pearcey Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I'm in a similar scenario. It's never worth my while to buy a season ticket as my weekends off don't always fall on home games so I'd definitely credit any smart card with games, as I stated earlier in the thread it's also an opportunity to facilitate for the gifting of credits/games as well. I'm in a similar position myself, where I now work in Aberdeen and is not feasable to buty a season ticket. The smart card would certainly help in not waiting in queues and being able to decide on attending a game if I am back home that weekend. Another scenario where i think this would also help, is one that I had been in previously. Many students (and others) tend to have to work shifts at weekends so having a system in place that would enable us to pre-empt this. Also a seat (near a friend) can be guaranteed rather than gambling on the pot luck allocation at the ticket office on matchday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 It would either be seat specific, or all non-standard ST purchases could be non-specific as Poz has suggested. As I've mentioned earlier, I don't see a big issue with selecting a seat but sitting in another unreserved seat when you arrive on the day. The club are aware that plenty of people do this, and don't have a problem with the practice. There is an assumption that people will give up the seat if someone who has purchased it rolls up looking to sit there. I'm assuming there hasn't been an issue in the past with this or the club wouldn't have this relaxed stance. I do appreciate that there would be logistics to work though, but if enough people feel that the concept is worth progressing, I'd be confident that the club could find a way round any practical issues. Not trying to make a big deal of it Drew, just trying (and failing) to see the benefit of keeping window-sold tickets stand and seat specific if we introduce non stand and seat specific 'smartcard lites'. If there is a benefit, and I'm missing the obvious - wouldn't be the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPaul Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Remember the good old days of pay at the gate? Such a straightforward, simple time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted September 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Not trying to make a big deal of it Drew, just trying (and failing) to see the benefit of keeping window-sold tickets stand and seat specific if we introduce non stand and seat specific 'smartcard lites'. If there is a benefit, and I'm missing the obvious - wouldn't be the first time. I agree with what you're saying. I just wonder if there is a H&S issue or some other barrier to this option. i can't see how there would be, but I wouldn't like to think that, if there is some form of impediment, it could kybosh the broader initiative as outlined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strbumelmac Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Good idea. However, the club need to get the finger out with their website and being able to buy tickets online as I've had problems trying to buy tickets and it will not let you complete the purchase. I've emailed the club, spoke to the ticket office and still the problem persists so if they can't be arsed fixing the IT issues then how can they expect people to turn up in crap weather and stand in a queue to buy a ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) I agree with what you're saying. I just wonder if there is a H&S issue or some other barrier to this option. i can't see how there would be, but I wouldn't like to think that, if there is some form of impediment, it could kybosh the broader initiative as outlined. That's what I was alluding to in an earlier post. If you're asking me as a fan and an ST holder if I have any problem with ANY other method of admission to our games being non stand or seat specific... then I don't have a problem with that at all. In fact, if we had such a system I'd maybe ask you and your mate to swap with me and Michael once or twice, with you using our seats, and the two of us trying the main stand for a game. I mentioned earlier about the police and the club needing some method of ensuring that any or all of our four stands cannot be 'over-sold'. Again, with our attendances normally being 4,000 - 5,500 I personally don't see a problem under normal circumstances, but the police demands on crowd control these days are a different ball game. Edited September 25, 2012 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted September 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 That's what I was alluding to in an earlier post. If you're asking me as a fan and an ST holder if I have any problem with ANY other method of admission to our games being non stand or seat specific... then I don't have a problem with that at all. I mentioned earlier about the police and the club needing some method of ensuring that any or all of our four stands cannot be over-sold. Surely, in this day and age, that couldn't be too difficult. Could it...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suggestion Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 The club would be able to do this so easy as they can add games to your season ticket easily which are not included. ( Cup Games) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) Surely, in this day and age, that couldn't be too difficult. Could it...? You'd hope not. We know the place holds 8,500 (or whatever it actually is), and entry is by some sort of ticket being shoved into the readers. Hypothetically, if we operated a non stand and seat specific system, we still couldn't sell more than the stadium holds, so that in itself isn't a concern. No matter where the tickets were for, we wouldn't sell more tickets than we have seats.... we aren't a dumbass American airline. The only issue might be (I say might!) be the fact that with it being non stand and seat specific, you could find people choosing to go to one of the three home stands that is full. Say a big game comes around sometime where Celtic or Killie, or Hearts in that cup game, gets a decent section of the West Bank. Say Morton won promotion to the SPL. Just saying, it theoretically could happen that one stand is actually full, and more people try to gain access to that particular stand. The police view on 'non specific' entry would interest me. Edited September 25, 2012 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunny Saint Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I haven't read through the whole thread but on the face of it Drew it sounds like a good idea. I'd certainly be encouraged to get a smart card. In fact, I'm surprised schemes like this aren't more widely used elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) Why stand specific? <snip. To prevent a Stand being oversold. However, if a block of tickets is added to a lite-smartcard they need not necessarily be date specific i.e. just log-on and select a game and stand on an as-needed basis from your pre-purchased block of tickets. . <snip> Another possibility could be to introduce a half season ticket at the start of the season. This would allow people to pick and choose the matches they want to/ are able to go to. The card would be charged with 10 matches/credits at the start of the season and matches can be bought with 1 credit throughout the season. I would go further, make it simpler and I believe attract more punters this way: At any time before or during a season, a punter can have as many tickets as they like added to their Smartcard-lite but to activate any (or up to all) of their tickets they just contact the ticket office (or go online) and let them know the dates of any munber of games they wish. At the same time, if they wish, they can ask for a specific stand and seat (or seats)per game or the same for all games being activated. Edited September 25, 2012 by Vambo57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 You can see why the whole "Season Ticket" thing caught on so well.... maybe they should concentrate selling more versions (half as is, quarter etc) of that???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 This basically equates to the membership scheme that already exists at many clubs in England. You get a small discount on each ticket as long as you book before the day of the game, although not as much as for a full season ticket. You get first dibs at tickets for in-demand games, and many clubs down here also make it the only way to buy away tickets, in essence so that they know who is going to the games but also because away allocations regularly sell out. No need for that in Scotland because there are pretty much always thousnads of empty seats anyway. At Millwall, you also get a couple of designated games a seaosn where you get in for 15 quid (usually unattractive midweek games) and a small discount in the club shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted September 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 This basically equates to the membership scheme that already exists at many clubs in England. You get a small discount on each ticket as long as you book before the day of the game, although not as much as for a full season ticket. You get first dibs at tickets for in-demand games, and many clubs down here also make it the only way to buy away tickets, in essence so that they know who is going to the games but also because away allocations regularly sell out. No need for that in Scotland because there are pretty much always thousnads of empty seats anyway. At Millwall, you also get a couple of designated games a seaosn where you get in for 15 quid (usually unattractive midweek games) and a small discount in the club shop. Aye, jen over on the OS forum advised that she has a membership card for Arsenal that operates along these lines. It is helpful to know that there are systems in operation already, so no reinventing of the wheel is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhiteman Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 totally agree with the principle i stopped getting a season ticket for a few years as it restricted where i could go, it was originally for the westbank then my mates sister bought him a half season ticket at xmas.....for the main stand (so he says anyway) i also prefer to sit in the main stand at the start and end of the season and get the benefit of sitting in the sun as well (well twice a season anyway) and then move to the westbank when the pissin rain and wind is firing into the main stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Why stand specific? One of the main reasons for looking at this is to offer flexibility. Oaksoft refers to this proposal not solving any 'problem'. This isn't the point. The proposal is to offer an additional facility. The existing ST system would very much remain in place. Absorbing the cost of a small discount is something for the club to consider. This would be no different from the current situation with STs. If it encouraged more people to attend regularly, then it might be worth it. Bear in mind that 10% on a standard ticket is only 2 quid. OK let me ask it another way. What would be the projected cost of implementing this and what sort of return would be expected? If it's cost free and avoids the problem Pozbaird mentioned about clashing with seat-specific seats then there's clearly not an issue. If however there's a cost then it needs to be solving a current problem in a way that its success can be monitored against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted September 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) OK let me ask it another way. What would be the projected cost of implementing this and what sort of return would be expected? If it's cost free and avoids the problem Pozbaird mentioned about clashing with seat-specific seats then there's clearly not an issue. If however there's a cost then it needs to be solving a current problem in a way that its success can be monitored against. A cost benefit analysis isn't straightfoward, as it would be based on an estimate of how many additional supporters turned up per match as a result of the introduction of this facility. Not easy to quantify, I'd suggest. It could potentially prove to be cost neutral at worst if enough waverers opt to turn up at a sufficient number of additional matches (for example). For me, this is all about offering an additional facility that is flexible, and is likely to prove attractive to supporters. I think it would be of benefit to the club, too, but that isn't an analysis I'm qualified to make. Clubs take something of an informed gamble when selling ST at a discount - ie - they reckon enough people will opt to sign up to offset the potential loss that might occur as a result of the discount. This is basic enough economics, and something similar would apply with any new ticketing system, but the club would have to make the call. Sometimes, it is worth taking a small hit in order to keep people on side. Again, it's not my place to make any call on that, and it is obviously something that Brian Caldwell and the BoD would consider in making any decision as to whether to implement the proposal in some shape or form. Edited September 25, 2012 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 A cost benefit analysis isn't straightfoward, as it would be based on an estimate of how many additional supporters turned up per match as a result of the introduction of this facility. Not easy to quantify, I'd suggest. It could potentially prove to be cost neutral at worst if enough waverers opt to turn up at a sufficient number of additional matches (for example). For me, this is all about offering an additional facility that is flexible, and is likely to prove attractive to supporters. I think it would be of benefit to the club, too, but that isn't an analysis I'm qualified to make. Clubs take something of an informed gamble when selling ST at a discount - ie - they reckon enough people will opt to sign up to offset the potential loss that might occur as a result of the discount. This is basic enough economics, and something similar would apply with any new ticketing system, but the club would have to make the call. Sometimes, it is worth taking a small hit in order to keep people on side. Again, it's not my place to make any call on that, and it is obviously something that Brian Caldwell and the BoD would consider in making any decision as to whether to implement the proposal in some shape or form. That's a fair point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) A cost benefit analysis isn't straightfoward, as it would be based on an estimate of how many additional supporters turned up per match as a result of the introduction of this facility. Not easy to quantify, I'd suggest. It could potentially prove to be cost neutral at worst if enough waverers opt to turn up at a sufficient number of additional matches (for example). For me, this is all about offering an additional facility that is flexible, and is likely to prove attractive to supporters. I think it would be of benefit to the club, too, but that isn't an analysis I'm qualified to make. Clubs take something of an informed gamble when selling ST at a discount - ie - they reckon enough people will opt to sign up to offset the potential loss that might occur as a result of the discount. This is basic enough economics, and something similar would apply with any new ticketing system, but the club would have to make the call. Sometimes, it is worth taking a small hit in order to keep people on side. Again, it's not my place to make any call on that, and it is obviously something that Brian Caldwell and the BoD would consider in making any decision as to whether to implement the proposal in some shape or form. Hmm, Drew, respectfully....I honestly don't think you are going to see an increase in numbers of St Mirren fans going to matches because of this scheme. You see comments on here from those likely to use the pre purchasing facility and many of them are telling you that they don't buy season tickets because they work shifts etc. If they are pre-loading matches for the games when they aren't on shift then all they are doing is paying in advance for matches that they would have attended anyway. Where I do see a benefit is in cost reduction for St Mirren (decreased printing costs on tickets; possibility of staff reduction etc), better statistics and data on where and when their fans attend matches, and the possibility of advanced payments which would help to smooth cash flow issues. The only increase in numbers attending the matches that I can envisage would be where the scheme is offered out to fans of other clubs on the basis that at the start of the season they can pay for a package of two fixtures featuring their team at Greenhill Road in return for a discount. Then you may get Aberdeen, Hibs or Hearts fans paying up front when they are optimistic about the season ahead, and being tied into the second fixture despite the fact their dreams have been crushed and their team is struggling, Of course the stupid SPL structure with the pointless split doesn't lend itself well to this kind of scheme but that's for another thread. Edited September 26, 2012 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garf Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Drew I can't think of a downside. No postage costs beyond the first smart card, reduced printing costs in terms of tickets, possibly a reduction in the need for match day staff working in the ticket office, and - if the scheme was extended to opposition supporters as well - no need to pay the Old Firm a percentage of the ticket price for handling ticket sales to their own fans. There would also be an opportunity to issue local charities or community groups with a number of cards that could be charged up for various low attendance fixtures where they could be passed to the various age groups within their club for each of the fixtures. The club also gets a database containing names and addresses of all their customers and they'll be better statistics available on who attends matches, what age group they are in, and what matches the more casual user prefers to attend. It sounds like a good idea to me That's a brilliant idea. I used to coach kids football and that would have been perfect. There were only about 12 kids in my team, as there are in most teams in the lower age groups. This would mean that at the start of the season we could have contacted the club telling them we were interested in bringing the kids to watch, they send us a smartcard for each kid and one for each coach. A couple of weeks before a game like, say ICT or Ross County at home, the club email us saying that the cards have been charged with tickets for the match and all we have to do is turn up with the kids on the Saturday. Much simpler than the old free tickets from McDonalds scheme, and a lot easier to gauge how many kids will be coming to the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Hmm, Drew, respectfully....I honestly don't think you are going to see an increase in numbers of St Mirren fans going to matches because of this scheme. You see comments on here from those likely to use the pre purchasing facility and many of them are telling you that they don't buy season tickets because they work shifts etc. If they are pre-loading matches for the games when they aren't on shift then all they are doing is paying in advance for matches that they would have attended anyway. Where I do see a benefit is in cost reduction for St Mirren (decreased printing costs on tickets; possibility of staff reduction etc), better statistics and data on where and when their fans attend matches, and the possibility of advanced payments which would help to smooth cash flow issues. The only increase in numbers attending the matches that I can envisage would be where the scheme is offered out to fans of other clubs on the basis that at the start of the season they can pay for a package of two fixtures featuring their team at Greenhill Road in return for a discount. Then you may get Aberdeen, Hibs or Hearts fans paying up front when they are optimistic about the season ahead, and being tied into the second fixture despite the fact their dreams have been crushed and their team is struggling, Of course the stupid SPL structure with the pointless split doesn't lend itself well to this kind of scheme but that's for another thread. I would agree to an extent that there is unlikely to be any significant impact on attendances, Stuart, but I think it might encourage people to commit to attending more games. Some people swither about going to games, but if they've already purchased a match or a number of matches, factors such as queuing in shit weather won't be such a turn-off. Similarly, a dip in form, or the prospect of doing something else on match day can easily influence the decision to attend for the less diehard supporter. I wouldn't suggest the numbers would be dramatic, and this is why I've tried to emphasise the other benefits of the proposed system such as convenience and flexibility. I don't think it need be prohibitive in cost terms, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyW Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I'm a Spurs Bronze Card holder which is pretty much the same. Main difference is that the incentive is the option to book a week before standard members. When games don't come close to selling out a bulk discount sounds more logical. Great idea all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveStreetLover Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I think people are looking too much into this being similar to a season ticket. I think of it as more of a way to replace the paper ticket option with having no real impact on season tickets. Because I work in glasgow and generally dont have the time to go down to the ticket office during the week or weekend until match time, i find it a nuisance waiting in the pissing rain in a mile long queue trying to grab a ticket. If I had the option to just load it on to a smart card from home then it would definately suit me. Its a great idea to be honest. I think people need to ignore the "no fixed seat no fixed stand" part of it though. Its no different than strolling up to the ticket office and having a choice as normal. its just far more convenient. A confirmation email with the seat number to be printed or even in a text message would be suitable. The only way I can see this having any impact to season ticket sales is bulk discounts, but lets face it, the discount is not going to be anywhere near what you get as a season ticket holder. But even if we don't use the smart card option, we should at least offer incentives for bulk buying in advance etc. e.g. buy a ticket for this home game and get a 10% of the next home game if bought at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin b Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 What this would mean is that currently if u buy tickets on line u have postal cost of tickets being sent out or u wait in a queue on a match day, this avoids both of them. Also if the weather on a Saturday is poor we lose a lot of the 'walk up' crowd where as if they have loaded the card on a Thursday or Friday the money is guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Drew I can't think of a downside. Where I do see a benefit is in cost reduction for St Mirren (decreased printing costs on tickets; possibility of staff reduction etc), No downside to removing someone's livelihood to save a couple of quid? Dear oh dear. Nobody could ever accuse you of being human could they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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