Latest Accounts To May 2015

[buddiecat]

The profit and loss account tells you that the Club was better run last year than the previous year. On paper it made a loss as a result of depreciation on the stadium value (equals zero corporation tax) In reality when the depreciation is taken off it made a slight profit

The balance sheet is a snapshot on time. It tells you that at some point in time in the last year the club had £250k of Directors money put in to it. This may have been to deal with a short term cashflow or maybe the Directors agreed to pay the loan back at a rate of 500% and saw it as a way of fleecing the club of some money.

Having Director Loans in a business assists a business in more than dealing with cashflow issues

To many so google accountants on this thread trying to decipher a set of accounts that are only accurate for the day they were made.

£145K last year and £100k carried over from the year before does not equal £250k and they were not both loaned last year. Welcome to the world of so Google accountants.

[pod]

A builder agrees a job for £10k. He gets £5k now and £5k when he finishes.

It will cost him £5k in wages and £5k in materials.

If he does his accounts before he gets the £10k then may show him breaking even... But having a cash flow issue...

I think he's ripping you off.

[div]

It is much simpler than that. At Love Street the land was an asset. They clearly realised that asset when they successfully sold the land to Tesco. The land the new stadium sits on is of far lower value.

If you like what the board did is they moved out of a fixer upper in Knightsbridge and in to a gleaming new Barratt Box in Brixton. That's fine so long the money realised from the effective downsizing is carefully invested which it clearly hasn't been. St Mirren don't even own the land the academy sits on in Ralston.

Ofcourse the club has gone backwards since they took over. What could they possibly sell today that would raise the reported £15m that they got for Love Street.

The land at Love Street only became an asset because it came with the golden ticket of retail planning permission. Tesco paid top dollar for that because they were desperate to get into the town. You know that. I know you know that.

You also know the total deal was worth about £7m - £8m tops. Tesco cleared the debt, and had the stadium built. There was enough left in the kitty to fit out Ralston which, although isn't ours per se, we have a 60 year lease on.

It was a stupendous deal, especially coming as it did right on the cusp of a giant recession.

I know you hate the board because they didn't take you up on your SMS text messaging service idea 20 years ago Stuart, but you really do need to let that go.

[oaksoft]

The deal for love street was worth only 8 million the new ground cost 5 million I know this because my neighbour is a tesco store manager who was showing the details of the deal along with other deals they had done around the country.

there is absolutely ZERO chance of a lowly store manager having access to that sort of information.

FFS.

[oaksoft]

The land at Love Street only became an asset because it came with the golden ticket of retail planning permission. Tesco paid top dollar for that because they were desperate to get into the town. You know that. I know you know that.

You also know the total deal was worth about £7m - £8m tops. Tesco cleared the debt, and had the stadium built. There was enough left in the kitty to fit out Ralston which, although isn't ours per se, we have a 60 year lease on.

It was a stupendous deal, especially coming as it did right on the cusp of a giant recession.

I know you hate the board because they didn't take you up on your SMS text messaging service idea 20 years ago Stuart, but you really do need to let that go.

this last sentence is the clincher to all of dicko's frustration over the last two decades.

every post of his screams frustration, anger and disappointment.

and all in the most embarassing and public manner.

its all a bit sad, pathetic and cringeworthy to see a grown man so obviously incapable of handling rejection.

not even enough personal dignity to deal with his pain in private.

[Stuart Dickson]

£15M? Where was that "reported"?

Shortroods is the Paisley equivalent of Knightsbridge. Feckin hell - do you script write for The Comedy Club?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12777178.Alexander_praised_for_St_Mirren_deal/

Tesco has agreed a £15m purchase of the Love Street stadium in Paisley and yesterday the club unveiled plans for its stadium in Ferguslie Park in the town.

http://www.propertyweek.com/st-mirren-given-new-stadium-as-tesco-plans-housing-scheme/3130752.article

Tesco has bought the Love Street site in a deal understood to be worth £15m.

http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/topic/17289-tesco-agree-to-15m-deal/page-38

Tesco Agree To £15m Deal

Don't worry, I never believed it was worth that much either - but for whatever reason that was the figure the board were happy to tout around in 2007.

[Stuart Dickson]

The land at Love Street only became an asset because it came with the golden ticket of retail planning permission. Tesco paid top dollar for that because they were desperate to get into the town. You know that. I know you know that.

You also know the total deal was worth about £7m - £8m tops. Tesco cleared the debt, and had the stadium built. There was enough left in the kitty to fit out Ralston which, although isn't ours per se, we have a 60 year lease on.

It was a stupendous deal, especially coming as it did right on the cusp of a giant recession.

I know you hate the board because they didn't take you up on your SMS text messaging service idea 20 years ago Stuart, but you really do need to let that go.

Really Div? I offered the club 33% of the annual turnover of my business. That's turnover, not profit, turnover - and not just on St Mirren related subscriptions either. Fortunately Gilmour - and it was Gilmour alone - rejected it saying I was a loose cannon that he couldn't work with. If you think that's the reason I dislike the board you are far more stupid that I ever gave you credit for.

The sale of Love Street was a superb piece of business. I've never argued anything other than that. Whether it was for £8m, £15m or £100m St Mirren couldn't have done better if they'd donned a mask and robbed Tesco at gunpoint. Where the board went wrong was that having realised that asset by selling it, they then went on to squander the proceeds building a stadium - albeit a reasonably nice stadium - that is only properly used 18 times a year, and on improving council owned land at Ralston in some bizarre vanity project that has failed spectacularly to produce the kind of quality or return on investment that their outlay demanded.

The club now is on a downward tailspin. The club hasn't turn a decent profit in over 17 years. The Academy at Ralston is at risk of becoming a fiscal liability if the SFA change the course of their funding as appears to be expected and the chances of the new stadium ever being sold for £8m, £15m or £100m is little more than an absolute fantasy. The club can't even realise a return on investment at Ralston by renting out their pitches thanks to the agreement they signed with the local council - even Wishaw Juniors weren't that naive.

[RickMcD]

there is absolutely ZERO chance of a lowly store manager having access to that sort of information.

FFS.

There is most definitely a much better than zero chance. Once the deal is done, many big companies send out details to their branches/outlets to demonstrate what clever boys they were yet again. In that case of course they were far from being clever and we should all be eternally grateful.

[Stuart Dickson]

Well I never.....£15M? Jings. That must mean there are more missing millions than the last attempt to build the GARL through compulsory land purchase.

A cynic might say the inflated deal value was to inflate the value of the club with the new stadium. I'm surprised the deal was not reported as "for an undisclosed fee" as is the norm in football circles.

Whichever way you look at it, the deal to move to the new ground was an outstanding piece of business. Teams like Motherwell, Aberdeen, Morton, Dunfermline and so many others can only look on with envy.

Absolutely Slash. As I've said I've never argued any other way. A fantastic deal.....incredible even. Which to mind makes it even more galling that no one took the opportunity afforded to them to make the new stadium something that would have been utilised every day of the week.

BTW if you want even more fun with this story try the Wiki page on it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mirren_Park

Sold for £15m, new stadium cost £8m. Let's say the debt was £2m and I've seen figures of £1m bandied about for Ralston - which would seem pretty reasonable. Now arithmetic is apparently not my strong point according to some on here so someone better check my figures, but I reckon that's £4m unaccounted for.

Now admittedly these are figures off Wikipedia and I still don't believe the £15m figure quoted for the sale but perhaps someone with more time than me can pull out the accounts for 2007, 2008 and 2009 and see what exactly was accounted for in the sale of Love Street.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[div]

Really Div? I offered the club 33% of the annual turnover of my business. That's turnover, not profit, turnover - and not just on St Mirren related subscriptions either. Fortunately Gilmour - and it was Gilmour alone - rejected it saying I was a loose cannon that he couldn't work with. If you think that's the reason I dislike the board you are far more stupid that I ever gave you credit for.

So if that isn't the reason you absolutely hate the board what IS the reason then?

Why have you spent the last ten+ years telling everyone how much you hate St.Mirren, yet you keep turning up at games and you spend hours every day trolling St.Mirren fans on a St.Mirren supporters website.

I'ts bizarre behaviour for a grown man, and even more bizarre because on the odd time I've met or spoken to you, you were a sensible enough bloke.

Doesn't really add up.

[oaksoft]

There is most definitely a much better than zero chance. Once the deal is done, many big companies send out details to their branches/outlets to demonstrate what clever boys they were yet again. In that case of course they were far from being clever and we should all be eternally grateful.

We certainly should be very grateful.

The timing was absolutely perfect and too many people forget that in our current plight.

[BLF]

iirc the deal was for something like £15m but it worked like this.

£2.5m immediately to pay off the debt.

£6-8m towards building the stadium

the balance in a 'savings' account earning interest. The funds in this account were returned to Tesco at the end of the deal but the interest was St Mirren's to keep - this was spent fitting out Ralston and 'personalising' St Mirren Park. The reason it was set up like that was that Tesco agreed to 'underwrite' the costs of the stadium and the BoD wanted reassurances the stadium would not get half built and we run out of funds. (that's all according to memory, so I am happy to be corrected)

[Lord Pityme]

Absolutely Slash. As I've said I've never argued any other way. A fantastic deal.....incredible even. Which to mind makes it even more galling that no one took the opportunity afforded to them to make the new stadium something that would have been utilised every day of the week.

BTW if you want even more fun with this story try the Wiki page on it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mirren_Park

Sold for £15m, new stadium cost £8m. Let's say the debt was £2m and I've seen figures of £1m bandied about for Ralston - which would seem pretty reasonable. Now arithmetic is apparently not my strong point according to some on here so someone better check my figures, but I reckon that's £4m unaccounted for.

Now admittedly these are figures off Wikipedia and I still don't believe the £15m figure quoted for the sale but perhaps someone with more time than me can pull out the accounts for 2007, 2008 and 2009 and see what exactly was accounted for in the sale of Love Street.

Are you saying someone is swimming in club card points?

Thats a lot of trips to Alton Towers.

[Stuart Dickson]

So if that isn't the reason you absolutely hate the board what IS the reason then?

Why have you spent the last ten+ years telling everyone how much you hate St.Mirren, yet you keep turning up at games and you spend hours every day trolling St.Mirren fans on a St.Mirren supporters website.

I'ts bizarre behaviour for a grown man, and even more bizarre because on the odd time I've met or spoken to you, you were a sensible enough bloke.

Doesn't really add up.

I don't believe I have ever told anyone that I "hate St Mirren" at any point in my life. I just simply can't and won't "support" the club with this current board of directors in place. I could list all of the reasons why I am critical of a number of members on the current board - I certainly remember them - but I don't think anyone will want to go back over all that old ground. It's probably suffice to point out that I renounced my "support" for the club in September 2002 having becoming disgusted by the behaviour of a handful of people - directors and officials - at the club that were simply behaving in a manner that didn't represent me or my values in any way.

As for why I post on here? Well your daft moderators on Pie and Bovril banned me from there.

[Stuart Dickson]

Are you saying someone is swimming in club card points?

Thats a lot of trips to Alton Towers.

I like the picture that paints. Very good

The truth is though I'm not really saying anything beyond the fact that the club clearly isn't worth as much today as it was when Gilmour and Co took it over. There is no asset in the club worth either £8m or £15m for future owners to sell off and whatever the true value of the sale of Love Street actually was, its clear the opportunity to build a revenue raising profitable new home from scratch has been totally wasted. Even the Douglas Street consortium agree with that since their valuation of the club when it was put on the market in 2009 appeared to be around the £4m mark - £2m for 52% of the club.

I'm not clever enough to work out a motive as to why anyone would want to inflate the value of the sale after the deal was done and I certainly don't think the directors at Douglas Street shared a payout of £4m amongst themselves. I also can't remember any talk of a shareholders dividend at any point in my lifetime. But those are the figures that were being banded around, and that still exist across a number of sources on the web to this day and no-one has ever challenged the apparent mismatch of figures. Maybe BLF is right and that was how the deal was done, although it seems like a pretty bizarre way to do it. Surely if Tesco paid St Mirren £15m and allowed the club to spend as much of it as they want before paying Tesco back the directors would have spent far more of the money. And surely if the club handed back £4m to Tesco at the end of the deal that would make the sale price £11m and not the £15m being quoted.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[BLF]

I like the picture that paints. Very good

The truth is though I'm not really saying anything beyond the fact that the club clearly isn't worth as much today as it was when Gilmour and Co took it over. There is no asset in the club worth either £8m or £15m for future owners to sell off and whatever the true value of the sale of Love Street actually was, its clear the opportunity to build a revenue raising profitable new home from scratch has been totally wasted. Even the Douglas Street consortium agree with that since their valuation of the club when it was put on the market in 2009 appeared to be around the £4m mark - £2m for 52% of the club.

I'm not clever enough to work out a motive as to why anyone would want to inflate the value of the sale after the deal was done and I certainly don't think the directors at Douglas Street shared a payout of £4m amongst themselves. I also can't remember any talk of a shareholders dividend at any point in my lifetime. But those are the figures that were being banded around, and that still exist across a number of sources on the web to this day and no-one has ever challenged the apparent mismatch of figures. Maybe BLF is right and that was how the deal was done, although it seems like a pretty bizarre way to do it. Surely if Tesco paid St Mirren £15m and allowed the club to spend as much of it as they want before paying Tesco back the directors would have spent far more of the money. And surely if the club handed back £4m to Tesco at the end of the deal that would make the sale price £11m and not the £15m being quoted.

Tesco never 'paid' £15m as I understand it, they allocated those funds to the project then spent the money themselves, better bargaining with Barr etc. Also the reason the directors didn't 'spend more' as such, was that the deal was for an SPL compliant stadium, nothing more, nothing less.

Again - from memory - happy to be corrected!

[Dirty Sanchez]

Tesco never 'paid' £15m as I understand it, they allocated those funds to the project then spent the money themselves, better bargaining with Barr etc. Also the reason the directors didn't 'spend more' as such, was that the deal was for an SPL compliant stadium, nothing more, nothing less.

Again - from memory - happy to be corrected!

This is how I remember it, although I can't remember the source. It may have been mentioned at a 10000 hours meeting, or a Q and A. Tesco gave us the money, built the stadium, then took the money back, minus interest. This was to prevènt the project running over budget at our expense. There was never any king's ransom to play with.

[stripey]

A new stadium built, you would have thought that the clubs disabled supporters would have been taken into consideration, with regards to cover. Instead there was nothing done. Eventually over time SMDSA came into being and have had to battle all the way and indeed have made some progress. At the last meeting Brian Caldwell was supposed to turn up and give us a firm date on when cover for the disabled will be carried out, unfortunately he had other commitments which took priority. It makes the whole issue of cover all the more disturbing if indeed monies were handed back to Tesco.

To date SMDSA have achieved much good work, but the most important issue i.e. cover for the disabled has still not taken place and until it is I for one will not believe it.

[Callum Gilhooley]

A new stadium built, you would have thought that the clubs disabled supporters would have been taken into consideration, with regards to cover. Instead there was nothing done. Eventually over time SMDSA came into being and have had to battle all the way and indeed have made some progress. At the last meeting Brian Caldwell was supposed to turn up and give us a firm date on when cover for the disabled will be carried out, unfortunately he had other commitments which took priority. It makes the whole issue of cover all the more disturbing if indeed monies were handed back to Tesco.

To date SMDSA have achieved much good work, but the most important issue i.e. cover for the disabled has still not taken place and until it is I for one will not believe it.

You would have thought so. I hear the directors lounge is lovely though.

[oaksoft]

Absolutely Slash. As I've said I've never argued any other way. A fantastic deal.....incredible even. Which to mind makes it even more galling that no one took the opportunity afforded to them to make the new stadium something that would have been utilised every day of the week.

BTW if you want even more fun with this story try the Wiki page on it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mirren_Park

Sold for £15m, new stadium cost £8m. Let's say the debt was £2m and I've seen figures of £1m bandied about for Ralston - which would seem pretty reasonable. Now arithmetic is apparently not my strong point according to some on here so someone better check my figures, but I reckon that's £4m unaccounted for.

Now admittedly these are figures off Wikipedia and I still don't believe the £15m figure quoted for the sale but perhaps someone with more time than me can pull out the accounts for 2007, 2008 and 2009 and see what exactly was accounted for in the sale of Love Street.

Oh FFS 4 million unaccounted for?

Seriously?

You genuinely believe there is a 4 million pound hole?

You got your figures from bloody Wikipedia?

Utterly pathetic.

[Callum Gilhooley]

Oh FFS 4 million unaccounted for?

Seriously?

You genuinely believe there is a 4 million pound hole?

You got your figures from bloody Wikipedia?

Utterly pathetic.

Makes sense . Where else could we have found the money for Cheesys wages.

[RickMcD]

Makes sense . Where else could we have found the money for Cheesys wages.

Still doesn't add up. It's common knowledge of course that Marc was only on £10,000 a week in his final year. So making reasonable estimates of the four years before his last season I estimate that he probably only earned about £2,000,000 over the full five years. And worth every penny. So another couple of million still to be accounted for.

[shull]

Still not had the Annual Accounts or Notice of Meeting emailed or posted to me.

And that useless Manager is still there.

St Shambles FC

[Callum Gilhooley]

Still doesn't add up. It's common knowledge of course that Marc was only on £10,000 a week in his final year. So making reasonable estimates of the four years before his last season I estimate that he probably only earned about £2,000,000 over the full five years. And worth every penny. So another couple of million still to be accounted for.

What about his win Bonuses ?

Edited December 12, 2015 by Callum Gilhooley

[RickMcD]

Right enough. Better add another £500. That will about cover it.