TsuMirren Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) I noticed whilst reading up on CIC's elsewhere that "65% of any profits made must be reinvested in the community." I'm sure Saint Mirren may end up not being the only part of the community, indeed the corporate and community member groups/companies can be argued as being part of the wider community...although not controlled by the CIC. The simple question is whether Saint Mirren will be the recipients of at least the 65% of any profits coming in via CIC activities? I'd imagine offering CIC members special events around the club (day in a life, guaranteed trial, train with the team or whatever) as being those sort of activities along with the obvious use of the facilities and fees gained. Slight edit... I'm also assuming these profits are over and above the current operations of the club itself. Edited April 19, 2011 by TsuMirren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 If the application to the Scottish Investment Fund (or whatever the Daily Mail article claimed it was) is unsuccessful, the whole thing falls apart? If it is successful, how will the loan be repaid? The document claims the increased income from the club's assets will help pay for the loan and lead to an increased footballing budget - must be a fairly big increase! I believe there are as many as a dozen different funding routes. Some of which can only kick in after the deal is completed because of legal restrictions on how they spend their loot. TTH will be able to tell you if there are any deal breakers amongst those dozen (or if I am talking bollocks). What do the community organisations get for their £500 a year? I'm guessing they must be getting at least that much back or it wouldn't be worth their while, so where is that money coming from? Don't know but I didn't want to ignore part of your question. How many corporate people have signed up so far. Is the earlier post suggesting that these are merely the five selling board members, Tony's Taxis (or whatever it's called), JD Sports and other companies with whom people at the club already have some sort of personal involvement anywhere near the mark? Fairly easy to draw that conclusion from the document. I believe at least three of the corporate members who have committed currently have nothing to do with the club at any level at all. No idea about how many of the sellers are putting in as corporate members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Concerning the proposed matchday bar: 1- will there be tables and seating? 2- Will there be Sky/ESPN TV? (this I believe is a necessity to attract custom, before and after the game) 3- Who will staff the bar? 4- What are the proposed hours? Thanks. 1. We would expect so. 2. We would expect so. 3. Not sure how to answer this. We assume you dont mean the specifics of the actual people? So could you clarify what you are trying to get at? 4 We would hope to make the hours as long as possible subject to it being economically appropriate, and licencing rules 10000hours CIC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 1. We would expect so. 2. We would expect so. 3. Not sure how to answer this. We assume you dont mean the specifics of the actual people? So could you clarify what you are trying to get at? 4 We would hope to make the hours as long as possible subject to it being economically appropriate, and licencing rules 10000hours CIC The eleven o'clock shift's a bugger, intit? (this is a genuine question. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 The club shouldn't rely financially on the CIC at all. It should rely financially exactly as it does under SG and the current BOD - on gate money, TV money, sponsorship money, merchandising sales, money from cup runs, money from finishing as high up the SPL as possible. The interesting aspect is if the CIC plan takes off and generates a genuine culture of a 'St Mirren community'. If it gets off to a good start with good membership numbers, then it might be self-generating in interest. If companies outside looking in see it working for those in the CIC, they might fancy a slice of the action themselves. Same goes for individuals. Maybe a lot of fans will adopt a 'watch and wait' attitude, see how it goes. If the minimum 300 is reached easily, and perhaps surpassed, folk might say 'OK, if they're all in, I'm in too'. My hope (and I've said this to Richard Atkinson), is that the leaders of the CIC work hard to foster a genuine sense that everyone is in this together. Individual, community, corporate - mskes no difference to me. We're all members working on the same side. There is no place for cliques or factions IMHO. We listened and we agree, it is about us all being in it together. Community Interest Companies only Work - and continue to work - if the Community is interested. Well over a century of continual interest in St Mirren FC says to us that once done the community in ownership and control are less likely to lose interest than the alternative approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 The eleven o'clock shift's a bugger, intit? (this is a genuine question. ) yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Drew I kind of discovered the answer to my own question and yours a. Yes the CiC could in theory go into administration. See attached link re CiC. Plenty of stuff on The buzzwords that are being mentioned. The worry I have is that should the CiC collapse then the shares could be used by the administrator/liquidator to fund the creditors. http://www.cicregulator.gov.uk/guidanceindex.shtml b. Not sure. However the club and the CiC are separate companies and if the CiC failed then this should not have a direct effect on the club. Provided of course, that the club does not heavily rely on being financed by the CiC. Cheers Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLF Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 2 questions: Q: At the recent SMISA meeting RA stated if the CIC elected a bunch of Muppets he would run them out of town, this suggests to me a group have some control over the board of the CIC? I have no doubt an organisation such as this needs a safety net - it needs to ensure the people on the CIC board, and more importantly, the St Mirren Board, are competent, my question is who would make up this safety net/veto body and what would be the scope for the CIC at large to remove them and replace with someone else if they were not happy with their MO? Q: The current SMFC BoD do not take a salary from the club, as they are in a fortunate position as relatively wealthy individuals, this is not a concern for them. Whoever the CIC elects to the SMFC BoD will also have to work full time for the club - assuming they would not be offered a salary is there a danger this may preclude a large section of the support from standing for election, or would a modest salary be offered to ‘full time’ board members? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) 1. We would expect so. 2. We would expect so. 3. Not sure how to answer this. We assume you dont mean the specifics of the actual people? So could you clarify what you are trying to get at? 4 We would hope to make the hours as long as possible subject to it being economically appropriate, and licencing rules 10000hours CIC On question 3: No, I don't need specifics, just will they be paid employees of the CIC or the Club, or are you looking for volunteers to serve at the bar (perhaps in return for match entry, which could be a real goer for both sides of the deal - especially the unemployed or part-time bar-staff elsewhere). ON question 4: I assume that the bar will close at least 10 mins before kick-off and will be opened at the final whistle? ... and for those forumsters above who were not asking specific questions of 10000hours... I THOUGHT THIS WAS A Q&A thread where we ask questions, which are answered by 10000hours, not a discussion thread where those who think they know the answers (however well intentioned) give them? THERE IS A DISCUSSION THREAD ELSEWHERE! Edited April 20, 2011 by davidg Posts moved across Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 What if I sign up then decide I don't like the way things are being run.Can I walk away at anytime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Can I ask whoever sends out emails to those who have registered interest not to send them at 1.35am in the morning. All emails sent to me are forwarded to my phone which sits beside my bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Can I ask whoever sends out emails to those who have registered interest not to send them at 1.35am in the morning. All emails sent to me are forwarded to my phone which sits beside my bed. You know I never want to cause trouble and I would never be a clype, but... ...IT WAS DIV WOT DUN IT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 You know I never want to cause trouble and I would never be a clype, but... ...IT WAS DIV WOT DUN IT! bl""dy insomniacs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 bl""dy insomniacs He has weans. He'll blame them. That's all they're good for, intit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 To become a corporate member you will pay £10000 per annum, or equivalent. For this you will gain access to a bespoke affinity and networking opportunity via the club, including two Directors Box seats for all home games, and options on away game Directors Box seating. We require at least 12 corporate members. Is the CIC taking money and offering club tickets a conflict of interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Is the CIC taking money and offering club tickets a conflict of interest? fuxake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 2 questions: Q: The current SMFC BoD do not take a salary from the club, as they are in a fortunate position as relatively wealthy individuals, this is not a concern for them. Whoever the CIC elects to the SMFC BoD will also have to work full time for the club - assuming they would not be offered a salary is there a danger this may preclude a large section of the support from standing for election, or would a modest salary be offered to ‘full time’ board members? The Current board do not work full time, and although some are now recently retired it does not take up all their working day, although there is no doubt that the time and effort that is put in by all is significant, someone who is in a full time job will not be excluded form being on the board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 On question 3: No, I don't need specifics, just will they be paid employees of the CIC or the Club, or are you looking for volunteers to serve at the bar (perhaps in return for match entry, which could be a real goer for both sides of the deal - especially the unemployed or part-time bar-staff elsewhere). The buisness plan is costed conservativley, meaning that we have budgetted for paid staff. However if as you suggest (and we have considered it) we use some other method of staffing then it just improves the business plan further. ON question 4: I assume that the bar will close at least 10 mins before kick-off and will be opened at the final whistle? This is to be confirmed nearer the time and will be a separate negotiation with tyhe autorities concerned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 What if I sign up then decide I don't like the way things are being run.Can I walk away at anytime? The initial commitment will be for 1 year and then yes you could just walk away. However the whole point of Community control is that if there is something you do not like then you have the power to enact change by convicing others that you are correct and then standing for election and making a difference from the inside rather than shouting from the outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) Is the CIC taking money and offering club tickets a conflict of interest? Within the business plan part of the the 10K would be paid to the club for the provision of the servces that are in the package so that their is clarity, otherwise you would be correct and their could be a conflict of interest. In fact the club would going forward earn more money than it does now from these seating areas, thus 10000hours itself would also contribute to the club in cash terms 10000hours CIC Edited April 21, 2011 by 10000hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 You know I never want to cause trouble and I would never be a clype, but... ...IT WAS DIV WOT DUN IT! Actually the TTH mailers don't get sent by me so in this case I am innocent. I can say though that they don't get auto-scheduled to go out at that time in the morning, that is the time that people within the team (and I don't mean me) are actually grafting away on the project trying to bring it all together to make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000hours Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Actually the TTH mailers don't get sent by me so in this case I am innocent. I can say though that they don't get auto-scheduled to go out at that time in the morning, that is the time that people within the team (and I don't mean me) are actually grafting away on the project trying to bring it all together to make it happen. Guilty as charged! 10000hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Guilty as charged! 10000hours I see your game now. You're trying to put in 10000 hours work on this in the hope you'll attain expert status. Any chance of having a word with our defence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) Within the business plan part of the the 10K would be paid to the club for the provision of the servces that are in the package so that their is clarity, otherwise you would be correct and their could be a conflict of interest. Similarly does this mean that membership of the CIC cannot confer discounts to Individual Members regarding club facilities & goods, ie car park, programs, hospitality etc which has been proposed in the big thread? Edited April 21, 2011 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Actually the TTH mailers don't get sent by me so in this case I am innocent. I can say though that they don't get auto-scheduled to go out at that time in the morning, that is the time that people within the team (and I don't mean me) are actually grafting away on the project trying to bring it all together to make it happen. Humblest apologies... As you'd stuck notification of the pledging online into the forum at a similar 'wee sma hours' time, I made a baseless assumption. I suspect you were busily and worthily employed elsewhere on b+w army, adding a link for someone else's website...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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