antrin Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Mrs May disnae get to be the one who decides. MPs will get the vote on when/if Article 50 ever gets signed. With luck, sense will prevail and the Tory party's stupid failed game with their party politics doesn't have to cause grief for all of the UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37857785 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted November 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 And... Another piece of positive propaganda on this front. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37852628 fwiw, I'm no a gung-ho Marketeer. I see many problems with it, problems that, if addressed, would make staying-in a no-brainer. But the current lack of any sane exit-planning fills me with despond. It's either that which does it... ..or it's all down to Saints' fitba results... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 BBC seems to feel most MPs will vote for the exit, however it is up to the electorate to let EVERY MP know what they think-and how safe their seat is once it is known how they voted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Well for personal and work reasons I need a strong pound, but the falling pound has boosted exports, helped money markets and made us show growth and as with Nissan further investment. I am a bit torn on this one....... I think its bad for Scotland...... either way. If we leave we get the SNPs ignoring governing us as demonstrated If we stay we get the instability of down south ignoring governing us..... Also what does it say about demorcracy? Referendums are just polls now, they are in effect not law abiding.... Its a bit like saying, have a vote and then we will have a vote on your vote. 600 odd MPs get to decide on 35m votes...... I am no EU fan however as you say Antrin the sheer lack of strategy is evident Makes me believe- it was never their intention to be put in this situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 And by the way Antrin- Good thread before some start grumbling again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Much as I welcome this decision, as a Scottish independence supporter, I wonder how I'd have felt had we had a Yes majority in IndyRef, only for parliament to veto it. Anyway, many in the govt will welcome this decision. It will allow them to fudge and deflect, and blame someone else (their lawyers and HC judges) for ongoing Brexit shambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 The referendum was never binding in law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 minute ago, Drew said: Much as I welcome this decision, as a Scottish independence supporter, I wonder how I'd have felt had we had a Yes majority in IndyRef, only for parliament to veto it. Anyway, many in the govt will welcome this decision. It will allow them to fudge and deflect, and blame someone else (their lawyers and HC judges) for ongoing Brexit shambles. Mate, I also voted Yes but now I am firmly No and I am not alone...... Heres why------ I don't like Westminster, I don't trust them, Tories or whatever.... But I also don't trust the SNPs...... what a chance they have missed..... They have screwed up EU payments to Farmers, Colleges and important Medical Development grants. They have sent 56 MPs to be just a wee noise in the corner Sturgeon is so single minded on Indy, she has forgotten why she is empowered as First Minister, she is there to govern Scotland not just exit us from UK... At a time when Lab is in freefall we need leaders and support Students Grants are 4 months behind, Farmers are having to sell up, these all impact Scotland massively. So just shows that people vote on what they see, and I never voted for Scotland to be ignored by a Scottish gov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, beyond our ken said: The referendum was never binding in law. Well the High Court have just decided that, so it was in question obviously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, DougJamie said: Mate, I also voted Yes but now I am firmly No and I am not alone...... Heres why------ I don't like Westminster, I don't trust them, Tories or whatever.... But I also don't trust the SNPs...... what a chance they have missed..... They have screwed up EU payments to Farmers, Colleges and important Medical Development grants. They have sent 56 MPs to be just a wee noise in the corner Sturgeon is so single minded on Indy, she has forgotten why she is empowered as First Minister, she is there to govern Scotland not just exit us from UK... At a time when Lab is in freefall we need leaders and support Students Grants are 4 months behind, Farmers are having to sell up, these all impact Scotland massively. So just shows that people vote on what they see, and I never voted for Scotland to be ignored by a Scottish gov Fair enough, but I wasn't looking to prompt a debate on the merits or otherwise of independence or the SNP. There are no doubt other threads for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurich_allan Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 This is going to be very interesting. Do the main political parties declare this a constituency issue or a party political one to which they will apply the whip? Huge can of worms opened here and a large number of MPs are now in a 'no win' situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Excellent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 56 minutes ago, zurich_allan said: This is going to be very interesting. Do the main political parties declare this a constituency issue or a party political one to which they will apply the whip? Huge can of worms opened here and a large number of MPs are now in a 'no win' situation. Its not really that exciting. It just shows up the whole Nation as morons........ led by headless chickens..... On the plus side, if we stay in EU, Sturgeon will have to change her monotone record Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 This is going to be very interesting. Do the main political parties declare this a constituency issue or a party political one to which they will apply the whip? Huge can of worms opened here and a large number of MPs are now in a 'no win' situation. It doesn't seem to matter to labour MP's when it comes to the party whip. Having said that, I can see a few dozen Tories defying the party whip either way!The government were trying to use medieval protocols to get round parliament having to debate this.It needs to be debated in parliament, after all we keep hearing that Westminster should be sovereign... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 I was listening to a report on the BBC where good old Boris was giving a dinner speech saying Brexit means Brexit and we will make a Titanic job of it. George Osborne was heard say in the background The Titanic sank . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 The great thing about this is I believe it will eventually bring about a General Election where each party needs to put forward their strategy on Brexit. This will get us a properly elected Prime Minister with a mandate on how to take us out. At present we have a PM who wasn't elected and backed remain negotiating our exit. The same PM doesn't want to consult parliament and wants to impose her negotiated Brexit deal on the country. Incredible when she wasn't elected and backed remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Imagine having a referendum and not honouring the result? Only a buckled socialist could have such disregard for the will of the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsidebud Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 So - let me get this right... Brexit DOESN'T mean Brexit ?? ????[emoji3] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 The great thing about this is I believe it will eventually bring about a General Election where each party needs to put forward their strategy on Brexit. This will get us a properly elected Prime Minister with a mandate on how to take us out. At present we have a PM who wasn't elected and backed remain negotiating our exit. The same PM doesn't want to consult parliament and wants to impose her negotiated Brexit deal on the country. Incredible when she wasn't elected and backed remain. If an election comes soon I can see Labour having as many MPs as the greens with a much larger Tory majority. That would be good for Scotland in our next independence vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said: Imagine having a referendum and not honouring the result? Only a buckled socialist could have such disregard for the will of the majority. She doesn't seem like a socialist to me. As ever Europe is an issue which causes most trouble for the Conservative Party with it's free marketeers and Little Englanders - EXCELLENT! http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/who-is-gina-miller-businesswoman-won-appeal-against-government-triggering-article-50/ar-AAjQNxc?OCID=ansmsnnews11. Edited November 3, 2016 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Who isn't honouring the result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Kendo said: The great thing about this is I believe it will eventually bring about a General Election where each party needs to put forward their strategy on Brexit. This will get us a properly elected Prime Minister with a mandate on how to take us out. At present we have a PM who wasn't elected and backed remain negotiating our exit. The same PM doesn't want to consult parliament and wants to impose her negotiated Brexit deal on the country. Incredible when she wasn't elected and backed remain. We have a rightful and proper Prime Minister. At a General Election we vote for MP's not a Prime Minister. Whichever Political Party wins the Election, can then choose whoever they want as leader of the Country. I miss Margaret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 7 hours ago, antrin said: Mrs May disnae get to be the one who decides. MPs will get the vote on when/if Article 50 ever gets signed. With luck, sense will prevail and the Tory party's stupid failed game with their party politics doesn't have to cause grief for all of the UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37857785 . The tithe topic title is correct. It's not the PM's choice, it's the people's choice and they voted to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurich_allan Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 When the referendum was created, they really should have put more thought into the issue. There are so many arguments and counter-arguments about the result.On one hand, the brexit side 'won' the vote.But on the other, by creating it as such a binary issue, a brexit result also disenfranchises a large number of the population.In addition, there is still the argument that although a majority in terms of the vote wanted to leave, in real terms it's less than 40% of the actual voting population.Then there's the problem that Scotland and Northern Ireland voted remain, whereas England voted to leave. Ironically, to have made the issue final and avoid any disputes like this, the Government SHOULD have set it out like the vast majority of EU votes are, because it's a fairer all round system.In their qualified majority voting system, an issue can only be passed if:55% of member states vote in favour - representing at least 65% of the total EU populationFor the UK they could have set the qualified majority as being that Brexit could only happen if, for example, 3 out of 4 of the countries that comprise the UK voted for it, with the number of votes representing at least 50% of the population.It's not rocket science, and would have nipped in the bud all of the arguments that are currently being made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 The tithe topic title is correct. It's not the PM's choice, it's the people's choice and they voted to leave. Yes, however constitutionally the matter needs to go through parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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