10000 Hours Q&A Thread

[pozbaird]

You should see the amount of badges they have in the QOS club shop. Any excuse for one - look: http://www.qosfcstore.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8&zenid=sbjeldr08r070igf04946kjkp4

They even had one when they made the semis of the Challenge Cup - suppose it's the equivalent of c*ltic releasing a DVD every 10 minutes. Can't wait for the director's commentary on coverage of the Neil Lennon candlelit vigil.

Perhaps I'll reconsider doing a badge design then... mind you, we might need a few designs. Could be a square go in the main stand between the club's corporate hospitality young team in one suite, and the mad mental CIC tong boozing in that other bar. Could be trouble. I foresee Alex Salmond and Strathclyde Police involvement already.

Edited April 22, 2011 by pozbaird

[St. Sid]

Perhaps I'll reconsider doing a badge design then... mind you, we might need a few designs. Could be a square go in the main stand between the club's corporate hospitality young team in one suite, and the mad mental CIC tong boozing in that other bar. Could be trouble. I foresee Alex Salmond and Strathclyde Police involvement already.

World Champion Darts Player Look-likey fan used to make a mean St Mirren badge with that kiddies Badge It thing. I've still got a few of those badges.

[ds10]

Question:

The CIC intends to use the under-utilised assets of the club to generate extra revenue. Why can't the club do this by itself?

Then more of the money would go directly into the club rather than to pay the debts of the CIC.

Would the CIC be better placed to exploit the under-utilised assets than the club itself?

[ds10]

Question:

By recruiting corporate members (and to a certain extent community members) are the not competing with the club for the same pot of money?

In other words, would the businesses that sign up for the CIC not have used the money to directly sponsor the club anyway?

Edited April 22, 2011 by ds10

[repairman]

Do the CIC have any other plans for the stadium other than the bar? for example, filling in the corners of the stadium with posters such as Easter road?, stands being named or even the stadium naming rights?

thanks in advance

[David_Morrison]

I know everyone else on here seems to run a business but I don't and I've been wondering what this means; "Interest rates of 0% to 8% repayable over periods 3 to 10 years across these debts."

I've read it a few times and was thinking about what it means. On the slide there were eight numbers making up the 2,000,000. So it's safe to presume we're taking out around six different loans? Are these all from different lenders or are they all from the same "big company" and we're eligible for lots of different loans rather than getting a one off 1.2 million loan?

Is each individual loan then associated with its own interest rate and are these flexible depending on how successful we are with the social return from their investment? So if we ticked different criteria for each individual loans and the excel in what they are meant to do is it possible all values of interest will be 0% or are they all fixed at different rates just depending on who we're getting them from?

And also, "There are some Scottish football clubs which ARE community interest companies, St. Mirren are NOT going to become one."

Which clubs are CIC's already? I was under the impression that we were unique too

[pozbaird]

I know everyone else on here seems to run a business but I don't and I've been wondering what this means; "Interest rates of 0% to 8% repayable over periods 3 to 10 years across these debts."

I've read it a few times and was thinking about what it means. On the slide there were eight numbers making up the 2,000,000. So it's safe to presume we're taking out around six different loans? Are these all from different lenders or are they all from the same "big company" and we're eligible for lots of different loans rather than getting a one off 1.2 million loan?

Is each individual loan then associated with its own interest rate and are these flexible depending on how successful we are with the social return from their investment? So if we ticked different criteria for each individual loans and the excel in what they are meant to do is it possible all values of interest will be 0% or are they all fixed at different rates just depending on who we're getting them from?

And also, "There are some Scottish football clubs which ARE community interest companies, St. Mirren are NOT going to become one."

Which clubs are CIC's already? I was under the impression that we were unique too

r*ngers. Cnuts In Crisis.

[Stu]

I know everyone else on here seems to run a business but I don't and I've been wondering what this means; "Interest rates of 0% to 8% repayable over periods 3 to 10 years across these debts."

I've read it a few times and was thinking about what it means. On the slide there were eight numbers making up the 2,000,000. So it's safe to presume we're taking out around six different loans? Are these all from different lenders or are they all from the same "big company" and we're eligible for lots of different loans rather than getting a one off 1.2 million loan?

Is each individual loan then associated with its own interest rate and are these flexible depending on how successful we are with the social return from their investment? So if we ticked different criteria for each individual loans and the excel in what they are meant to do is it possible all values of interest will be 0% or are they all fixed at different rates just depending on who we're getting them from?

And also, "There are some Scottish football clubs which ARE community interest companies, St. Mirren are NOT going to become one."

Which clubs are CIC's already? I was under the impression that we were unique too

According to the Daily Mail article from the other week (so possibly not reliable), there are two applications in to the Scottish Investment Fund - one for £1million (half grant, half loan) and one for a £300,000 loan as the maximum they give out in one go is £1million. The SIF website says it will typically be at 8 per cent.

If we get the total £800k loan from then then I guess the other £400k is coming from elsewhere.

[David_Morrison]

r*ngers. Cnuts In Crisis.

I'll green dot you for that :

Seems that both Stenhousemuir and Clyde (271 members) are both CICs!

http://www.stenhousemuirfc.com/cic/ is an interesting read for some of the facts.

According to the Daily Mail article from the other week (so possibly not reliable), there are two applications in to the Scottish Investment Fund - one for £1million (half grant, half loan) and one for a £300,000 loan as the maximum they give out in one go is £1million. The SIF website says it will typically be at 8 per cent.

If we get the total £800k loan from then then I guess the other £400k is coming from elsewhere.

Cheers Stu! So the extra £400,000 loan and £300,000 grant will come in five different pieces from smaller funds, and the interest rates on these loans can also range from 0 to 8%.

A bit of an annoyance to find out the highest interest rate is on the largest loans but ach well

Edited April 22, 2011 by David_Morrison

[TsuMirren]

Seems that both Stenhousemuir and Clyde (271 members) are both CICs!

http://www.stenhousemuirfc.com/cic/ is an interesting read for some of the facts.

The difference cousin of mine is that Stenny and Clyde are CIC's in entirety, Saint Mirren will merely be owned by a CIC.

[David_Morrison]

The difference cousin of mine is that Stenny and Clyde are CIC's in entirety, Saint Mirren will merely be owned by a CIC.

Kenny?

I know that, I'd just thought we were the first team to be involved completely.

Anyone know how well it's working for them? Second bottom in the second and third divisions is hardly inspiring but I assume the takeovers weren't that long ago. Suppose it'd be almost poetic is the perennial second worst team in the SPL got involved as well

Edited April 22, 2011 by David_Morrison

[slapsalmon]

Another things thats been nagging at me a bit from last night is this, RA said he wanted to do the cic thing while he was still active and could see the results rather than leaving a trust when he was 60 to do something philanthropic. He then said that after St Mirren had settled down and he had done his part, that 10000hours would do similar things with other groups.

From where im looking at it, this then means that 10000hours would have members in it from further afield than just St Mirren. Not a problem in itself, but is there not then a possibility that for talking sake if St Mirren have 300 members and some other group has double that the other group could then use voting power within 10000hours to gain control of the board of the football club?

Is 10000hours purely for the purpose of the aquisition of St Mirren or will it help other groups potentially creating the scenario above?

Also, I wasn't impressed with RA saying he didnt know if the outgoing board listened to him because they believed it or because he "was the only show in town"

[Big Fras]

Another things thats been nagging at me a bit from last night is this, RA said he wanted to do the cic thing while he was still active and could see the results rather than leaving a trust when he was 60 to do something philanthropic. He then said that after St Mirren had settled down and he had done his part, that 10000hours would do similar things with other groups.

From where im looking at it, this then means that 10000hours would have members in it from further afield than just St Mirren. Not a problem in itself, but is there not then a possibility that for talking sake if St Mirren have 300 members and some other group has double that the other group could then use voting power within 10000hours to gain control of the board of the football club?

Is 10000hours purely for the purpose of the aquisition of St Mirren or will it help other groups potentially creating the scenario above?

Also, I wasn't impressed with RA saying he didnt know if the outgoing board listened to him because they believed it or because he "was the only show in town"

I think that was actually quite honest of RA. However, with SG attending the next meeting I'm sure he'll set the record straight.

[bonzoboys]

9 Corporate Members committed - in CIC docuent SG says all 5 consortium mebers are taking a Corporate Membership. If they included in 9 , that means only 4 truly new members committed so far?

[David_Morrison]

9 Corporate Members committed - in CIC docuent SG says all 5 consortium mebers are taking a Corporate Membership. If they included in 9 , that means only 4 truly new members committed so far?

You've also got JD (who are making the strips) and Fitzpatrick's taxi company (I think) so it may be as little as two who we're not sure about.

[jimdickloyal]

Another things thats been nagging at me a bit from last night is this, RA said he wanted to do the cic thing while he was still active and could see the results rather than leaving a trust when he was 60 to do something philanthropic. He then said that after St Mirren had settled down and he had done his part, that 10000hours would do similar things with other groups.

From where im looking at it, this then means that 10000hours would have members in it from further afield than just St Mirren. Not a problem in itself, but is there not then a possibility that for talking sake if St Mirren have 300 members and some other group has double that the other group could then use voting power within 10000hours to gain control of the board of the football club?

Is 10000hours purely for the purpose of the aquisition of St Mirren or will it help other groups potentially creating the scenario above?

Also, I wasn't impressed with RA saying he didnt know if the outgoing board listened to him because they believed it or because he "was the only show in town"

Why? It sounded like an honest statement to me.

[St. Sid]

Why? It sounded like an honest statement to me.

Half a story there too.....RA finished that dialogue with "you can find out next week" or something like that as SG will be there as the question was really one for the consortium and not him.

[steve_the_saint]

You've also got JD (who are making the strips) and Fitzpatrick's taxi company (I think) so it may be as little as two who we're not sure about.

......and then you've got the Maxi group who will probably have one which takes it to one that we don't know about.

[slapsalmon]

Half a story there too.....RA finished that dialogue with "you can find out next week" or something like that as SG will be there as the question was really one for the consortium and not him.

Its not half a story at all. Wether SG will be there next week or not, I didn't think he should have said it.

It wasn't a question he was answering either, it was during his explanation of how he got involved which came after a show of hands when he asked if people wanted to know.

It may have been an honest statement, but he was trying to convince us that it was the way to go and that made it sound to me like he didn't know if the consortium bought it.

Edited April 23, 2011 by slapsalmon

[BLF]

Who (specifically) will make up the exec-board and will the main CIC board/members have any ability to remove/replace this board if they do not like the way it is operating?

[slapsalmon]

Who (specifically) will make up the exec-board and will the main CIC board/members have any ability to remove/replace this board if they do not like the way it is operating?

RA gave the names of Himself, the guy from the kibble, the guy stuart(? that went onto the board at the same time as him) and "a few others"

Can't remember anything about the ability to remove them although it may have been said.

[bonzoboys]

I listened with interest on Thursday and it sounds like a good basis for fans and the wider community to have control of a club. As I have read more, one aspect has come to mind - everybody assumes that the members who sign up are interested in SMFC. Suppose the community side take off and the number of members with a wider general interest grows. Suppose all the members of Kelburn Hockey or the Ladies Football take out memberships? Then there is the possibility of members with no interst of SMFC voting for a CIC board, which in effect controls SMFC. I am struggling to get my head round that aspect.

in the past you bought shares in the Club, tying you in to the Club, but here you may be simply taking out a membership in a community programme with nothing to tie you to the Club.

We all assume that the individual members and corporate members are their for their love of SMFC, what if the model changes? Richard spoke the other night about this being a bit of a social experiment. That is all well and good if we want to create a genuine community group, but as far as I'm concerned the funding and driving force is to take over the running of a Premier League Team.

Am I missing something, it is to take over the running of the SMFC that we are all think of as the first priority, with a wider community benfit being a secondary benefit, this is not a community project that just happens to have a footblall team tagged on.

I am also very concerned about the knowledge and professional ability within an enthusiastic bunch of amateurs of running a full time professional league team. Just supose Jimmy from West bank (where I sit) and his bunch of mates decide on having one as a board member. Perhaps a campaign on this very web site to get somebody appointed. All very well in terms of a democracy, they pay their money they get their votes is all well and good but do we realy want that as the motivation for being a board member? We may make comments about the existing BOD but I am sure none of us have ever questioned their professionalism in doing what is right for the club. Day to day, we may disagree with individual actions but their stewardship over the past 10 years cannot be doubted. How do we make sure we get board to take the team forward?

Bit like "One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest " where the loonies really take over the asylum.

Does the membership come with any better defined right. Saying we will get a vote for the board is all very well but what rights will a member have long term? We think we are supporters of SMFC but what happens as the make up of the membership changes. Will the SMFC fan who put his money in in day one be treated any differently to a "social" member who may join 2 - 3 years down the line as the community side grows?

[Stuart Dickson]

BonzoBoys, why would you think that members of Kelburn Hockey club would want to take out individual memberships? I can't see the rational behind that at all. I would imagine it would be enough of a struggle to get their committee to see benefit in parting with £500 of club funds never mind getting 200 odd members to pay £120 per annum into a fund that would get them match day access to a members bar for a football match they wouldn't be interested in.

I think you are possibly right in that the priority may become servicing the membership first and the football club second but that is not necessarily a bad thing.

To give you an example - a few years ago I sat at a meeting with Tommy Boyle - Athletics Coach and very highly quoted now within the SFA regarding his Positive Coaching model that he's imported from the US. Tommy Boyle in the 80's built a Lanarkshire Athletics Club from a very small base to one of the biggest in the country. It got so big he started satalite clubs all around Lanarkshire, right out to West Lothian. He explained to me that it was a numbers game. You could focus on six good athletes and give them lots of coaching but if they became successful who was going to fund their further development? What was going to happen if each athletic decided to give up at the age of 14 or 15 as many do? What would happen if they each got injured? All your eggs were in one basket.

If you had hundreds of athletes, most of whom would never make it, and you got them to pay their fees every week you'd have a fund built up that could be tapped to fund the expense of warm weather training in the winter for elite athletes. You had a captive audience for sponsors - they eventually adopted the name of their biggest sponsor Lucozade. You had a pool of athletes that you could work with. And you'd be providing the social benefits of getting kids off the streets, keeping them fit, giving them a focus and some positive role models - and that in turn would bring more grants, more sponsorship and more funding.

Now this is similar. Use the CIC to be active in the community, put positive role models out there, give the kids a focus, get them fit, provide better access to good quality facilities, and be supportive of their goals and their aims. In return you get more revenue, more varied expertese, and your brand grows across the country which makes you more attractive to sponsors, grants and funding. It might even provide you with a new generation of support.

The model of the last 20 years in Scottish football of investing in new players in the hope of attacting more fans into the ground has proven to be road to ruin for clubs like Dundee, Motherwell and r*ngers. Successful clubs of the future are going to have to look at how they can make their investments more sustainable.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Stuart Dickson

[steve_the_saint]

RA gave the names of Himself, the guy from the kibble, the guy stuart(? that went onto the board at the same time as him) and "a few others"

Can't remember anything about the ability to remove them although it may have been said.

I think he said the exec. Board probably won't change but I'm sure if we had a cic member with as much experience as the guys mentioned then he would be allowed on. It's more about the funders having someone on the scene that they can trust. They don't want to be giving their money to any tom Dick and harry who can do what they like with it.

[ck1]

Can I ask a question ......If the 464 members elect a member on to the board and decide they would like to ask for a change of something within the club, and the executive board don’t like the idea can they veto any idea put forward that they feel doesn’t suit them or the club.