Is There Any Body Out There

[BaldyOzBud]

According to Wiki the estimates can vary wildly from 1 (the Earth, obviously) to hundreds of millions.

Every now and again Wiki gets it right.. in a ( probably not quite infinite, but exponentially expanding ) universe, all things are possible, and life has an imperative will to spring into existence and find a way to survive in the most precarious of places.

Vive la Vie

[oaksoft]

Space for me is fascinating probably because looking up to the sky at sea from different parts of the world you see different formations of stars. Down here in Brazil you get great views of the Milky Way.

One night in January in the southern atmosphere on a clear dark night the sky was pulsating with a dim light every few seconds a wonderful sight just like the northern lights is a amazing spectacle.

The Hubble telescope DVD is strongly recommended if you are interested in space. We are seeing further into space than we have ever done and learning more almost on a daily basis.

Here is an equation that's worth a read.

Let's get down to some mathematics. The equation, in its pure form, looks like this:

N = R* × fp × ne × fl × fi × fc × L

It looks horrible, but it's really easy to understand. Its purpose is to take some numbers we can estimate from our existing knowledge rather than totally guess, plug them all together and come up with the magic number "N" an estimate on the number of contactable civilizations.

We can start by taking the average rate of star formation (R*) in our Galaxy, the Milky Way. A strange factor to consider perhaps, but understanding how many stars form each year allows us to ultimately consider how many civilizations are born each year. Current theory suggests this number, in the Milky Way, is about 10 new stars per year.

The second item fр defines the fraction of those stars which have planets and, according to current scientific values, is something like 50 percent.

Of the remaining values, we can actually look closer to home and learn from our very own solar system. Taking ne and fΙ, which explain the number of planets that can support life and the fraction of those planets where life actually evolves, and applying to the Solar System, will suggest a couple of possible options.

Obviously, Earth can support life (as we know it) and perhaps in the past so has Mars, this gives us an answer of 2 for the first point but we should also perhaps consider Europa and Titan as they, too, may harbor conditions where life, however primitive or weird, may be able to evolve, giving us an answer of 4 instead. The fraction where life evolves is at least 1 but it's thought that if the conditions are right, then life will evolve to some degree, at some time, leaving f

We can then apply some decent and pretty reliable numbers to the final factors in Drake's equation. fⁱ is the fraction of those life bearing planets where intelligent life evolves. From our own Solar System we know of only one place where intelligent life has evolved (although sometimes I do wonder) leaving us with 25 percent.

According to the SETI organization, fⁱrefers to the "fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space" and comes in at a meager 1 percent.

Finally comes "L," the length of time that the civilization releases detectable signals into space, which, using humans as an example, this technological advancement can be estimated at 10,000 years.

So this is the exciting bit, plug those numbers all in to the equation and you come up with... (drum roll please) ...50!

Is that really it?

The number of contactable civilizations in our Galaxy, right now, that we might communicate with, is just 50... fifty? It's estimated that there is around 400 billion stars in our Galaxy and, according to my numbers (which, by their nature are educated guesses), there are just 50 alien civilizations that we could communicate with.

The truth is that scientists are guessing at this stuff.

In the void, conspiracy theorists and nutters pop up.

Scientists postulate and propose ideas - most of which can't be proven.

We try to prove things using experiments but that doesn't really constitute proof either because we designed the experiments and those have errors and approximations in them as well.

Sadly, crazy buggers take scientific proposals and start chucking them around as "fact" when they are nothing of the sort.

That's why I'm shaking my head about your comment:-

Scientists , physics are all crack pots everyone except you.

Small narrow minded Mr Oaksoft

The scientists are making suggestions only.

You need to understand this.

[faraway saint]

Space for me is fascinating probably because looking up to the sky at sea from different parts of the world you see different formations of stars. Down here in Brazil you get great views of the Milky Way.

One night in January in the southern atmosphere on a clear dark night the sky was pulsating with a dim light every few seconds a wonderful sight just like the northern lights is a amazing spectacle.

The Hubble telescope DVD is strongly recommended if you are interested in space. We are seeing further into space than we have ever done and learning more almost on a daily basis.

Here is an equation that's worth a read.

Let's get down to some mathematics. The equation, in its pure form, looks like this:

N = R* × fp × ne × fl × fi × fc × L

It looks horrible, but it's really easy to understand. Its purpose is to take some numbers we can estimate from our existing knowledge rather than totally guess, plug them all together and come up with the magic number "N" an estimate on the number of contactable civilizations.

We can start by taking the average rate of star formation (R*) in our Galaxy, the Milky Way. A strange factor to consider perhaps, but understanding how many stars form each year allows us to ultimately consider how many civilizations are born each year. Current theory suggests this number, in the Milky Way, is about 10 new stars per year.

The second item fр defines the fraction of those stars which have planets and, according to current scientific values, is something like 50 percent.

Of the remaining values, we can actually look closer to home and learn from our very own solar system. Taking ne and fΙ, which explain the number of planets that can support life and the fraction of those planets where life actually evolves, and applying to the Solar System, will suggest a couple of possible options.

Obviously, Earth can support life (as we know it) and perhaps in the past so has Mars, this gives us an answer of 2 for the first point but we should also perhaps consider Europa and Titan as they, too, may harbor conditions where life, however primitive or weird, may be able to evolve, giving us an answer of 4 instead. The fraction where life evolves is at least 1 but it's thought that if the conditions are right, then life will evolve to some degree, at some time, leaving f

We can then apply some decent and pretty reliable numbers to the final factors in Drake's equation. fⁱ is the fraction of those life bearing planets where intelligent life evolves. From our own Solar System we know of only one place where intelligent life has evolved (although sometimes I do wonder) leaving us with 25 percent.

According to the SETI organization, fⁱrefers to the "fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space" and comes in at a meager 1 percent.

Finally comes "L," the length of time that the civilization releases detectable signals into space, which, using humans as an example, this technological advancement can be estimated at 10,000 years.

So this is the exciting bit, plug those numbers all in to the equation and you come up with... (drum roll please) ...50!

Is that really it?

The number of contactable civilizations in our Galaxy, right now, that we might communicate with, is just 50... fifty? It's estimated that there is around 400 billion stars in our Galaxy and, according to my numbers (which, by their nature are educated guesses), there are just 50 alien civilizations that we could communicate with.

Great bit of copy/paste.

Just a guess.

[pozbaird]

The thing that gets me is infinity. That's a concept and a half to get your head around. if you think about the movie 'The Truman Show' and at the end in his boat he eventually hits the false sky painted on the dome that was his entire universe. Naturally, on the other side of the dome was another world. Hypothetically then, if you left earth on a spacecraft with the intention of just keeping going, you would go on, and on, and on... forever. If it turns out we are in our own version of 'The Truman Show' and your spacecraft eventually hits the 'skin of the dome'... what is on the other side of the dome?

If we accept infinity means just that, that's kinda' mind-blowing. To think 'space' with planets and stars, comets and galaxies and all sorts, just keeps going, and going, and....

I reckon there simply must be other civilisations out there, somewhere.

[BaldyOzBud]

The thing that gets me is infinity. That's a concept and a half to get your head around. if you think about the movie 'The Truman Show' and at the end in his boat he eventually hits the false sky painted on the dome that was his entire universe. Naturally, on the other side of the dome was another world. Hypothetically then, if you left earth on a spacecraft with the intention of just keeping going, you would go on, and on, and on... forever. If it turns out we are in our own version of 'The Truman Show' and your spacecraft eventually hits the 'skin of the dome'... what is on the other side of the dome?

If we accept infinity means just that, that's kinda' mind-blowing. To think 'space' with planets and stars, comets and galaxies and all sorts, just keeps going, and going, and....

I reckon there simply must be other civilisations out there, somewhere.

I think the whole infinity thing has been blown out the water, it's mathematically impossible for a start, and the premise that we are the only sentient life in an ever expanding universe is so preposterous that it beggars belief, and is ultimately going to be the downfall of all of the " Intelligent Design theories" that have lead to the ridiculous persecutions of the so called " Heretics "

[pozbaird]

I think the whole infinity thing has been blown out the water, it's mathematically impossible for a start, and the premise that we are the only sentient life in an ever expanding universe is so preposterous that it beggars belief, and is ultimately going to be the downfall of all of the " Intelligent Design theories" that have lead to the ridiculous persecutions of the so called " Heretics "

Well, if the idea of infinity has been blown out of the water, did the people doing the blowing tell us when it ends and what's on the other side of it? No-one knows Jack Shit - that's my take on it. Why worry?

[BaldyOzBud]

Well, if the idea of infinity has been blown out of the water, did the people doing the blowing tell us when it ends and what's on the other side of it? No-one knows Jack Shit - that's my take on it. Why worry?

From my point of view there is no point worrying about any of it. As far as telling us about the end of anything, the general consensus is about * billion years for oor wee planet before we are fried.

And as far as worrying about it, I completely agree with you, why indeed, or what indeed do any of us have to worry about?

feck all as far as I can see, except for maybe losing to the Morton next season, coz that would truly be shite.

[pozbaird]

From my point of view there is no point worrying about any of it. As far as telling us about the end of anything, the general consensus is about * billion years for oor wee planet before we are fried.

And as far as worrying about it, I completely agree with you, why indeed, or what indeed do any of us have to worry about?

feck all as far as I can see, except for maybe losing to the Morton next season, coz that would truly be shite.

Indeed. It's a big old sky out there, that's all I know. If it goes on forever, fine. If it is mathematically impossible to go on forever, fine....

Now, gie's a signing!

[BaldyOzBud]

Now you've got my hole string theory thing stumped

Indeed. It's a big old sky out there, that's all I know. If it goes on forever, fine. If it is mathematically impossible to go on forever, fine....

Now, gie's a signing!

I'd be happy with a signing, any signing, because in the grand old game of Fitbaw, nothing is impossible, except fer the kirk.. awww ffs there goes my conspiracy theory again lol.

We are the Saints, We are the Saints, We are the We are the We are the Saints.

[saintnextlifetime]

Now you've got my hole string theory thing stumped

I'd be happy with a signing, any signing, because in the grand old game of Fitbaw, nothing is impossible, except fer the kirk.. awww ffs there goes my conspiracy theory again lol.

We are the Saints, We are the Saints, We are the We are the We are the Saints.

Equally mind boggling , of the material , energy , space and time universe is , that it is Infinite and yet expanding . Expanding into , what ? And then there is the mathematically impossible angle , also mind boggling and even if it isnae expanding and isn't infinite then it is still vast beyond our comprehension , in that the nearest star to us , is 4 light years away !

Your last bit l think is just pure plagiarism . .????

[RickMcD]

Indeed. It's a big old sky out there, that's all I know. If it goes on forever, fine. If it is mathematically impossible to go on forever, fine....

Now, gie's a signing!

I don't think it goes on forever cos remember Buzz Lightyear could go to infinity and beyond. And he was one smart dude. Some of this is getting too mathematical for me. I'm still not completely sure how planes can fly. I think it's something to do with lift and cross-dressing.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Equally mind boggling , of the material , energy , space and time universe is , that it is Infinite and yet expanding . Expanding into , what ? And then there is the mathematically impossible angle , also mind boggling and even if it isnae expanding and isn't infinite then it is still vast beyond our comprehension , in that the nearest star to us , is 4 light years away !

Your last bit l think is just pure plagiarism . .

Which makes it so interesting Neil, its mind bending has been since man has been on this planet everything from the Incas to Egyptians even Indian religions east and west have had a fascination with space

[salmonbuddie]

Space for me is fascinating probably because looking up to the sky at sea from different parts of the world you see different formations of stars. Down here in Brazil you get great views of the Milky Way.

One night in January in the southern atmosphere on a clear dark night the sky was pulsating with a dim light every few seconds a wonderful sight just like the northern lights is a amazing spectacle.

The Hubble telescope DVD is strongly recommended if you are interested in space. We are seeing further into space than we have ever done and learning more almost on a daily basis.

Here is an equation that's worth a read.

Let's get down to some mathematics. The equation, in its pure form, looks like this:

N = R* × fp × ne × fl × fi × fc × L

It looks horrible, but it's really easy to understand. Its purpose is to take some numbers we can estimate from our existing knowledge rather than totally guess, plug them all together and come up with the magic number "N" an estimate on the number of contactable civilizations.

We can start by taking the average rate of star formation (R*) in our Galaxy, the Milky Way. A strange factor to consider perhaps, but understanding how many stars form each year allows us to ultimately consider how many civilizations are born each year. Current theory suggests this number, in the Milky Way, is about 10 new stars per year.

The second item fр defines the fraction of those stars which have planets and, according to current scientific values, is something like 50 percent.

Of the remaining values, we can actually look closer to home and learn from our very own solar system. Taking ne and fΙ, which explain the number of planets that can support life and the fraction of those planets where life actually evolves, and applying to the Solar System, will suggest a couple of possible options.

Obviously, Earth can support life (as we know it) and perhaps in the past so has Mars, this gives us an answer of 2 for the first point but we should also perhaps consider Europa and Titan as they, too, may harbor conditions where life, however primitive or weird, may be able to evolve, giving us an answer of 4 instead. The fraction where life evolves is at least 1 but it's thought that if the conditions are right, then life will evolve to some degree, at some time, leaving f

We can then apply some decent and pretty reliable numbers to the final factors in Drake's equation. fⁱ is the fraction of those life bearing planets where intelligent life evolves. From our own Solar System we know of only one place where intelligent life has evolved (although sometimes I do wonder) leaving us with 25 percent.

According to the SETI organization, fⁱrefers to the "fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space" and comes in at a meager 1 percent.

Finally comes "L," the length of time that the civilization releases detectable signals into space, which, using humans as an example, this technological advancement can be estimated at 10,000 years.

So this is the exciting bit, plug those numbers all in to the equation and you come up with... (drum roll please) ...50!

Is that really it?

The number of contactable civilizations in our Galaxy, right now, that we might communicate with, is just 50... fifty? It's estimated that there is around 400 billion stars in our Galaxy and, according to my numbers (which, by their nature are educated guesses), there are just 50 alien civilizations that we could communicate with.

42 surely?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

I don't think it goes on forever cos remember Buzz Lightyear could go to infinity and beyond. And he was one smart dude. Some of this is getting too mathematical for me. I'm still not completely sure how planes can fly. I think it's something to do with lift and cross-dressing.

Its actually a wall at the end I know that cos I heard it on an LP !

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Great bit of copy/paste.

Just a guess.

As always you have something intelligent to say , like mmmmmm Nothing !

Seriously do you not get embarrassed by your lack of actions or proper debate about anything. I mean you must know something about something surly.

If not do you think you could just try and ignore posts that don't interest you.

[nedflanders123]

Nothing like a good conspiracy. Have watched the documentaries that say there was no man on the moon , they are good and make you question the facts.However have also watched the documentaries that ridicule the ones that say they was never a man put on the moon.Who knows as you say the USSR was out in front in the space race. However when you look at the pictures taken of earth from the moon and the shuttle space craft they are absolutely stunning. Also the many video movies of the moon surface again from the shuttle they are real going by maps of the moonHere we are today putting robotic machines onto the surface of Mars.Many people believe the American government blow up the New York towers and if you watch the documentaries its easy to understand why so many think like that. There is nothing further from the truth on the towers the planes brought them down.Diana is another one that can be open to question especially when you have the mother of an ex girlfriend to an SAS soldier writing to the chief of defence about how Dina was taken out which match eye witnesses accounts outside the tunnel seeing extremely bright light shinning before the noise of the crash. A well know SAS tactic to blind the so called enemy.Plenty conspiracies to keep the mind working overtime.UFOs for me are real. We have mentioned before that scientists now know there are galaxies out there made of the same stuff our own galaxy is made of which are millions of years older than our galaxy. All it takes is a planet like our own to be millions of years advanced. Einstein says its possible to travel billions of miles is seconds through worm holes. Anything is possible as they say the truth is out there ( somewhere )

Maybe a good discussion over a pint one day Ian?

[faraway saint]

As always you have something intelligent to say , like mmmmmm Nothing !

Seriously do you not get embarrassed by your lack of actions or proper debate about anything. I mean you must know something about something surly.

If not do you think you could just try and ignore posts that don't interest you.

Deleted, unnecessary response.

Me, well I strive to have a bit of a laugh on here.

I suppose it's appreciated by some.

Edited May 28, 2015 by faraway saint

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Maybe a good discussion over a pint one day Ian?

Will PM you or you PM when the new season starts and we will have that pint

[saintnextlifetime]

Which makes it so interesting Neil, its mind bending has been since man has been on this planet everything from the Incas to Egyptians even Indian religions east and west have had a fascination with space

Not forgetting of course , the Sumerians . . . .whom , perhaps developed the earliest form of writing known to us. .

[bluto]

FFS!

It's when you read threads like this, that you start to realise how utterly infinitely the Close Season stretches ahead of us...

[faraway saint]

FFS!

It's when you read threads like this, that you start to realise how utterly infinitely the Close Season stretches ahead of us...

If you don't like it ......... well, you can guess the rest.

[saintnextlifetime]

FFS!

It's when you read threads like this, that you start to realise how utterly infinitely the Close Season stretches ahead of us...

Obviously. .

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Not forgetting of course , the Sumerians . . . .whom , perhaps developed the earliest form of writing known to us. .

Picked up an old Egyptian calendar which was used some 5,000 years ago. Have got it framed though sitting in a walk in cupboard

which is a shame as its fascinating to look at.

Hope FS does not mind me copying and pasting a bit about it.

Here are imagines of the calendar well worth a look

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=old+style+egyption+calendar&newwindow=1&biw=1280&bih=906&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=jRVmVd3DOsS4ogTpxIH4BA&ved=0CCMQsAQ#imgrc=z6hHk6NvVX5_KM%253A%3BhNTaFwxI1rWFPM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimage.shutterstock.com%252Fdisplay_pic_with_logo%252F68798%252F68798%252C1192887564%252C1%252Fstock-photo-blue-egyptian-calendar-on-a-original-papyrus-6250045.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.shutterstock.com%252Fpic-6250045%252Fstock-photo-blue-egyptian-calendar-on-a-original-papyrus.html%3B450%3B358

About the calendar

The ancient Egyptian calendar was invented over 5000 years ago. It was originally based on the lunar cycle of 12 months, which the Egyptians grouped into three seasons of four months each to coincide with the rise and fall of the waters of the Nile. However, although the flooding of the Nile began each year around the end of June, the floods occurred within a range of 80 days and were not accurate enough to base a calendar on. So the ancient Egyptians, having noticed that the Nile’s rising coincided with the heliacal rising of the star Sirius, the brightest star in the sky, based the year on the cycle of its reappearance.

The beginning of the year, also called "the opening of the year", was determined by the appearance of the star Sirius, in the constellation of Canis Major, which occurred around June 21st. However, because the rising of Sirius is a stellar event, which means it occurs every 365 ¼ days, the rising of the star did not precisely match the calendar, which was based on the lunar cycle and so had an average of 354 days--11 days less than a solar year. This meant that the rising of the star would very quickly be out of sync with the calendar. To correct this, the Egyptians introduced an extra month to create a “Great Year” of 384 days every 2 or 3 years.

However, because this calendar was either not accurate enough, too complicated, or unsuitable for economic and administrative purposes, a standard calendar was introduced in the Old Kingdom to run along side the lunar calendar. This calendar, which probably resulted from counting the number of days between successive risings of Sirius.

The new “Civic” calendar year was divided into 3 seasons, each with four months. Each of the 12 months had 30 days divided into 3 decades (weeks) of 10 days each for a total of 360 days. The seasons of the Egyptian calendar were believed to have been chosen to correspond to the cycles of the Nile which was central to the life of the Egyptians. Because they lived an agrarian lifestyle the seasons were named after the significant events for farming. Translated to our Gregorian calendar, the dates of these seasons seem to vary considerably as do the names of both the seasons and the months. For example, the season of Akhet, is considered by one reference to occur between August 29th and December 26th, whereas another references place it between June 21st and October 21st .

[stlucifer]

Picked up an old Egyptian calendar which was used some 5,000 years ago. Have got it framed though sitting in a walk in cupboard

which is a shame as its fascinating to look at.

Hope FS does not mind me copying and pasting a bit about it.

Here are imagines of the calendar well worth a look

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=old+style+egyption+calendar&newwindow=1&biw=1280&bih=906&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=jRVmVd3DOsS4ogTpxIH4BA&ved=0CCMQsAQ#imgrc=z6hHk6NvVX5_KM%253A%3BhNTaFwxI1rWFPM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimage.shutterstock.com%252Fdisplay_pic_with_logo%252F68798%252F68798%252C1192887564%252C1%252Fstock-photo-blue-egyptian-calendar-on-a-original-papyrus-6250045.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.shutterstock.com%252Fpic-6250045%252Fstock-photo-blue-egyptian-calendar-on-a-original-papyrus.html%3B450%3B358

About the calendar

The ancient Egyptian calendar was invented over 5000 years ago. It was originally based on the lunar cycle of 12 months, which the Egyptians grouped into three seasons of four months each to coincide with the rise and fall of the waters of the Nile. However, although the flooding of the Nile began each year around the end of June, the floods occurred within a range of 80 days and were not accurate enough to base a calendar on. So the ancient Egyptians, having noticed that the Nile’s rising coincided with the heliacal rising of the star Sirius, the brightest star in the sky, based the year on the cycle of its reappearance.

The beginning of the year, also called "the opening of the year", was determined by the appearance of the star Sirius, in the constellation of Canis Major, which occurred around June 21st. However, because the rising of Sirius is a stellar event, which means it occurs every 365 ¼ days, the rising of the star did not precisely match the calendar, which was based on the lunar cycle and so had an average of 354 days--11 days less than a solar year. This meant that the rising of the star would very quickly be out of sync with the calendar. To correct this, the Egyptians introduced an extra month to create a “Great Year” of 384 days every 2 or 3 years.

However, because this calendar was either not accurate enough, too complicated, or unsuitable for economic and administrative purposes, a standard calendar was introduced in the Old Kingdom to run along side the lunar calendar. This calendar, which probably resulted from counting the number of days between successive risings of Sirius.

The new “Civic” calendar year was divided into 3 seasons, each with four months. Each of the 12 months had 30 days divided into 3 decades (weeks) of 10 days each for a total of 360 days. The seasons of the Egyptian calendar were believed to have been chosen to correspond to the cycles of the Nile which was central to the life of the Egyptians. Because they lived an agrarian lifestyle the seasons were named after the significant events for farming. Translated to our Gregorian calendar, the dates of these seasons seem to vary considerably as do the names of both the seasons and the months. For example, the season of Akhet, is considered by one reference to occur between August 29th and December 26th, whereas another references place it between June 21st and October 21st .

Which brings up an important question.

Why are you sitting in a walk in cupboard?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

That's a secret , mine is not 5,000 years old I should point out