The reason I chose Peru is because it’s next to Brazil..... you like to compare Sweden with its neighbours don’t you? Believing numbers from Venezuela would be akin to believing numbers from Belarus..... now there’s another country with no lockdown and few deaths. But none of this gets away from the main point - the shape of the mortality graphs throughout the world follow seasonality. And here’s Venezuela for you Edited July 31, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 24 minutes ago, bazil85 said: As for your seasonal points on Covid19, there is every chance there is a seasonal link to temperature but it's largely irrelevant right now regarding lockdown and restrictions. We know Covid19 survives in varied world temperatures, still infects and kills people. Yes we need to understand more about the link to temperature to prepare for the winter but it doesn't impact the virus ability to spread in warmer temperatures. here's the worst impacted countries by cases per million. Qatar - temperature average in January to July 37 degrees French Guiana - temperature average January - May 29 degrees San Marino - annual average 18. Why do you think there is a seasonal link to temperature? There you go again, Post hoc ergo propter hoc. There are various theories as to what the seasonality link is and temperature is just one of them. I personally don’t think the seasonality aspect is linked to temperature and you show good reasons why. Thanks for making my point. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Very sad, there was always going to be heartbreak in this pandemic. A solution where everyone lived and no story like this existed just isn't realistic. Let's just be grateful there was a lockdown to curb this virus or else vastly increased transmission would have resulted in far more stories like this as the NHS became overwhelmed. It was the lockdown that did in fact increase the transmission - into care homes. Thus story is not isolated. In my opinion this story accounts for the majority of care home deaths during this crisis. We quarantined those unlikely to be affected by the virus and spread amongst those who would. And to compound it, we threw them out of hospitals, denied them NHS treatment and abandoned them to die. Deep down you know that’s what happened. This is a man made disaster. Shame on you for supporting it and shame on those continuing to allow it to happen. All fit the sake of a virtue signalling agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sue Denim said: Baz, you do realise that Peru has the same population density as Sweden right? You do realise that the people of Brazil don’t spread themselves evenly throughout the country? You do realise that most people in Brazil don’t live in the Amazon jungle don’t you? Most people in Peru and Brazil live in urban populations. The population densities are similar. The reason I chose Peru is because it’s next to Brazil..... you like to compare Sweden with its neighbours don’t you? Believing numbers from Venezuela would be akin to believing numbers from Belarus..... now there’s another country with no lockdown and few deaths. But none of this gets away from the main point - the shape of the mortality graphs throughout the world follow seasonality. And here’s Venezuela for you Point one and point two contradict each other and further validate my view. You cherry pick information and refuse to look at bigger picture. There are a magnitude of factors, many of which are not knowing at this time that has collectively attributed to this awful pandemic. You looking at points in isolation doesn't work. You don't know the full picture regarding this before the collective scientific community, thinking you do tilts between ignorance and arrogance. I have tried to show you that by giving you points in isolation that contradict your worldview. Yet again, I am not saying they are the only factors to use, I am pointing out the lack of sense in your tactics. It is only the "main point" to you because in isolation it backs your view, it will never stop being the case that we have to look and understand far more data. Again playing your game Deaths in Brazil - 91,000 Deaths in Argentina - 3.400 Deaths in Sweden - 5,700 Deaths in Denmark, Finland and Norway combined - 1,197 Wow look at that, some stats in isolation destroy your point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, Sue Denim said: Why do you think there is a seasonal link to temperature? There you go again, Post hoc ergo propter hoc. There are various theories as to what the seasonality link is and temperature is just one of them. I personally don’t think the seasonality aspect is linked to temperature and you show good reasons why. Thanks for making my point. 👍 But you accept that we don't know enough details regarding seasonality? Thanks for making my point and showing your view is ignorant as you lack enough data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, bazil85 said: But you accept that we don't know enough details regarding seasonality? Yes, I’ve made that point many times and that was the point in my reply! Thanks for making my point and showing your view is ignorant as you lack enough data. My view is that we don’t know what causes the seasonality effect. How does that make your point and show that my point is ignorant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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