Brexit vs (another) referendum

[antrin]

3 hours ago, salmonbuddie said:

 

My mistake.

Are you saying that "English press" is synonymous with "everyone in England" then? Do you think the people on this forum aren't sophisticated or smart enough to know there's a huge difference between the two?

 

You know that I'm not saying that... I KNOW that it isn't.

But that is the allusion tpafkats made, in my opinion, as noted in my response, above, to him.

And you, yourself, answer the question about the lack of sophistication and smarts on here...

"some people don't get beyond the headline".

[antrin]

3 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

 

Ahhh gie it a rest baldie

 

I get daft questions - I helpfully answer them.

 

[salmonbuddie]

That was oaky, the exception proving the rule...



I don't think it is an allusion, or even a conflation, of the two, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

[beyond our ken]

13 hours ago, insaintee said:

Only a judge can over rule a parent.  The question is who is going to take such a request to the judge. 

Doctor

law enforcement officer

nurse

social worker

foster parent

they all have channels that they currently operate through which can lead to a case being considered by a judge, the named person is intended to be someone who is in contact with all or any of the above and more and co-ordinate responses, they are really there to get the best outcome for the child and that often means considering how things can be handles without invoking the presence of a judge.  The NP themselves only make decisions about where things should be referred to and when.  I doubt that anyone would argue against the fact that there are parents and guardians who are either incapable of or unwilling to act in a child's best interests.  If a parent is doing a good job and getting the best out of the services available then they are unlikely to be overruled, they can, however go to a named person for help if they are struggling or have concerns about any other person already involved in the care of the child

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Well... You?
YOU highlighted the nationality of the author of the piece and/or the location in which it is published.
otherwise... if you didn't believe it to be representative of a specific PoV.... Why did you mention it?
you could have said the long-haired lady persons, but you said English.
 
 

My mistake.

Are you saying that "English press" is synonymous with "everyone in England" then? Do you think the people on this forum aren't sophisticated or smart enough to know there's a huge difference between the two?

You know that I'm not saying that... I KNOW that it isn't.
But that is the allusion tpafkats made, in my opinion, as noted in my response, above, to him.
And you, yourself, answer the question about the lack of sophistication and smarts on here...
"some people don't get beyond the headline".

Are you seriously suggesting that by highlighting the behaviour of the English press to the FM's announcement I was alluding to all English persons, or that posters on here would think that I was meaning that because they are a bit thick.
FFS, Has your account been hacked?

[antrin]

Why else even mention the nationality?

Not all journalists are English. It is a National newspaper in terms of the UK.  It is a British newspaper.

If Andrew Marr or Andrew brillo-pad-heid Neil fae Paisley - both of the BBC and both prone to write for newspapers, too... if they had written the article in question, would you have posted it with the comment, "English press keeping it classy early doors"?  The author's nationality is irrelevant.

 

Or would you have said, "Scottish press keeping it classy early doors"?  The Nationality in your comment adds nothing - other than a racist attribution - to something you patently dislike.

I guess I'm fed up with comments from a closed mindset, that refuses to grasp that Londoners - who also voted to Remain, in numbers greater than the total of Scots who voted, both ways - are also unhappy, but they are not constantly blaming it on the English.  You are not alone in disliking Brexit.  There are a lot of us.

 

And I also remember that about a million Scots also voted for Brexit.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by antrin

[salmonbuddie]

Please get away from this fixation you have that we blame the English. We blame the WM system, sometimes abbreviated to WM, sometimes to London. Erroneous? Yes. Worth getting upset about? No more than foreigners (and the English - yes them) conflating Brotish and English.

And given that the vast majority in Scotland voted Remain then who else can we blame for Brexit but the largest part of this dis-united kingdom. The Welsh, perhaps?

[DougJamie]

4 minutes ago, salmonbuddie said:

Please get away from this fixation you have that we blame the English. We blame the WM system, sometimes abbreviated to WM, sometimes to London. Erroneous? Yes. Worth getting upset about? No more than foreigners (and the English - yes them) conflating Brotish and English.

And given that the vast majority in Scotland voted Remain then who else can we blame for Brexit but the largest part of this dis-united kingdom. The Welsh, perhaps?

 

Don't you dare-------------------Sir Tom Rocks

Edited March 17, 2017 by DougJamie

[mcdowell76]

2 hours ago, antrin said:

And I also remember that about a million Scots also voted for Brexit.

 

 

More Scots voted for Scotland to leave the EU than voted for the SNP in the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections on the list vote...

The SNP and the Greens won less than half the vote on a turnout of 55.6% for the Scottish Parliament elections.

And Sturgeon thinks this is a basis to call another referendum?

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by mcdowell76

[Bud the Baker]

5 minutes ago, mcdowell76 said:

More Scots voted for Scotland to leave the EU than voted for the SNP in the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections on the list vote...

The SNP and the Greens won less than half the vote on a turnout of 55.6% for the Scottish Parliament elections.

And Sturgeon thinks this is a basis to call another referendum?

 

Why are you worried then - get it done, beat us and then smirk as we fade into insignificance.

[salmonbuddie]

More Scots voted for Scotland to leave the EU than voted for the SNP in the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections on the list vote...
The SNP and the Greens won less than half the vote on a turnout of 55.6% for the Scottish Parliament elections.
And Sturgeon thinks this is a basis to call another referendum?
 

Two things:

How does our parliamentary system work, again?

How do those figures compare to the party at WM that held the EU referendum?

[Bud the Baker]

18 minutes ago, salmonbuddie said:

 

 

Two things:

How does our parliamentary system work, again?

How do those figures compare to the party at WM that held the EU referendum?

 

Yeah, comparing apples to oranges has always been one of The Captain's specialities.

[Kendo]

The Tories are going to negotiate a Brexit deal on our behalf and we don't get a chance to vote on their deal. If the Tories get us a great deal we would vote overwhelmingly to stay in the UK. Why don't the Tories trust the Scottish people to have a say in this? 

Imagine Brussels refusing the U.K. to have a referendum. All Nicola Sturgeon is doing is delivering a manifesto pledge, something the the Tories completely forgot about at the last budget. If they cannot get a budget correct God help us in the Brexit negotiations.

Lastly Nicola won the election as leader setting out her plans to lead the country. Theresa May didn't win any election as leader so for her to deny Scotland its democratic right is plain wrong. I'm not sure if I'd vote yes or no, however I would like my government to be able to ask the question.

[faraway saint]

4 minutes ago, Kendo said:

The Tories are going to negotiate a Brexit deal on our behalf and we don't get a chance to vote on their deal. If the Tories get us a great deal we would vote overwhelmingly to stay in the UK. Why don't the Tories trust the Scottish people to have a say in this? 

Imagine Brussels refusing the U.K. to have a referendum. All Nicola Sturgeon is doing is delivering a manifesto pledge, something the the Tories completely forgot about at the last budget. If they cannot get a budget correct God help us in the Brexit negotiations.

Lastly Nicola won the election as leader setting out her plans to lead the country. Theresa May didn't win any election as leader so for her to deny Scotland its democratic right is plain wrong. I'm not sure if I'd vote yes or no, however I would like my government to be able to ask the question.

Totally irrelevant as it's Mrs Mays position that allows her to make the decision she has made.

[Kendo]

22 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Totally irrelevant as it's Mrs Mays position that allows her to make the decision she has made.

Spot on and treating the Scottish government as irrelevant is a very dangerous position to take.

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, Kendo said:

Spot on and treating the Scottish government as irrelevant is a very dangerous position to take.

You should be in the FFS thread.

[oaksoft]

On 3/16/2017 at 3:45 PM, faraway saint said:

Where, exactly, do you want to live as I don't believe there is anywhere that would live up to your expectations?

You are confusing a place and the people who inhabit that place.

The society then are the inhabitants and not the location.

It saddens me to have to explain that.

[antrin]

1 hour ago, salmonbuddie said:

Please get away from this fixation you have that we blame the English. We blame the WM system, sometimes abbreviated to WM, sometimes to London. Erroneous? Yes. Worth getting upset about? No more than foreigners (and the English - yes them) conflating Brotish and English.

And given that the vast majority? in Scotland voted Remain then who else can we blame for Brexit but the largest part of this dis-united kingdom. The Welsh, perhaps?

I quite agree.

And I hope that TPAFKATS reads your message to him and heeds your suggestion.

Perhaps to help general understanding of why it is not apposite to blame the English for all of Scotland's ills and also to not lump all English people into the same bag, I should have suggested that if our National press is to be lambasted, then it is hardly through solely English ownership that it ruffles some people's feathers.

There's Lord Rothermere and the so-called weird Barclay Brothers all offshore tax avoiders, as is erstwhile Aussie Murdoch and his family, then there's Richard Desmond a brit who actually lives here! and he owns the Express and Star.

These are people who, in the main, do not reside in the country, but they hold inordinate sway over policies that effect us all.    I think they are pretty good enough at dividing and conquering us without us aiding and abetting.

 

 

[faraway saint]

Just now, oaksoft said:

You are confusing a place and the people who inhabit that place.

The society then are the inhabitants and not the location.

It saddens me to have to explain that.

Oh dear.

It saddens me that you still hang about the forum as you spend half your time "having to explain" things.

Maybe you should be more precise in your posts then you wouldn't have to explain things?

[Kendo]

2 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

You should be in the FFS thread.

You should be in Saudi. 

[oaksoft]

22 hours ago, Drew said:

Really? I think you might be mixing up your legislation. Even then, what you are suggesting is incorrect.

Drew, Here are details from the government's website. I have highlighted in red the bits I have a problem with.

The point is that although the Named Person doesn't have to be listened to by the parent, they directly cause other people to become involved who the parents CANNOT ignore such as social services or the police.

This should not be done unless there is clearly a problem and we already have legislation to cover this which is not being implemented properly.

I do not trust any official body or person when it comes to looking after the welfare of my child or any other child because they have shown themselves utterly incapable of doing so up to now. The NP legislation allows unwarranted access to the personal details of people who are not part of the problem of abuse and neglect of children in the first place so who on earth is this going to help? It's bollox.

Oh and FFS can you and others stop equating criticism of this ridiculous legislation with tacit support of child abuse and neglect. That sort of intellectual bankruptcy does you no favours.

 

 

 

What will a Named Person do?

A Named Person will be available to listen, advise and help a child or young person and their parent(s), provide direct support or help them access other services.  For example, a health visitor might ask for help from a speech and language therapist, or a guidance teacher may put parents in touch with a local bereavement counselling service.

They will also be a point of contact for other services if they have any concerns about a child’s or young person's wellbeing.

What happens when help is asked for or a concern is raised?

When the child or young person, their parent(s), or someone who works with them asks for help or raises a concern, a Named Person will carefully consider the situation by asking five questions:

1. What is getting in the way of this child’s or young person’s wellbeing?

2. Do I have all the information I need to help this child or young person?

3. What can I do now to help this child or young person?

4. What can my agency do to help this child or young person?

5. What additional help, if any, may be needed from others?

The Named Person will discuss this with the child or young person and their parents, and where appropriate, with other professionals, to get the help the child, young person or parents need.

They will then support the child, young person and their parents to access appropriate help. Each situation will be unique to the child or young person, and the way they are supported will be tailored to their individual needs.

A Named Person will only offer advice or support in response to a request from a child or parent, or when a wellbeing need is identified. They can help a child, young person or their parent(s) address their concerns early and in some cases avoid bigger concerns or problems developing.

There is no obligation to accept the offer of advice or support from a Named Person.

Who will provide and support Named Persons?

Local authorities and health boards are the main organisations that have a duty to make sure a Named Person is available to children and young people wherever they live or learn. They will make sure children, young people and parents know about their local Named Person service and what it means for them.

Other organisations, like independent or grant-aided schools, secure accommodation services and the Scottish Prison Service (for the small number of young people held in custody), have a duty to make sure a Named Person is available to the children and young people in their care.

Information about a child’s needs, specific circumstances and the help they have already received may be shared with a Named Person and other services if asked to provide additional support.

The child or young person and parent(s) will know what information is being shared, with whom and for what purpose, and their views will be taken into account. This may not happen in exceptional cases, such as where there is a concern for the safety of a child or someone else.

The Act and supporting guidance sets out a clear set of steps for practitioners to follow to make sure the right information is shared at the right time, so that the right help is offered to support the wellbeing of the child or young person.

Edited March 17, 2017 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

13 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Oh dear.

It saddens me that you still hang about the forum as you spend half your time "having to explain" things.

Maybe you should be more precise in your posts then you wouldn't have to explain things?

Follow your own advice that you were happy to shovel onto others. Either ignore or scroll.

It saddens me to have to........

You can finish the above sentence for yourself.

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, mcdowell76 said:

More Scots voted for Scotland to leave the EU than voted for the SNP in the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections on the list vote...

The SNP and the Greens won less than half the vote on a turnout of 55.6% for the Scottish Parliament elections.

And Sturgeon thinks this is a basis to call another referendum?

 

You should be jailed for abuse of statistics.

You cannot compare results for two completely different bases without taking the context of both into account (or normalising the sets of results with respect to each other).

You may THINK you can compare two numbers like that but you would be incorrect to do so.

Don't worry, you are not alone. The country is full of people who don't understand this.

Away back to school.

Edited March 17, 2017 by oaksoft

[faraway saint]

5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Follow your own advice that you were happy to shovel onto others. Either ignore or scroll.

It saddens me to have to........spout unequivocal shite

You can finish the above sentence for yourself.

Do I win a prize?

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, salmonbuddie said:

And given that the vast majority in Scotland voted Remain then who else can we blame for Brexit but the largest part of this dis-united kingdom. The Welsh, perhaps?

No they didn't bud and talking like this doesn't help move anything along.

62 to 38 is not a VAST majority - it's a very clear majority but calling it VAST is ridiculous especially in the context of such huge numbers not voting at all.

You are over-selling.