The Politics Thread

[faraway saint]

24 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Independence is the way to run the country better. The issues we see are systemic across the UK. 
 

Almost every parameter in every part of the UK is worse now than it was at the 2014 referendum. It shows voting no was a huge own goal. And project fear was actually projection. 

Voting no was the right choice as not everyone is worse off.

Project fear was only an excuse for the whimpering wee souls when they lost.

Boo fecking hoo. 

[bazil85]

2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Voting no was the right choice as not everyone is worse off.

Project fear was only an excuse for the whimpering wee souls when they lost.

Boo fecking hoo. 

Pretty much everything is worse now (and it’s across the UK proving the issues are system, not devolution) 

- higher taxation 

- higher debts 

- higher deficits 

- poorer NHS/ social care performance 

- general decline of services & infrastructure. 
- disastrous leaving of the EU 
 

Project fear was a warning all these things would happen if we voted yes. I’ll give you a minute for the penny to drop  

[faraway saint]

6 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Pretty much everything is worse now (and it’s across the UK proving the issues are system, not devolution) 

- higher taxation 

- higher debts 

- higher deficits 

- poorer NHS/ social care performance 

- general decline of services & infrastructure. 
- disastrous leaving of the EU 
 

Project fear was a warning all these things would happen if we voted yes. I’ll give you a minute for the penny to drop  

Yeah, higher taxation IN SCOTLSAND, well spotted.

Debts that, over the last 49 working years I have magically survived, as have many people.

Deficits, again, I must have magic powers, not having any affect on me and the general public.

Ah, the NHS that year on year swallows up as much money as ANY government throws at it and is still a mess.......................not wholly a government issue, as most people with any sense understand.

Decline in services, that's certainly a problem, just as much down to idiotic councils not having a clue as much as any government.

Leaving the EU, wasn't that the British public that done that? 

Project fear, like all the irrelevant shite you've just posted, ironic right enough.

I'll leave it at that as you're a one trick pony and won't be able to comprehend that most of your points are timeless and will continue to be so no matter what government is on power.

 

 

[bazil85]

3 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Yeah, higher taxation IN SCOTLSAND, well spotted.

Debts that, over the last 49 working years I have magically survived, as have many people.

Deficits, again, I must have magic powers, not having any affect on me and the general public.

Ah, the NHS that year on year swallows up as much money as ANY government throws at it and is still a mess.......................not wholly a government issue, as most people with any sense understand.

Decline in services, that's certainly a problem, just as much down to idiotic councils not having a clue as much as any government.

Leaving the EU, wasn't that the British public that done that? 

Project fear, like all the irrelevant shite you've just posted, ironic right enough.

I'll leave it at that as you're a one trick pony and won't be able to comprehend that most of your points are timeless and will continue to be so no matter what government is on power.

 

 

Taxation is higher across all of the UK than it was in 2014. It’s actually around record levels in peace time. Is that just a coincidence to you? The SNP at fault for record UK taxation 😂😂
 

Left leaning government will always have higher taxation because they offset horrific right wing policy like the bedroom tax & rape clause. A more prosperous country would have a far lower baseline for taxation than we need to have because of a flagging economy & debt  

And you’d magically survive regardless of an independent Scotland or otherwise. An utter nonsense argument that doesn’t address the absolute fact that the UK government tanked the economy & caused huge debts & deficits

It’s utterly baffling you’re actually defending the UK government record on the NHS, delivering Brexit & passing the buck on declining services. 😂

It begs the question, what would actually have to get worse (because apparently ‘practically everything’ doesn’t cut it) for you to accept we made a rip roaring arse of it by staying in a failing union? 😅

Oh and project fear was a unionist approach. It is indeed ironic that all their warnings came true with a no vote.
 

You were sold a dummy & too proud to admit you got it wrong. **Cough **VAR** cough**. 
 

 

[stlucifer]

Meanwhile, across the Atlantic.

 

[beyond our ken]

On 5/3/2024 at 11:18 AM, bazil85 said:

Taxation is higher across all of the UK than it was in 2014. It’s actually around record levels in peace time. Is that just a coincidence to you? The SNP at fault for record UK taxation 😂😂
 

Left leaning government will always have higher taxation because they offset horrific right wing policy like the bedroom tax & rape clause. A more prosperous country would have a far lower baseline for taxation than we need to have because of a flagging economy & debt  

And you’d magically survive regardless of an independent Scotland or otherwise. An utter nonsense argument that doesn’t address the absolute fact that the UK government tanked the economy & caused huge debts & deficits

It’s utterly baffling you’re actually defending the UK government record on the NHS, delivering Brexit & passing the buck on declining services. 😂

It begs the question, what would actually have to get worse (because apparently ‘practically everything’ doesn’t cut it) for you to accept we made a rip roaring arse of it by staying in a failing union? 😅

Oh and project fear was a unionist approach. It is indeed ironic that all their warnings came true with a no vote.
 

You were sold a dummy & too proud to admit you got it wrong. **Cough **VAR** cough**. 
 

 

Short answer

its all about him 

As Frankie Boyle says

Brexit is Karma for people who vote Tory because they think it only f**ks up someone else

[faraway saint]

5 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

Short answer

its all about him 

As Frankie Boyle says

Brexit is Karma for people who vote Tory because they think it only f**ks up someone else

No, unfortunately it's not but iits not about exploiting the unfortunate and poor to prove a point. 

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, beyond our ken said:

Short answer

its all about him 

As Frankie Boyle says

Brexit is Karma for people who vote Tory because they think it only f**ks up someone else

Have to say, watching these local election results down south. It is utterly beyond comprehension, that areas are still backing Tory in decent numbers. 
 

Would love to actually sit and talk with a group of people that think that’s a good idea. 

[elvis]

5 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Have to say, watching these local election results down south. It is utterly beyond comprehension, that areas are still backing Tory in decent numbers. 
 

Would love to actually sit and talk with a group of people that think that’s a good idea. 

Be no point there all brain dead.

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, elvis said:

Be no point there all brain dead.

Oh my. 🤣🤣🤣

[stlucifer]

On 5/4/2024 at 2:45 PM, bazil85 said:

Have to say, watching these local election results down south. It is utterly beyond comprehension, that areas are still backing Tory in decent numbers. 
 

Would love to actually sit and talk with a group of people that think that’s a good idea. 

Because their choice is ultra right wing tory, blue tory, red tory or, god forbid, Ed Davy.

In other words, No choice.

We, on the other hand, have a real choice in independence. IF we are brave enough to vote as a nation, not for the SNP, but vote SNP for independence then we make it very difficult for the incoming labour, (red tories), to refuse a nation the right to choose their destiny.

Edited May 5 by stlucifer

[faraway saint]

I really have to laugh, is seems EVERY problem in society is down to the British government, especially the Tories.

Also, it seems, that an independent Scotland would solve all the problems and we would all l live happily ever after.

I have done a lot of traveling in the last year or so and I see little, well no, sign that society is crumbling financially.

Sure there are groups of people that have financial problems but to pin ALL the blame on the British government really takes the biscuit.

Scotland has it's fair share of social problems but the SNP are, according to some, completely blameless for this.

Now the SNP are, obviously, NOT to blame for every social/financial problem as there are large swathes of society who, for various reasons, are always going to be needy, and this has been the way since time began.

On the flip side there are plenty of "normal" hard working people, let's call them working class, who are doing all right but that, according to some, is not acceptable as everybody should have the same standard of life no matter what the circumstances.

As somebody mentioned earlier in this thread politicians are all much of a muchness and that, I'm afraid, is the way things are.

I also make no apology for working hard all my life and having the rewards that has brought. 

 

 

 

 

[eastlandssaint]

Finland boosts war readiness in face of Russian aggression (ft.com)

[antrin]

 

I think you folk should clamour for this Englishman to be First Minister.

You know it makes sense.

[bazil85]

On 5/5/2024 at 6:36 PM, stlucifer said:

Because their choice is ultra right wing tory, blue tory, red tory or, god forbid, Ed Davy.

In other words, No choice.

We, on the other hand, have a real choice in independence. IF we are brave enough to vote as a nation, not for the SNP, but vote SNP for independence then we make it very difficult for the incoming labour, (red tories), to refuse a nation the right to choose their destiny.

I completely take the point on Labour not really being any choice at all, given their polices & ideologies have aligned with the Tories. 
 

It really is a sorry state of affairs. Strange to see we still have Tory apologist. A big one on here. Imagine blaming the British government for the decline of Britain on several fronts that’s happened due to their policy & incompetence. 😂

[WeeBud]

2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

I completely take the point on Labour not really being any choice at all, given their polices & ideologies have aligned with the Tories. 
 

It really is a sorry state of affairs. Strange to see we still have Tory apologist. A big one on here. Imagine blaming the British government for the decline of Britain on several fronts that’s happened due to their policy & incompetence. 😂

I agree re the Britain part but surely the same must apply to the SNP on a Scottish basis, there have been more than a few shortcomings this last while and that will be Swinney’s biggest challenge.

[bazil85]

49 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

I agree re the Britain part but surely the same must apply to the SNP on a Scottish basis, there have been more than a few shortcomings this last while and that will be Swinney’s biggest challenge.

Absolutely. The SNP aren’t without fault or responsibility for lots of issues in their remit. 
 

But it’s just fact of matter, devolved governments can only do so much & have their hands tied by the nature of reserved governance. Ultimate accountability sits with the UK government.

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, WeeBud said:

I agree re the Britain part but surely the same must apply to the SNP on a Scottish basis, there have been more than a few shortcomings this last while and that will be Swinney’s biggest challenge.

The hardest part will be trying to remind people that. in a UK general election, voting for the SNP is not the same as doing so in a Scottish election. It is actually a vote to demand self determination and ultimately cause the disbandment of the SNP.

[ALBIONSAINT]

55 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Absolutely. The SNP aren’t without fault or responsibility for lots of issues in their remit. 
 

But it’s just fact of matter, devolved governments can only do so much & have their hands tied by the nature of reserved governance. Ultimate accountability sits with the UK government.

 

10 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

The hardest part will be trying to remind people that. in a UK general election, voting for the SNP is not the same as doing so in a Scottish election. It is actually a vote to demand self determination and ultimately cause the disbandment of the SNP.

Didn’t we have this discussion in 2014 and only 45% of the electorate thought it was a good idea? If the SNP want to change peoples beliefs about independence they have to show that the country could be well run and prosperous while they are in charge. They have had periods over the years where this has been evident, however not in the last 3-4 years. They will pay a harsh price for the Bute house agreement and letting the greens dictate the path of direction. 

[WeeBud]

1 hour ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

 

Didn’t we have this discussion in 2014 and only 45% of the electorate thought it was a good idea? If the SNP want to change peoples beliefs about independence they have to show that the country could be well run and prosperous while they are in charge. They have had periods over the years where this has been evident, however not in the last 3-4 years. They will pay a harsh price for the Bute house agreement and letting the greens dictate the path of direction. 

Again though, despite the result in 2014, SNP became more popular subsequently…….should Independence come about the shape of the SNP would have to change, indeed there is an argument that they should no longer be needed

[faraway saint]

8 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

 

Didn’t we have this discussion in 2014 and only 45% of the electorate thought it was a good idea? If the SNP want to change peoples beliefs about independence they have to show that the country could be well run and prosperous while they are in charge. They have had periods over the years where this has been evident, however not in the last 3-4 years. They will pay a harsh price for the Bute house agreement and letting the greens dictate the path of direction. 

Which I certainly agree wholeheartedly.

Instead independence has become a costly notion with a subsequent drop in standards that are still blamed on the Tories by some.

[stlucifer]

11 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

 

Didn’t we have this discussion in 2014 and only 45% of the electorate thought it was a good idea? If the SNP want to change peoples beliefs about independence they have to show that the country could be well run and prosperous while they are in charge. They have had periods over the years where this has been evident, however not in the last 3-4 years. They will pay a harsh price for the Bute house agreement and letting the greens dictate the path of direction. 

We had a debate built on many lies. Remember the published letter co-signed by various unionist politicians hyped up by the overwhelmingly unionist press. Only for most of those promises/predictions to be found false. It was debated using false premises about the lack of resources Scotland had. It was debated at a time when oil was deemed ok but Scotland apparently was running out. Now it appears oil has found its way back into Scottish waters. GO FIGURE. It was fought on the false premise that Scotland were net takers from the British coffers. It was fought on the premise that staying in the union was the only way to stay in Europe. How did that go?

Given the vast change in circumstance and the proof that the unionists simply lied, it should be fought again.

[WeeBud]

3 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Which I certainly agree wholeheartedly.

Instead independence has become a costly notion with a subsequent drop in standards that are still blamed on the Tories by some.

I'm sure it's me FS but not quite getting the point here........are you suggesting that the drop in standards is down to some people wanting Independence?? If the drop is in living standards then that can only, in the main, be dropped at the Tory door. Every penny Scotland gets to look after it's population is determined and dictated by Westminster other than the bit of revenue it can raise through the small allowable Tax Change which is largely spent on trying to look after the residents of Scotland. There are many things I disagree with the Scottish Government (SNP) on but the majority of the current shit-show is down to the Tory Party and Brexit IMO.

 

[faraway saint]

4 hours ago, WeeBud said:

I'm sure it's me FS but not quite getting the point here........are you suggesting that the drop in standards is down to some people wanting Independence?? If the drop is in living standards then that can only, in the main, be dropped at the Tory door. Every penny Scotland gets to look after it's population is determined and dictated by Westminster other than the bit of revenue it can raise through the small allowable Tax Change which is largely spent on trying to look after the residents of Scotland. There are many things I disagree with the Scottish Government (SNP) on but the majority of the current shit-show is down to the Tory Party and Brexit IMO.

 

It wasn't you I was referring to mate but since you've answered let's take this forward................

I am suggesting that there's been so much focus on Independence, after it didn't make it back in 2014, when, as I recall, a majority voted no, that plenty of local issues have been sidelined or dropped. For some reason a democratic, despite the greetin and wailing about "fear" and "lies"  as if the general public are stupid , doesn't seem to be enough for the Independence followers. 

This covers the Brexit vote which I was surprised at the result.

Again, the idea that EVERY issue that's a problem is down to the Tories is utterly ludicrous and is the usual avoidance from the SNP who use this as some sort of shield to hide the fact that they have considerable powers and authority. 

The "current shit show" is another term thrown about as if the whole country and its residents are in some sort of turmoil. Again, I see quite a different story with sporting events continuing to be popular, musical events the same, holidays abroad and at home and other social activities ( I was at Braehead last year and it was jumping) 

This isn't to say a percentage of the population are having a great time but, again, to put this at the Tory, or SNP for that matter, door is a cheap shot as we all know there are many individuals who are in a situation which is as much down to them as any other outside factors. 

I will add, for the simple among us, that I am not a Tory voter and didn't vote for Brexit. Who I vote for is, quite simply, my business and nobody else's. 

We are going over old ground here so I'll probably leave it at this as, as far as I;m concerned, independence is a done deal. 

I would, finally add if, for some reason, an independent vote was resurrected and it was a yes majority I wouldn't bay a fecking eyelid as I, as I always do, just get on with MY life. 

 

 

[WeeBud]

5 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

It wasn't you I was referring to mate but since you've answered let's take this forward................

I am suggesting that there's been so much focus on Independence, after it didn't make it back in 2014, when, as I recall, a majority voted no, that plenty of local issues have been sidelined or dropped. For some reason a democratic, despite the greetin and wailing about "fear" and "lies"  as if the general public are stupid , doesn't seem to be enough for the Independence followers. 

This covers the Brexit vote which I was surprised at the result.

Again, the idea that EVERY issue that's a problem is down to the Tories is utterly ludicrous and is the usual avoidance from the SNP who use this as some sort of shield to hide the fact that they have considerable powers and authority. 

The "current shit show" is another term thrown about as if the whole country and its residents are in some sort of turmoil. Again, I see quite a different story with sporting events continuing to be popular, musical events the same, holidays abroad and at home and other social activities ( I was at Braehead last year and it was jumping) 

This isn't to say a percentage of the population are having a great time but, again, to put this at the Tory, or SNP for that matter, door is a cheap shot as we all know there are many individuals who are in a situation which is as much down to them as any other outside factors. 

I will add, for the simple among us, that I am not a Tory voter and didn't vote for Brexit. Who I vote for is, quite simply, my business and nobody else's. 

We are going over old ground here so I'll probably leave it at this as, as far as I;m concerned, independence is a done deal. 

I would, finally add if, for some reason, an independent vote was resurrected and it was a yes majority I wouldn't bay a fecking eyelid as I, as I always do, just get on with MY life. 

 

 

I do think you sometimes see it as a "one-side" issue and Independence followers are the problem, that said my view is probably the opposite yet like you am pretty non-plussed about the situation overall 😂

 

With regards to your second last sentence I hope for the very opposite but agree in whole re your last sentence (if you flip it round a bit) 🍺🍺