10000 Hours Q&A Thread

[Robo]

Like I said bud, wasn't directed at you. Just thought instead of having some divvy trying to explain the structure on here it may be better to look at one of the websites on the subject. Reading some of the stuff on here, it's clear that there are some who seem to have plenty to say but they have failed to grasp the basic concept of the CIC.

Like I said, was never directed at you. More the eejit further back in the thread! Sorry!

Nae bother bud, was hoping for an answer from 10,000 hours as I've not got the inclination to go away and do a load of research. It's not a deal-breaker for me - I'm quite happy with the proposal, without wanting to go into every detail. I'll look into it a bit more before I launch my election campaign!

Edited April 27, 2011 by Robo

[bonzoboys]

Not sure how to word this question, RA's own description was that a CIC stands between a Charity and Ltd Company. If a Charity applies to a funder, one of the first things it is asked for is its Constitution i.e. outline it's aims and the guidelines as to the way it will operate. I guess a CIC has a similar document, does one exist for 10000hours. If so can it be published?

We have heard a lot of statements with nobody seeing what binds it all together. CIC sounds great but a bit worried about how it is all controlled and tied together. For example who can change the "constitution" - the Exec Board, the CIC Board, a vote by members? Do not want to get involved then find that all the real operational control is in the hands of the few. I find myself having to read hundreds of posts and answers to pick up little facts.

Asked previously, but never got a reply - who owns the vehicle called "10000hours" Is it a vehicle owned by RA or does it in fact exist as the entity buying the 52%. If RA goes elsewhere and starts another CIC does the CIC stay put.

Thanks.

Added this morning after visting CIC web page - Richard - apologies if getting a bit deep in to how CIC operates and am aware that a little information taken in isolation is very dangerous.

From CIC Guidance Document

To form a new CIC you need to deliver the following documents to the appropriate Registrar of Companies for England and Wales, Scotland, or Northern Ireland:

•

Memorandum of association

•

A printed copy of the articles of association that comply with the requirements imposed by section 18 of the Companies Act 2006 Act and part 3 of the Community Interest Company Regulations, or which are otherwise appropriate in connection with being a community interest company. Please note that a CIC cannot rely on the default articles under section 20 of the Companies Act 2006. The link will take model articles for different types of CICs and model articles with explanatory notes.

•

Form IN01. Requires details of the company’s proposed name; whether limited by shares or guarantee public or private; the first directors (and secretary if applicable), the intended situation of registered office; a statement of compliance etc.

•

A form CIC36. Requires the company’s community interest statement. The purpose of the community interest statement is to confirm that the company will provide benefit to the community. It does this by describing its intended activities who they will help and how. The link will take you to a copy of the form and an example of a completed form.

Are these documents available for public consumption. Appreciate they may be a bit of heavy reading.

Edited April 28, 2011 by bonzoboys

[Kemp]

Having a go at the CIC??? I've already pledged my membership - I was just interested in how the CIC is structured....

Referring to my questions above, it is this type of post that worries me.

Does nobody else have the sensation of this being rushed through? We are assured proper due diligence has been carried out. I'd really just like to see some more evidence of that.

Again, I think a CIC running the club is an incredibly exciting idea. The amount of debt we are talking about is not.

[10000hours]

If the CiC had to sell the 52% of the shares for some unforeseen reason in the future, where would the money go?

The Money would irstly go to pay off any remaining debt and any surplus would (under the assest lock rules) be retained by the CIC for the membership to decide, subject to the 10000hours mem and arts, what to do with it.

It could not be paid out to any individuals enabling them to get rich out of the process.

10000hours CIC

[10000hours]

Is the CIC a limited company, and if so does it have its own shareholders? Who owns the CIC - is it the members, or shareholders, or the exec board, or none of the above?

No a CIC is a type of organisation in its own right, like a sole trader or an LLP.

CIC's can either be ltd by garantee or by shares.

10000hours is ltd by shares, for some technical reasons, by these shares DO NOT work the same way as you would normal shares where you can buy and sell them and indivuduals can make money.

10000hours CIC

[steve_the_saint]

Ok, tried starting a new topic for this but didn't really get the answer I was looking for.....

Will the individual memberships be limited to one per person?

I know there are different types of membership but its a bit of a jump in price from a tenner a month to a eg. one off 3000.

If I felt I could afford 40 or 50 quid a month, could I have 4 or 5 individual memberships and therefore 4 or 5 votes or would I still have one vote and the rest would be considered a donation?

...I'll try.refreshing this and see if 10000hours can reply....

[bonzoboys]

No a CIC is a type of organisation in its own right, like a sole trader or an LLP.

CIC's can either be ltd by garantee or by shares.

10000hours is ltd by shares, for some technical reasons, by these shares DO NOT work the same way as you would normal shares where you can buy and sell them and indivuduals can make money.

10000hours CIC

How do the shares work and who controls them?

[Guest somner9]

are all these posters that answer questions part of 10000 hours?

i thought it was a thread where 10000 hours had agreed graciously to a Q&A

if the posters without the user name "10000 hours" are part of that entity they sure need to brush up on their PR skills and "Real" knowledge of their proposal before answering "Q"'s

[Guest somner9]

Q (10000 hours only please)

why are you waiting till after your proposed deal is set before engaging with Season Ticket Holders, Match by Match ticket purchasers (i.e. people that Actually put money into the club) etc? i find that an astonishing dismissal of the majority of the support of SMFC.

if as you say your proposal only works if the community gets behind it! why have you left the "Real St Mirren Community" out of the loop??? shouldn't a community based project actually start with "The Community"?

wouldn't a community based project be what the community wants, i.e. they decide how its set up, how its financed, what the democratic structure is, what type of businesses they want to do business with, what community groups they want to involve and be part of it, what board structure should be in place, one member, one vote! no multi-layered board system

i appreciate on this website you have reached st mirren fans, but the numbers compared to 2000 STH and the others that put money into the club is small.

why haven't you engaged with the community? i don't accept it would costs thousands to write to each STH, Shareholder, or give a leaflet out at the first home game of the season last year. it is apparent you want this on your terms, thats ok, but please when you say community please be honest who you really mean.

Edited April 28, 2011 by somner9

[Big Fras]

To the 10000 hours chap(s)...

Q1.Echoing a point I madfe on another thread, can we just get some form of clarification as to why it was deemed acceptable that getting 300 fans to back the bid was seen as a mark of approval for the CIC to proceed.

RA has said that the fans backing was critical, yet the target figure was only 300 as clearly stated on the TTH website. To clearly identify/target only 10% of those who attend games now (and in effect an even smaller % of the supporter base at large) as a mandate for approval of the CIC bid is highly questionable, and a contradiction to the statements about needing the backing of the fans.

Q2.I have stated that I think with some good PR/marketing, the supporter involvement could top 1000, and this would be great for a number of reasons. There is a growing/grumbling (don't just listen to forums !) view that the changes are being "forced through" with the backing of the minority of fans, as the majority don't know enough about it.

To get 1000+ fans on board, before actioning the bid, would demonstrate that a sizeable chunk of the supporter base are firmly/financially behind the plan. At the moment it comes across as that some sizeable business, plus local community groups are driving the bid, backed by a small % of the St.Mirren support, and that just doesn't seem right.

Can you please clarify what plans are in place to get as many Buddies aware of the CIC bid in the immediate future.

Suggestions that I know from my own commercial experience do not cost thousands, and can be actioned very quickly:

Leafleting at turnstiles for next home games

Programme inserts

Mailshots to the databases of ST holders, those who have bought tickets, those who have bought mail order merchandise; B&W Mag database

[Gruffalo]

Not sure how to word this question, RA's own description was that a CIC stands between a Charity and Ltd Company. If a Charity applies to a funder, one of the first things it is asked for is its Constitution i.e. outline it's aims and the guidelines as to the way it will operate. I guess a CIC has a similar document, does one exist for 10000hours. If so can it be published?

We have heard a lot of statements with nobody seeing what binds it all together. CIC sounds great but a bit worried about how it is all controlled and tied together. For example who can change the "constitution" - the Exec Board, the CIC Board, a vote by members? Do not want to get involved then find that all the real operational control is in the hands of the few. I find myself having to read hundreds of posts and answers to pick up little facts.

Asked previously, but never got a reply - who owns the vehicle called "10000hours" Is it a vehicle owned by RA or does it in fact exist as the entity buying the 52%. If RA goes elsewhere and starts another CIC does the CIC stay put.

Thanks.

Added this morning after visting CIC web page - Richard - apologies if getting a bit deep in to how CIC operates and am aware that a little information taken in isolation is very dangerous.

From CIC Guidance Document

To form a new CIC you need to deliver the following documents to the appropriate Registrar of Companies for England and Wales, Scotland, or Northern Ireland:

•

Memorandum of association

•

A printed copy of the articles of association that comply with the requirements imposed by section 18 of the Companies Act 2006 Act and part 3 of the Community Interest Company Regulations, or which are otherwise appropriate in connection with being a community interest company. Please note that a CIC cannot rely on the default articles under section 20 of the Companies Act 2006. The link will take model articles for different types of CICs and model articles with explanatory notes.

•

Form IN01. Requires details of the company’s proposed name; whether limited by shares or guarantee public or private; the first directors (and secretary if applicable), the intended situation of registered office; a statement of compliance etc.

•

A form CIC36. Requires the company’s community interest statement. The purpose of the community interest statement is to confirm that the company will provide benefit to the community. It does this by describing its intended activities who they will help and how. The link will take you to a copy of the form and an example of a completed form.

Are these documents available for public consumption. Appreciate they may be a bit of heavy reading.

Basic info free on Companies House. You would need to buy the rest

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/b25047b1ff8dbbd239df89550f56224b/wcprodorder?ft=1

[bonzoboys]

Basic info free on Companies House. You would need to buy the rest

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/b25047b1ff8dbbd239df89550f56224b/wcprodorder?ft=1

Thanks for link- paid my £2 and bought a copy of documents. Quick read this afternoon

Interesting £100 of shares held by Christopher Stewart (guess that a technicality in setting up business)

No mention in documents of memberships, members voting for boards etc - in fact no mention of St Mirren anywhere.

Edited April 28, 2011 by bonzoboys

[Stuart Dickson]

Thanks for link- paid my £2 and bought a copy of documents. Quick read this afternoon

Interesting £100 of shares held by Christopher Stewart (guess that a technicality in setting up business)

No mention in documents of memberships, members voting for boards etc - in fact no mention of St Mirren anywhere.

Bonzo, are you perhaps looking in the wrong place? Did you try 10,000 hours CIC?

[bonzoboys]

Not that I am aware. Link to company is

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/0937bb4672467d125d27a414a7224169/compdetails

Director is Richard.

Am hoping that 10000 hours will address my question rather than other forum members.

I think we are all searching for as much info as possible. Do not get me wrong, may be digging for full story but do actually like the idea and have pledged.

[10000hours]

Ok, tried starting a new topic for this but didn't really get the answer I was looking for.....

Will the individual memberships be limited to one per person?

I know there are different types of membership but its a bit of a jump in price from a tenner a month to a eg. one off 3000.

If I felt I could afford 40 or 50 quid a month, could I have 4 or 5 individual memberships and therefore 4 or 5 votes or would I still have one vote and the rest would be considered a donation?

A number of poeple have approached us with a similar point.

Bascially that they feel they would be happy to contribute more than GBP10 per month but could not take the step up to the next level which is basically the 87 club 3k membership.

At the risk of muddying the waters, here are a couple of suggesttions that have been made by the individuals concerned.

Firstly that you could actually buy a "community membership" for an organisation of your choice. Say you are involved with a BB company or a youth football team, perhaps you could buy them a community membership and you could effectivly become their sponsor...............what do folk think?

Secondly, you could take out an individual membership for GBP10 per month but opt to pay a bit more (whatever you could afford) and this could be ring fenced to go directly to the player budget. Thus your individual membership helps the CIC take control, but the fact you can afford a little bit more means that you now know it goes straight onto the park..............thoughts?

We like both suggestions, but it is important not to lose focus at this early stage of just gettig the deal done first, but we would welcome any feedback on this issue.

10000hours CIC

[10000hours]

Q (10000 hours only please)

why are you waiting till after your proposed deal is set before engaging with Season Ticket Holders, Match by Match ticket purchasers (i.e. people that Actually put money into the club) etc? i find that an astonishing dismissal of the majority of the support of SMFC.

if as you say your proposal only works if the community gets behind it! why have you left the "Real St Mirren Community" out of the loop??? shouldn't a community based project actually start with "The Community"?

wouldn't a community based project be what the community wants, i.e. they decide how its set up, how its financed, what the democratic structure is, what type of businesses they want to do business with, what community groups they want to involve and be part of it, what board structure should be in place, one member, one vote! no multi-layered board system

i appreciate on this website you have reached st mirren fans, but the numbers compared to 2000 STH and the others that put money into the club is small.

why haven't you engaged with the community? i don't accept it would costs thousands to write to each STH, Shareholder, or give a leaflet out at the first home game of the season last year. it is apparent you want this on your terms, thats ok, but please when you say community please be honest who you really mean.

Other than the fact that we have not so far issued lots of paper based information to reach those who do not use computers, we totally reject the premise of your question that somehow we have not "engaged with the community"

It is only possible to do so much at the one time, if you disagree with the order in which we have enaged with the supporter base of SMFC and the wider population of Renfrewshire then we have no problem with that, it is just the order we decided upon

There are 2500 season ticket holders, 900 shoreholder and 4500+ people on the club database.

Assume that we send details to 4500 people using second class post with a letter that includes some of the documents currently avaliable for download plus a cover letter and a return SAO plus the cost of the envelope itself, then i think you can see that is will cost at least a couple of thousand pounds to do this, so it made much more sense to first check using online media that the base level of support was there first before spending money on the hard copy media send.

Again, you may have chosen a different way of doing it, but we are certainly not trying to "dismiss" people who are a vital part of the club as it stands just now.

I think the 1200 people how signed up for information and the 550+ who have now pledged would find it odd that you do not consider them to be part of the ""Real St Mirren Community"

and that the approx 400 people who have either attended one of the Public, SMISA or travel club meetings where the 10000hours team have done a presentation would not consider themselves to be "out of the loop" as well as the dozens that have made appointments to speak to one of the 10000hours team face to face, you are more than welcome to make an [email protected] if you like.

10000hours CIC

[10000hours]

To the 10000 hours chap(s)...

Q1.Echoing a point I madfe on another thread, can we just get some form of clarification as to why it was deemed acceptable that getting 300 fans to back the bid was seen as a mark of approval for the CIC to proceed.

RA has said that the fans backing was critical, yet the target figure was only 300 as clearly stated on the TTH website. To clearly identify/target only 10% of those who attend games now (and in effect an even smaller % of the supporter base at large) as a mandate for approval of the CIC bid is highly questionable, and a contradiction to the statements about needing the backing of the fans.

Q2.I have stated that I think with some good PR/marketing, the supporter involvement could top 1000, and this would be great for a number of reasons. There is a growing/grumbling (don't just listen to forums !) view that the changes are being "forced through" with the backing of the minority of fans, as the majority don't know enough about it.

To get 1000+ fans on board, before actioning the bid, would demonstrate that a sizeable chunk of the supporter base are firmly/financially behind the plan. At the moment it comes across as that some sizeable business, plus local community groups are driving the bid, backed by a small % of the St.Mirren support, and that just doesn't seem right.

Can you please clarify what plans are in place to get as many Buddies aware of the CIC bid in the immediate future.

Suggestions that I know from my own commercial experience do not cost thousands, and can be actioned very quickly:

Leafleting at turnstiles for next home games

Programme inserts

Mailshots to the databases of ST holders, those who have bought tickets, those who have bought mail order merchandise; B&W Mag database

We appreciate your comments and you have made a resonable point with regards to the 300 number.

This number is based on the business plan that produces the revenue to fund the purchase. It was a number that the funders are happy with.

It has always been the case that the more numbers we get the better and to now be close to double the "pledges" with the infomation still largely being diseminated on line is being viewed as a success by those in the background.

However we agree with you, with a fair wind we think we could make it to 4 figures and as outlined in the document we would love for the member board to one day decide to reduec the cost of the membership because it has become so popular...........but at the end of the day we had to start somewhere and we chose, rightly or wrongly 300.

An number of you hard copy suggestions are in hand for the St Johnston game and the databases you refer to have already been mailed.

If you are considering becoming a member youself and feel you have skills that you could bring to the party we would love to hear from you, if you are willing to help the process and inject your skills and energy.

10000hours CIC

[Drew]

A number of poeple have approached us with a similar point.

Bascially that they feel they would be happy to contribute more than GBP10 per month but could not take the step up to the next level which is basically the 87 club 3k membership.

At the risk of muddying the waters, here are a couple of suggesttions that have been made by the individuals concerned.

Firstly that you could actually buy a "community membership" for an organisation of your choice. Say you are involved with a BB company or a youth football team, perhaps you could buy them a community membership and you could effectivly become their sponsor...............what do folk think?

Secondly, you could take out an individual membership for GBP10 per month but opt to pay a bit more (whatever you could afford) and this could be ring fenced to go directly to the player budget. Thus your individual membership helps the CIC take control, but the fact you can afford a little bit more means that you now know it goes straight onto the park..............thoughts?

We like both suggestions, but it is important not to lose focus at this early stage of just gettig the deal done first, but we would welcome any feedback on this issue.

10000hours CIC

I think both suggestions are excellent. The ring-fencing of additional money will appeal to those who might question exactly how their membership fees trickle down to the playing side of things on a quantifiable and tangible basis.

The 'sponsoring' idea is also a positive idea in that this will allow the community organisation to benefit, while the club will also experience a positive spin-off. Seems like a win/win to me. All credit to those who made the suggestions.

[10000hours]

Not sure how to word this question, RA's own description was that a CIC stands between a Charity and Ltd Company. If a Charity applies to a funder, one of the first things it is asked for is its Constitution i.e. outline it's aims and the guidelines as to the way it will operate. I guess a CIC has a similar document, does one exist for 10000hours. If so can it be published?

We have heard a lot of statements with nobody seeing what binds it all together. CIC sounds great but a bit worried about how it is all controlled and tied together. For example who can change the "constitution" - the Exec Board, the CIC Board, a vote by members? Do not want to get involved then find that all the real operational control is in the hands of the few. I find myself having to read hundreds of posts and answers to pick up little facts.

Asked previously, but never got a reply - who owns the vehicle called "10000hours" Is it a vehicle owned by RA or does it in fact exist as the entity buying the 52%. If RA goes elsewhere and starts another CIC does the CIC stay put.

Thanks.

Added this morning after visting CIC web page - Richard - apologies if getting a bit deep in to how CIC operates and am aware that a little information taken in isolation is very dangerous.

From CIC Guidance Document

To form a new CIC you need to deliver the following documents to the appropriate Registrar of Companies for England and Wales, Scotland, or Northern Ireland:

•

Memorandum of association

•

A printed copy of the articles of association that comply with the requirements imposed by section 18 of the Companies Act 2006 Act and part 3 of the Community Interest Company Regulations, or which are otherwise appropriate in connection with being a community interest company. Please note that a CIC cannot rely on the default articles under section 20 of the Companies Act 2006. The link will take model articles for different types of CICs and model articles with explanatory notes.

•

Form IN01. Requires details of the company’s proposed name; whether limited by shares or guarantee public or private; the first directors (and secretary if applicable), the intended situation of registered office; a statement of compliance etc.

•

A form CIC36. Requires the company’s community interest statement. The purpose of the community interest statement is to confirm that the company will provide benefit to the community. It does this by describing its intended activities who they will help and how. The link will take you to a copy of the form and an example of a completed form.

Are these documents available for public consumption. Appreciate they may be a bit of heavy reading.

With the exception of the CIC36 the rest of the documents are just fairly standard stuff we will see if we can get an appropriate format of them for the website. A number of these articles will start to change as a constitution arises out of what would be the first members meeting.

The CIC36 is the most relevant one, it is basically a note of aims and objectves of the CIC (10000hours) they are not St Mirren specific, just because you define these sort of statements more generally than that. It is this statement that has to be approved by the regulator who then decides if you are allowed to be a CIC.

We will get these online for you asap.

There is one techncal problem which you may have come across and we are trubg to get sorted, which is a lot of this should be on the CIC regulators website, however their indexing system is alphabetical and does not deal with company names that are numbers e.g 10000hours.

Will post agian when details are online.

10000hours

[Big Fras]

We appreciate your comments and you have made a resonable point with regards to the 300 number.

This number is based on the business plan that produces the revenue to fund the purchase. It was a number that the funders are happy with.

It has always been the case that the more numbers we get the better and to now be close to double the "pledges" with the infomation still largely being diseminated on line is being viewed as a success by those in the background.

However we agree with you, with a fair wind we think we could make it to 4 figures and as outlined in the document we would love for the member board to one day decide to reduec the cost of the membership because it has become so popular...........but at the end of the day we had to start somewhere and we chose, rightly or wrongly 300.

An number of you hard copy suggestions are in hand for the St Johnston game and the databases you refer to have already been mailed.

If you are considering becoming a member youself and feel you have skills that you could bring to the party we would love to hear from you, if you are willing to help the process and inject your skills and energy.

10000hours CIC

Thank you for the reply. This is what the Q&A is for, and it was nice to hear an informed voice giving a calm logical explanation with no sweary words

Reading the above, I'll be signing up. (NB: The "incentives" idea was just to try and entice any "floating voters", as personal experience has taught me that no matter how much good intentions people have , the "what's in it for me ?" mentality does kick in once you get the first wave of people signed up.

A membership of 1000+ would be really quite something, so let's aim high.

Thanks for taking the time.

[Guest somner9]

Other than the fact that we have not so far issued lots of paper based information to reach those who do not use computers, we totally reject the premise of your question that somehow we have not "engaged with the community"

It is only possible to do so much at the one time, if you disagree with the order in which we have enaged with the supporter base of SMFC and the wider population of Renfrewshire then we have no problem with that, it is just the order we decided upon

There are 2500 season ticket holders, 900 shoreholder and 4500+ people on the club database.

Assume that we send details to 4500 people using second class post with a letter that includes some of the documents currently avaliable for download plus a cover letter and a return SAO plus the cost of the envelope itself, then i think you can see that is will cost at least a couple of thousand pounds to do this, so it made much more sense to first check using online media that the base level of support was there first before spending money on the hard copy media send.

Again, you may have chosen a different way of doing it, but we are certainly not trying to "dismiss" people who are a vital part of the club as it stands just now.

I think the 1200 people how signed up for information and the 550+ who have now pledged would find it odd that you do not consider them to be part of the ""Real St Mirren Community"

and that the approx 400 people who have either attended one of the Public, SMISA or travel club meetings where the 10000hours team have done a presentation would not consider themselves to be "out of the loop" as well as the dozens that have made appointments to speak to one of the 10000hours team face to face, you are more than welcome to make an [email protected] if you like.

10000hours CIC

thank you for your response, but please allow me to correct the false statements you have made regarding who i think the REAL St mirren community are.

It isn't unknown corporate members (obviously that would exclude the board as they are known by all as having run a good football club, without the need to attack the fan base or people asking questions. perhaps thats something you may grasp in time)

and it isn't a selection of community groups you have chosen to invite, where one has already secured (from your info) a six figure contract to develop a bar that they will in some way manage/control/run

forget the smokescreens and desperation in your response, just explain why you came to the fans of SMFC last! in April informing them it needed to be tied down by May so a transfer of power could take place?

and to identify that their are 4500 potential intrested parties in your individual membership scheme but still failing to get them on board first (who else will talk up and spread the vision better than those involved) is completely mystifying and poor form. shame on you

back to you first point, glad you accept you have done little to engage with groups i.e. SHAREHOLDERS yes unbelievably shareholders and STH are last in line in the Community. because of stamp prices???

p.s. liked the little bit of "Politics" there at the end of your post listing the parties you have spoken to LAST but trying to turn the numbers and emphasis round to suggest i was the one who ignored them for a year. pity its been rumbled though better luck next time

[steve_the_saint]

The family membership scheme you've spoke of....would this have one vote in total, one per member of family or pro rata, ie, if it costs 20quid per month, that'll be 2 votes per family membership?

[Stu]

Apologies if this question has been answered but when do 10000hours expect to hear from the funding groups if their application has been successful.

Also, is the £2million asking price being paid in one lump sum or in stages - because I thought only £1.2million of that was in grants/loans. Where is the other £800k coming from - the initial membership fees won't cover that.

[JM1]

Apologies if this question has been answered but when do 10000hours expect to hear from the funding groups if their application has been successful.

Also, is the £2million asking price being paid in one lump sum or in stages - because I thought only £1.2million of that was in grants/loans. Where is the other £800k coming from - the initial membership fees won't cover that.

£800k in grants. £1.2M in loans.

[Stu]

£800k in grants. £1.2M in loans.

I realise now that's been said numerous times. Oops