The Politics Thread

[faraway saint]

4 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

I do think you sometimes see it as a "one-side" issue and Independence followers are the problem, that said my view is probably the opposite yet like you am pretty non-plussed about the situation overall 😂

 

With regards to your second last sentence I hope for the very opposite but agree in whole re your last sentence (if you flip it round a bit) 🍺🍺

I posted so much I've lost the plot what I was meaning. 

[WeeBud]

4 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

I posted so much I've lost the plot what I was meaning. 

😂

[ALBIONSAINT]

9 hours ago, stlucifer said:

We had a debate built on many lies. Remember the published letter co-signed by various unionist politicians hyped up by the overwhelmingly unionist press. Only for most of those promises/predictions to be found false. It was debated using false premises about the lack of resources Scotland had. It was debated at a time when oil was deemed ok but Scotland apparently was running out. Now it appears oil has found its way back into Scottish waters. GO FIGURE. It was fought on the false premise that Scotland were net takers from the British coffers. It was fought on the premise that staying in the union was the only way to stay in Europe. How did that go?

Given the vast change in circumstance and the proof that the unionists simply lied, it should be fought again.

All is fair in love and war. You can add politics to that. If the SNP want the electorate to vote for independence then it will be tangible changes in cost of living and life satisfaction that need to be improved. The electorate can’t be bought on promises of how better things will be when we are independent. 

[stlucifer]

31 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

All is fair in love and war. You can add politics to that. If the SNP want the electorate to vote for independence then it will be tangible changes in cost of living and life satisfaction that need to be improved. The electorate can’t be bought on promises of how better things will be when we are independent. 

 

The fact that Natalie Elphicke felt comfortable swapping benches and the red tories were more than comfortable welcoming her should make those who think Labour is an alternative in Scotland think twice. This only serves to emphasis the fact that the only real escape from the right wing fascists is to escape this toxic union. Don't think a vote for the SNP is a vote FOR them. It is a vote for freedom to choose a government more akin to the values most Scots hold dear.

 

 

Edited May 8 by stlucifer

[faraway saint]

11 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

 

The fact that Natalie Elphicke felt comfortable swapping benches and the red tories were more than comfortable welcoming her should make those who think Labour is an alternative in Scotland think twice. This only serves to emphasis the fact that the only real escape from the right wing fascists is to escape this toxic union. Don't think a vote for the SNP is a vote FOR them. It is a vote for freedom to choose a government more akin to the values most Scots hold dear.

You might want to look into that as there has been, already, more than a few raised eyebrows at this particular individual from the labour faithful. 

Don't let that spoil your slanted view though. 

[faraway saint]

37 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

 

The fact that Natalie Elphicke felt comfortable swapping benches and the red tories were more than comfortable welcoming her should make those who think Labour is an alternative in Scotland think twice. This only serves to emphasis the fact that the only real escape from the right wing fascists is to escape this toxic union. Don't think a vote for the SNP is a vote FOR them. It is a vote for freedom to choose a government more akin to the values most Scots hold dear.

 

Here's a snippet of the opposite from your made up post...................or as some would say, an out and out lie. 

LONDON — The defection of a Conservative MP to Labour provoked an outcry from women in her new party, angry at her previous defense of her sex offender ex-husband.

Natalie Elphicke, the MP for Dover and Deal since 2019, dramatically announced her defection to Labour on Wednesday just as Rishi Sunak was taking to his feet for prime minister’s questions.

However, Elphicke’s admission to the Labour Party has caused consternation among some of her new colleagues. Seven female Labour MPs, granted anonymity to speak frankly about sentiment inside the party, told POLITICO they were uncomfortable with her switch.

But a shadow minister said there was “a lot of unease” because “Natalie has said some abhorrent things and I’m not sure her values are those we should be aspiring to have in the party.”

Edited May 8 by faraway saint

[ALBIONSAINT]

Playing the victim right to the end. Do you mean racist bigots like the nursery owner in Dundee? “His heart will always belong to Scotland “ then why did you take the FM oath in Urdu while dressed in the national dress of Pakistan? 
Given that the SNP have now decided that there foray into the weird and wacky world of loony left policy is now over will they see a difference in the polls? 

[antrin]

1 hour ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Playing the victim right to the end. Do you mean racist bigots like the nursery owner in Dundee? “His heart will always belong to Scotland “ then why did you take the FM oath in Urdu while dressed in the national dress of Pakistan? 

 

aye….   Humza should have taken the FM oath in Gaelic while dressed in full Highland regalia, just like all preceding FM’s have done.

or is that me just being a bit of a mental fascist arsehole?

Edited May 9 by antrin

[portmahomack saint]

1 hour ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Playing the victim right to the end. Do you mean racist bigots like the nursery owner in Dundee? “His heart will always belong to Scotland “ then why did you take the FM oath in Urdu while dressed in the national dress of Pakistan? 
Given that the SNP have now decided that there foray into the weird and wacky world of loony left policy is now over will they see a difference in the polls? 

   I'm getting the impression you're really upset he's stepped down 

You'll just have to turn your vitriol posts now on Gentleman John Swinney now  

[bazil85]

On 5/7/2024 at 10:24 PM, ALBIONSAINT said:

 

Didn’t we have this discussion in 2014 and only 45% of the electorate thought it was a good idea? If the SNP want to change peoples beliefs about independence they have to show that the country could be well run and prosperous while they are in charge. They have had periods over the years where this has been evident, however not in the last 3-4 years. They will pay a harsh price for the Bute house agreement and letting the greens dictate the path of direction. 

In 2014 we were told, ‘vote no and’ 

- stay in the EU 

- don’t end up with declining living standards, much higher taxation, much higher debts, much higher deficits 

- protect the NHS & social care 

- protect services 

- protect the housing market & state pension. 
 

Absolutely every one of those promises was a lie & each area has deteriorated/ came to pass in Scotland, along with the rest of the UK despite us doing what we were told. 
 

Project fear was projection & we were sold an absolute dummy regarding the way we should vote. It was telling us what would happen if we voted no, not yes. 
 

In the last few years the SNP have released multiple, expert led papers on a new vision for Scotland as an independent nation. There are unanswered questions, of course. But that’s always going to be the case because there are factual points that the UK gov would need to negotiate & agree to, and they wouldn’t do that without a yes vote. It’s catch 22, people wanting information that can’t be provided. What I would say on that, any concern on unanswered questions, surely the last 10 Years have shown us there’s the same types of concerns by trusting the status quo? 
 

I feel devolution has become a safety blanket for a failing UK government. It’s easy to blame Labour & blame the SNP for the issues in Wales and Scotland. But people just need to look holistically to see the issues are largely not because of devolved governments. They are systemic across the UK. It’s a bit like a company failing and instead of blaming the BOD, people blame the team leaders on the front line. 

[ALBIONSAINT]

10 hours ago, bazil85 said:

In 2014 we were told, ‘vote no and’ 

- stay in the EU 

- don’t end up with declining living standards, much higher taxation, much higher debts, much higher deficits 

- protect the NHS & social care 

- protect services 

- protect the housing market & state pension. 
 

Absolutely every one of those promises was a lie & each area has deteriorated/ came to pass in Scotland, along with the rest of the UK despite us doing what we were told. 
 

Project fear was projection & we were sold an absolute dummy regarding the way we should vote. It was telling us what would happen if we voted no, not yes. 
 

In the last few years the SNP have released multiple, expert led papers on a new vision for Scotland as an independent nation. There are unanswered questions, of course. But that’s always going to be the case because there are factual points that the UK gov would need to negotiate & agree to, and they wouldn’t do that without a yes vote. It’s catch 22, people wanting information that can’t be provided. What I would say on that, any concern on unanswered questions, surely the last 10 Years have shown us there’s the same types of concerns by trusting the status quo? 
 

I feel devolution has become a safety blanket for a failing UK government. It’s easy to blame Labour & blame the SNP for the issues in Wales and Scotland. But people just need to look holistically to see the issues are largely not because of devolved governments. They are systemic across the UK. It’s a bit like a company failing and instead of blaming the BOD, people blame the team leaders on the front line. 

This is a fair and balanced post. You do make some very good points, however it’s about looking forward and how to build overwhelming support in the population for independence, I think the best way to achieve this is by proving that an SNP government can be trusted and be competent. This has been lacking in recent years. 

[ALBIONSAINT]

12 hours ago, portmahomack saint said:

   I'm getting the impression you're really upset he's stepped down 

You'll just have to turn your vitriol posts now on Gentleman John Swinney now  

I am very happy he is gone. He was a divisive race baiter 👍🏻
 

Edited May 9 by ALBIONSAINT

[ALBIONSAINT]

Can we expect thousands of middle class lefty’s taking to the streets of U.K. city’s this weekend to demonstrate for a ceasefire? I won’t hold my breath as there are no Jews involved. 

[bazil85]

10 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

This is a fair and balanced post. You do make some very good points, however it’s about looking forward and how to build overwhelming support in the population for independence, I think the best way to achieve this is by proving that an SNP government can be trusted and be competent. This has been lacking in recent years. 

Agreed, I think you summarise the nature of the beast. People want to be sold on independence by being impressed by the SNP & want them to demonstrate competence. 
 

It is a bit of a frustration for me (and others I’m sure) though as the SNP are not Scottish independence. I see them only as a vehicle. Post independence, let the democratic party voting system decide who leads the country and in what form. 
 

For me, I wish more people made up their mind on independence around the capability, resources and people of Scotland than the adequacy of the SNP. Get that’s not likely to happen in large numbers though. 

[antrin]

10 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Can we expect thousands of middle class lefty’s taking to the streets of U.K. city’s this weekend to demonstrate for a ceasefire? I won’t hold my breath as there are no Jews involved. 

You can breathe easy about streets being choked by middle-class protestors this weekend.

If the UK is involved in some way and if our government is aiding the murder of civilians, women children, then there would be more likelihood of UK citizens protesting.

As we are not complicit in any way, feel free to conjure up other things to worry about, needlessly.

[FTOF]

[stlucifer]

[shull]

17 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

I mind him and Henry in the minced morsels advert.

Brilliant