I Told You Teachers Were Workshy Lazy Bastards

[Stuart Dickson]

that link says 35 hour week not 22.5. you cant have teachers spending 35 hours in a class ffs. how stupid can you be?

You can't read can you? I've repeatedly said "teaching hours". I've got little interest in how long teachers spend gossiping in staff rooms or drinking cups of tea. As far as I can see it's one of the few professions that make full time footballers look like hard done to grafters

[Guest TPAFKATS]

This notion of hugely generous public sector pension arrangements is fanciful.

If I retire (before I die) with a reasonable pension, it will be in no small part due to the fact that I pay substantially more into my pot than most private sector workers on a comparable income.

I also heard a rumour that some public sector workers, NHS, not sure about others get 25% LESS state pension despite paying the same national insurance.

Would this be correct?

[Ayrshire Saints]

Pathological hatred of teachers over many years posting = bullied at school and still holds the teachers responsible for not preventing it.

[Drew]

I think you will find MOST people don't consider the impact of pensions until too late in their working life. They would sooner have the latest cars, TVs, phones, etc. Most will spend more time researching where to go on holiday next summer than they ever will planning how to manage their pension.

According to recent research the average pension pot in UK at retirement is £43,000.

http://www.moneywise.co.uk/pensions/managing-your-pension/10-pension-mistakes-you-cant-afford-to-make

You have made a decision to invest for the future - that is more than most will do be that public or private sector.

I started working in the public sector twenty years ago, and was automatically enrolled in a pension scheme. I've routinely contributed at around 10% of my gross income towards my pension. The average contribution in the private sector is roughly half that, or thereabouts.

This applies to the majority of public sector workers (ie - automatic enrolment), and has done for many years. Public sector workers are generally more inclined to remain in a single pension scheme and consistently contribute, whereas many private sector workers are more mobile in the employment market, and therefore default or chop and change, resulting in erratic contributions.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Drew

[Stuart Dickson]

I can't believe public sector employees complain about their pensions. It's the most bizarre thing ever.

First off the public sector was the last area of employment to remove valuable final salary pension schemes as a benefit to new employees. Second, even those who aren't on final salary schemes are enrolled in money purchase schemes through their local authority where their contributions are usually matched which is again a huge benefit in kind, the Third if you compare the lot of the public sector workers and their pensions schemes to those offered in many private sector companies you'll find that until 2 years ago many private sector workers had to make their own pension arrangements in a private pension scheme without any assistance, contribution or benefit from their employers - and that's only changed now because of the stakeholder pension arrangements that were pushed through by the coalition government. Even then most private sector companies are offering minimal assistance.

My pension provisions probably aren't going to be sufficient as things stand right now but I have no intention of retiring at any point but then if I ever do my income wouldn't be wholly derived from my pension.

[Stuart Dickson]

What, even more bizarre than you thinking that anyone on here believes a word you post?

Shhh you. I'm talking about money. You natsi's have no clue about money, economics, finance or anything like that.

[oaksoft]

You can't read can you? I've repeatedly said "teaching hours". I've got little interest in how long teachers spend gossiping in staff rooms or drinking cups of tea. As far as I can see it's one of the few professions that make full time footballers look like hard done to grafters

mobody cares what you think about teachers but you are not getting away with insinuating that they only do a 22.5 hour week with the rest made up of tea breaks and gossip.

[Stuart Dickson]

mobody cares what you think about teachers but you are not getting away with insinuating that they only do a 22.5 hour week with the rest made up of tea breaks and gossip.

I'm not insinuating anything. I'm in fact quoting the teachinscotland.org website ad to recruit teachers. It states clearly that there will be a maximum of 22.5 hours per week devoted to classroom contact. I don't think it could be any clearer. It also states that they only work 195 days per year whilst your average full time worker in the UK will work a minimum of 35 hours per week, 233 days per annum. Teaching is without doubt a part time job under any definition and since teachers sign a full time contract with local authorities I think it's only fair that they make up their shortfall in hours by assisting their employers in other roles that they would be skilled enough to do. Jobs like sorting refuse out at the local recycling centre, picking up litter on the streets, and in gritting the roads in the winter.

It is precisely because they are allowed to be lazy and to have so many days off that when it comes to actually having to do a days work they appear to be struggling to cope.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[beyond our ken]

Congratulations on your new Job.

he failed the aptitude test and the medical

Officially not fit to clean lavvies

[Stu]

I'm not insinuating anything. I'm in fact quoting the teachinscotland.org website ad to recruit teachers. It states clearly that there will be a maximum of 22.5 hours per week devoted to classroom contact. I don't think it could be any clearer. It also states that they only work 195 days per year whilst your average full time worker in the UK will work a minimum of 35 hours per week, 233 days per annum. Teaching is without doubt a part time job under any definition and since teachers sign a full time contract with local authorities I think it's only fair that they make up their shortfall in hours by assisting their employers in other roles that they would be skilled enough to do. Jobs like sorting refuse out at the local recycling centre, picking up litter on the streets, and in gritting the roads in the winter.

It is precisely because they are allowed to be lazy and to have so many days off that when it comes to actually having to do a days work they appear to be struggling to cope.

That is truly the greatest idea I've ever heard. And by greatest, I mean craziest.

I love threads like these. Not because I have a great deal of interest in what's being discussed, but because of the seething mess the forum's equivalent of RIchard Littlejohn becomes as everyone points and laughs.

[RossTheBoss]

Suggesting that teachers only work 22.5 hours a week because that's how many hours there are pupils in front of them is laughable. Does the time a surgeon spends looking over patient notes not count as work? Does the time a pilot spends reading the maps not count as work? Does the time a pipe fitter spends measuring the pipe not count as work?

[pozbaird]

I attended Johnstone High School between 1974 and 1978. I owe those teachers a lot. I still remember many of their names, and the patience, dedication, and enthusiasm they showed. I genuinely became enthused myself about the subjects some of them taught. Maybe it was somewhat a 'last age of innocence' as we were just a bunch of ruffians who liked playing fitba' and listening to heavy metal, and supped a cheeky wee can of cheap lager behind the bikesheds... And we still had the belt... The PE teachers could really 'draw it', but still.... I owe my career, in a great part, to the teachers at Johnstone High, who taught me, educated me, steered me through my exams and treated me like an adult.

Just saying like. Let's hear it for the good teachers. Pretty sure they need to put up with a lot more these days than just some hoo-hahs turning up to class wearing Rush and AC/DC tour badges all over their blazers.

[Stu]

I attended Johnstone High School between 1974 and 1978. I owe those teachers a lot. I still remember many of their names, and the patience, dedication, and enthusiasm they showed. I genuinely became enthused myself about the subjects some of them taught. Maybe it was somewhat a 'last age of innocence' as we were just a bunch of ruffians who liked playing fitba' and listening to heavy metal, and supped a cheeky wee can of cheap lager behind the bikesheds... And we still had the belt... The PE teachers could really 'draw it', but still.... I owe my career, in a great part, to the teachers at Johnstone High, who taught me, educated me, steered me through my exams and treated me like an adult.

Just saying like. Let's hear it for the good teachers. Pretty sure they need to put up with a lot more these days than just some hoo-hahs turning up to class wearing Rush and AC/DC tour badges all over their blazers.

I'm not sure of the exact dates he worked there but there must be a decent chance you were taught history by my dad. My mate's dad would have taught maths there at about the same time.

[oaksoft]

I'm not insinuating anything. I'm in fact quoting the teachinscotland.org website ad to recruit teachers. It states clearly that there will be a maximum of 22.5 hours per week devoted to classroom contact. I don't think it could be any clearer. It also states that they only work 195 days per year whilst your average full time worker in the UK will work a minimum of 35 hours per week, 233 days per annum. Teaching is without doubt a part time job under any definition and since teachers sign a full time contract with local authorities I think it's only fair that they make up their shortfall in hours by assisting their employers in other roles that they would be skilled enough to do. Jobs like sorting refuse out at the local recycling centre, picking up litter on the streets, and in gritting the roads in the winter.

It is precisely because they are allowed to be lazy and to have so many days off that when it comes to actually having to do a days work they appear to be struggling to cope.

in all seriousness, there is a reason why people like you are not allowed to be in charge of anything important.

on the same page you linked to they mentioned 22.5 hours of classroom time AS PART OF A 35 HOUR WORKING WEEK.

Many teachers have workloads including the running of departments and huge numbers of teachers work well above 45 hours a week.

the fact that you dont agree or actually realise that is not important.

in fact the long hours are causing some to consider quitting.

for me, the absolute worst part would be dealing with parents like you.

Edited December 23, 2015 by oaksoft

[Liverpool Bud]

Ok I'm l bite.

I'm proud to be a teacher .

It's a job I've done for over 20years.

I love doing the job I do - I'm in the fortunate position that I make a difference to young people and their life chances every day.

I wish the picture you paint Stu was just one percent as you describe but alas it's not and why let the facts get in the way of a little fiction.

So for the 22.5 hour working week you describe - is presumably the time spent in front of a class - I wonder how long it takes to plan that delivery - shall I tell you? Stu you seem an intelligent and articulate man - perhaps in your career you have had to deliver a seminar, a presentation, or lead a session. Say the session was 20 minutes long - I'd bet you spent at least that preparing for that. Did you factor in preparing the recourses or differentiating the resources for students or different ability - or what about having to deal with some of the challenging behaviour of a small minority of young people.

After the lesson how long do you think it takes to mark 28 folders giving individual feedback and offering a way forward.

Anyway I won't bite any more - like I said I love my job - I haven't had a day off in 3 years - I'm in relatively secure employment - I get good holidays and a reasonable pension. Like I say to anyone who slates me - my profession - the holidays or pension is If it's such an easy and good gig - Why aren't you doing it?

[pozbaird]

I'm not sure of the exact dates he worked there but there must be a decent chance you were taught history by my dad. My mate's dad would have taught maths there at about the same time.

Stu, I can remember Mr Geddes, Mr Park, Mr Lawson, Miss Watson and the headmaster, the fearsome Mr George T Steele. Some of the others I can picture their faces, but the names escape me.

Happy days though, and I certainly enjoyed History and indeed Geography and English.

[salmonbuddie]

Ok I'm l bite.

I'm proud to be a teacher .

It's a job I've done for over 20years.

I love doing the job I do - I'm in the fortunate position that I make a difference to young people and their life chances every day.

I wish the picture you paint Stu was just one percent as you describe but alas it's not and why let the facts get in the way of a little fiction.

So for the 22.5 hour working week you describe - is presumably the time spent in front of a class - I wonder how long it takes to plan that delivery - shall I tell you? Stu you seem an intelligent and articulate man - perhaps in your career you have had to deliver a seminar, a presentation, or lead a session. Say the session was 20 minutes long - I'd bet you spent at least that preparing for that. Did you factor in preparing the recourses or differentiating the resources for students or different ability - or what about having to deal with some of the challenging behaviour of a small minority of young people.

After the lesson how long do you think it takes to mark 28 folders giving individual feedback and offering a way forward.

Anyway I won't bite any more - like I said I love my job - I haven't had a day off in 3 years - I'm in relatively secure employment - I get good holidays and a reasonable pension. Like I say to anyone who slates me - my profession - the holidays or pension is If it's such an easy and good gig - Why aren't you doing it?

And that, folks, is the perfect example of a good teacher taking time to explain things simply and clearly for the benefit of the intellectually challenged.

[Stu]

Stu, I can remember Mr Geddes, Mr Park, Mr Lawson, Miss Watson and the headmaster, the fearsome Mr George T Steele. Some of the others I can picture their faces, but the names escape me.

Happy days though, and I certainly enjoyed History and indeed Geography and English.

If you enjoyed history it wasn't my dad teaching you

Mr Geddes is my mate's dad - he has since followed him into the brave world of Dickson-bating/maths teaching.

[pozbaird]

If you enjoyed history it wasn't my dad teaching you

Mr Geddes is my mate's dad - he has since followed him into the brave world of Dickson-bating/maths teaching.

Haa, I don't remember Mr Cnut the history teacher right enough! Seriously though, it could have been your dad, I would be lying if I said I could remember for sure.

Mr Geddes, eh? He wasn't the tallest - a great teacher though. Most of the pupils were taller than Mr Geddes. I remember when George T Steele arrived as headmaster from a rugby playing school. He took away one of Johnstone High's grass football pitches and erected rugby posts. They organised a 'staff v pupils' rugby match. At the end of the game, they all trooped off, bruised and battered. Mr Geddes looked like he'd taken a doing and as he walked off he said "I'm going to the pub!" Quick as a flash, a six foot plus sixth-year pupil shouted back "Give us a shout if you cannae' get served Sir!"

True story!

[Stuart Dickson]

Ok I'm l bite.

I'm proud to be a teacher .

It's a job I've done for over 20years.

I love doing the job I do - I'm in the fortunate position that I make a difference to young people and their life chances every day.

I wish the picture you paint Stu was just one percent as you describe but alas it's not and why let the facts get in the way of a little fiction.

So for the 22.5 hour working week you describe - is presumably the time spent in front of a class - I wonder how long it takes to plan that delivery - shall I tell you? Stu you seem an intelligent and articulate man - perhaps in your career you have had to deliver a seminar, a presentation, or lead a session. Say the session was 20 minutes long - I'd bet you spent at least that preparing for that. Did you factor in preparing the recourses or differentiating the resources for students or different ability - or what about having to deal with some of the challenging behaviour of a small minority of young people.

After the lesson how long do you think it takes to mark 28 folders giving individual feedback and offering a way forward.

Anyway I won't bite any more - like I said I love my job - I haven't had a day off in 3 years - I'm in relatively secure employment - I get good holidays and a reasonable pension. Like I say to anyone who slates me - my profession - the holidays or pension is If it's such an easy and good gig - Why aren't you doing it?

That's a really simple one to answer. I never wanted to do it, it certainly wasn't a vocation that I was ever interested in. As one of the tradesmen that I worked with when I was an apprentice once pointed out to me - if a teacher really was an expert in the subject they are teaching, they wouldn't be standing in a classroom teaching 11 - 16 year olds. They'd be out in the real world earning real money.

You are right though. I have had to deliver presentations and courses in my time. It's not an every day occurrence, but without thinking too much about it in some of my previous jobs I would deliver presentations training new recruits, in sales presentations and in safety inductions. The prep for each one of these would be exactly the same. I'd be doing it in my own time, usually in my home office and what I generally found was that apart from making minor tweaks from time to time to improve the quality of what I was doing, I could use the same presentation for that subject matter over and over again. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be the same for a teacher. Surely you aren't claiming they need to reinvent the wheel every time a new class year starts.

[Stuart Dickson]

That is truly the greatest idea I've ever heard. And by greatest, I mean craziest.

Why?

It's already a principle that exists in most local authorities where someone working keeping our park lands and gardens looking neat and tidy in the summer months, will move to work in gritting the roads and pavements during the winter months. With cash in short supply in our local authorities these days surely it would make sense to utilise the resources they have at their disposal rather than effectively paying our teachers to have garden leave every time the school closes for yet another holiday. I would imagine the experience would be good for the teachers too. They'd get to see what a real days work looks and feels like - albeit a days work in yet another public sector department where things are never strenuous - and perhaps they'd be able to go back and face their students with a bit more life experience under their belt and a greater understanding of some of the topics they are meant to be teaching.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[Stu]

Haa, I don't remember Mr Cnut the history teacher right enough! Seriously though, it could have been your dad, I would be lying if I said I could remember for sure.

Mr Geddes, eh? He wasn't the tallest - a great teacher though. Most of the pupils were taller than Mr Geddes. I remember when George T Steele arrived as headmaster from a rugby playing school. He took away one of Johnstone High's grass football pitches and erected rugby posts. They organised a 'staff v pupils' rugby match. At the end of the game, they all trooped off, bruised and battered. Mr Geddes looked like he'd taken a doing and as he walked off he said "I'm going to the pub!" Quick as a flash, a six foot plus sixth-year pupil shouted back "Give us a shout if you cannae' get served Sir!"

True story!

Ha yes, never the tallest! You shouldn't be sharing stories about such endeavours though, it's just more examples of teachers being lazy when they should be in classes. I can almost see the froth foaming at a certain poster's mouth from here.

[Ayrshire Saints]

This is beyond surreal bordering on the bizarre ! How can you criticise a teacher for the actual number of hours they spend in front of a class when that is something they have no control over. It's like saying a lorry driver should have a second job to fill the time he legally isn't allowed to drive but is still "on the job" or a soldier should only be paid for the time he is on the front line. What utter dross. Every job has elements to it that those that don't do it are not aware of. It really is just pure ognorance from the OP once again. He has no concept of what a teacher actualy does - as none of the rest of us would unless we were teachers. The only way to have such knowledge would be to shadow that person in the full 35 hour week for a few weeks and that is not going to happen.

Genuine question - what fuels your obvious grudge (bordering on hatred) to anyone working in the public sector. Jealousy immediately springs to mind as beyond that very few emotions run as strong in people.

[Callum Gilhooley]

Ok I'm l bite.

I'm proud to be a teacher .

It's a job I've done for over 20years.

I love doing the job I do - I'm in the fortunate position that I make a difference to young people and their life chances every day.

I wish the picture you paint Stu was just one percent as you describe but alas it's not and why let the facts get in the way of a little fiction.

So for the 22.5 hour working week you describe - is presumably the time spent in front of a class - I wonder how long it takes to plan that delivery - shall I tell you? Stu you seem an intelligent and articulate man - perhaps in your career you have had to deliver a seminar, a presentation, or lead a session. Say the session was 20 minutes long - I'd bet you spent at least that preparing for that. Did you factor in preparing the recourses or differentiating the resources for students or different ability - or what about having to deal with some of the challenging behaviour of a small minority of young people.

After the lesson how long do you think it takes to mark 28 folders giving individual feedback and offering a way forward.

Anyway I won't bite any more - like I said I love my job - I haven't had a day off in 3 years - I'm in relatively secure employment - I get good holidays and a reasonable pension. Like I say to anyone who slates me - my profession - the holidays or pension is If it's such an easy and good gig - Why aren't you doing it?

So , there was your first mistake !!

[Stu]

So , there was your first mistake !!

Must have been talking about me