Guaranteed Starting Place

[St.Ricky]

More than a few mentions have been made on social media, including the forum to players who cannot be guaranteed starting places.  I thought,  perhaps naively,  that the whole basis on which clubs work is that there is competition for places and within that a structure where players are given recognition and reward for being in the First Team Squad.  Given that,  each managers seeks to recruit in such a way as to ensure that they have both competition and cover for places in the match day squad and team.  I am not aware of any club where the manager operates with a team of 11 who are guaranteed placs each week.  Am I wrong in the basis for my argument that Alan Stubbs,  like other managers clearly state that no one is guaranteed a starting place? Why then would it be controversial for him to say so? 

[Hambud]

More than a few mentions have been made on social media, including the forum to players who cannot be guaranteed starting places.  I thought,  perhaps naively,  that the whole basis on which clubs work is that there is competition for places and within that a structure where players are given recognition and reward for being in the First Team Squad.  Given that,  each managers seeks to recruit in such a way as to ensure that they have both competition and cover for places in the match day squad and team.  I am not aware of any club where the manager operates with a team of 11 who are guaranteed placs each week.  Am I wrong in the basis for my argument that Alan Stubbs,  like other managers clearly state that no one is guaranteed a starting place? Why then would it be controversial for him to say so? 

It's not controversial for him to say it.

What is controversial is that he appears to be approaching everything like a bull in a China shop. Though he might not be it could just be being blown out of all proportion by a few ITK people with influence.

W need to remember that we have all seen club legends dropped or frozen out for various reasons. We were all gutted (apart from Shull) when Gus didn't renew Ricky Gillies contract. We were all inconsolable when he allowed Basher to leave we were up in arms when he dropped Shuggie Murray.

We got over the Ricky Gillies thing when he signed Charlie Adam, Mixu Pattelinan/John Sutton helped us forget Basher and Shuggie used being dropped as a motivation to work harder in training and push himself harder to get back in the team as a better player.

Stubbs maybe hopes that the tough love approach means the guys he's got just now do a Shuggie and work harder to try and impress him. On the face of it, it doesn't look like it is working and they are throwing huff after huff with snippets of information being leaked to fans.

What he needs to be able to do is pull a Sutton or a Charlie Adam out his sleave to help shut the fans up or he is going to be find himself potentially losing out to player power.

My worry is that the longer it goes on the more it looks like him having no plan.

However the older ones of us will remember having seen this all before.

[stlucifer]

3 hours ago, Hambud said:

It's not controversial for him to say it.

What is controversial is that he appears to be approaching everything like a bull in a China shop. Though he might not be it could just be being blown out of all proportion by a few ITK people with influence.

W need to remember that we have all seen club legends dropped or frozen out for various reasons. We were all gutted (apart from Shull) when Gus didn't renew Ricky Gillies contract. We were all inconsolable when he allowed Basher to leave we were up in arms when he dropped Shuggie Murray.

We got over the Ricky Gillies thing when he signed Charlie Adam, Mixu Pattelinan/John Sutton helped us forget Basher and Shuggie used being dropped as a motivation to work harder in training and push himself harder to get back in the team as a better player.

Stubbs maybe hopes that the tough love approach means the guys he's got just now do a Shuggie and work harder to try and impress him. On the face of it, it doesn't look like it is working and they are throwing huff after huff with snippets of information being leaked to fans.

What he needs to be able to do is pull a Sutton or a Charlie Adam out his sleave to help shut the fans up or he is going to be find himself potentially losing out to player power.

My worry is that the longer it goes on the more it looks like him having no plan.

However the older ones of us will remember having seen this all before.

You don't have to be old to remember Tommy Craig or Ian Murray. That's what this looks like.

[St.Ricky]

27 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

You don't have to be old to remember Tommy Craig or Ian Murray. That's what this looks like.

Truth in that St Lucy but the manager, well... manages. 

Players have input but he makes the decisions. 

No player should be able to be guaranteed a starting place or to play in their preferred position because they want to. 

That way lies anarchy and as evidence TC and IM experiences

Saying OK son all of the time doesn't work. 

[Cornwall_Saint]

Stubbs did say his plan was to have competition for every place in the squad.

Undortunately, so far it's coming down to who has been less pish getting their place instead of who has been on their game.

[Hambud]

You don't have to be old to remember Tommy Craig or Ian Murray. That's what this looks like.

You don't you are right, but I do also remember 2008/9 season.

We had amassed 4 points by the 5th of October.

We couldn't buy a goal. We were rank rotton and heading to Love Street for our final game there against the team formerly known as Rangers. They were quite a good team at the time , managed by Walter Smith and probably paying people with EBT's. We were going to get humped.

I remember thinking we'd ridden our luck for the last couple of seasons in the top league but now it was coming to an end. Went to the game thinking typical St Mirren going to get our New Stadium but be relegated straight after we move there. The forums were awash with Gus must go type posts.

Up stepped Stephen McGinn who lashed home that 40 yarder, earning himself the nick name "Top bin McGinn", and that kickstarted our season.

We moved stadium, reached a semi final and finished not too badly considering our horrendous start.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

Guaranteed starting places... for the loanees if the terms of the loans specify they have to play when fit or we are penalised financially.

[oaksoft]

35 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Guaranteed starting places... for the loanees if the terms of the loans specify they have to play when fit or we are penalised financially.

Do you have ANY evidence of this or are you throwing more shit hoping for something to stick?

[Dibbles old paperboy]

Stubbs sounding like he's open to Cammy Smith going and definitely not sounding like he rates Cammy as a player we should be trying to hang on to:

"Stubbs was inconclusive when asked whether Smith was free to leave.

He said: “I don’t know, no. At the moment, no. You know what football is like, anything can change. But as far as I am standing here now, what I have got is what I have got.

“If something happens over the weekend or next week and we feel as if it’s for the benefit of the football club and makes us stronger, then it might be something that we look at.”

Never mind, if Smith moves on we might see more of Jeff King, Cody Cooke or Kenny Miller (if he signs on the dotted line).

I'm beginning to miss the balance, poise, and lucidity in Danny Lennon's interviews.

[stlucifer]

6 hours ago, Hambud said:

You don't you are right, but I do also remember 2008/9 season.

We had amassed 4 points by the 5th of October.

We couldn't buy a goal. We were rank rotton and heading to Love Street for our final game there against the team formerly known as Rangers. They were quite a good team at the time , managed by Walter Smith and probably paying people with EBT's. We were going to get humped.

I remember thinking we'd ridden our luck for the last couple of seasons in the top league but now it was coming to an end. Went to the game thinking typical St Mirren going to get our New Stadium but be relegated straight after we move there. The forums were awash with Gus must go type posts.

Up stepped Stephen McGinn who lashed home that 40 yarder, earning himself the nick name "Top bin McGinn", and that kickstarted our season.

We moved stadium, reached a semi final and finished not too badly considering our horrendous start.



 

Except that the last game at Love Street was a borefest 0-0 v Motherwell on a cold January afternoon

Edited August 27, 2018 by stlucifer

[stlucifer]

7 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

Truth in that St Lucy but the manager, well... manages. 

Players have input but he makes the decisions. 

No player should be able to be guaranteed a starting place or to play in their preferred position because they want to. 

That way lies anarchy and as evidence TC and IM experiences

Saying OK son all of the time doesn't work. 

Admit it.

 

You're still p!shed.

[Hambud]

Except that the last game at Love Street was a borefest 0-0 v Motherwell on a cold January afternoon

It was the last time we played Rangers there.

[Ayrshire Saints]

I doubt any of our players would expect to be an automatic pick. I also doubt any would contemplate a move away based on that supposition unless  they were a real fringe player. If Smith does move I would think it would be solely Stubbs decision with the guaranteed starting place cliche being used as an excuse but there is a huge amount of supposition at this stage. There would need to be some exceptional players coming in to justify it but even then Smith would surely compliment such players. All very bizarre !

[St.Ricky]

1 hour ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

I doubt any of our players would expect to be an automatic pick. I also doubt any would contemplate a move away based on that supposition unless  they were a real fringe player. If Smith does move I would think it would be solely Stubbs decision with the guaranteed starting place cliche being used as an excuse but there is a huge amount of supposition at this stage. There would need to be some exceptional players coming in to justify it but even then Smith would surely compliment such players. All very bizarre !

Sensible post Ayrshire.  The briefing that is going on around the club reminds me of the cabinet within the present government recently.  

Time to unite behind the manager... But not with knives in hand ready to stab him in the back. 

Tough time to be involved with the club.  Had them before.  Will have them again. 

The manager picks the players,  he decides who comes and who goes. 

[Dave The Buddie]

Stubbs sounding like he's open to Cammy Smith going and definitely not sounding like he rates Cammy as a player we should be trying to hang on to:
"Stubbs was inconclusive when asked whether Smith was free to leave.

He said: “I don’t know, no. At the moment, no. You know what football is like, anything can change. But as far as I am standing here now, what I have got is what I have got.

“If something happens over the weekend or next week and we feel as if it’s for the benefit of the football club and makes us stronger, then it might be something that we look at.”

Never mind, if Smith moves on we might see more of Jeff King, Cody Cooke or Kenny Miller (if he signs on the dotted line).

I'm beginning to miss the balance, poise, and lucidity in Danny Lennon's interviews.

Smith is our best player. Worrying times if he has been told he can leave.

[billyg]

4 minutes ago, Dave The Buddie said:

 

 

Smith is our best player. Worrying times if he has been told he can leave.

 

Sunderland ? I'm sure JR will have a passing interest if he's allowed to leave , he's still young enough to progress. If Stubbs allows him out the door he has to be held to account by GLS !

[DougJamie]

15 hours ago, stlucifer said:

You don't have to be old to remember Tommy Craig or Ian Murray. That's what this looks like.

It looks far worse. Those two managers were under the old want out BOD. Stubbs is off back of success. Thats the issue. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by DougJamie

[St.Ricky]

3 hours ago, DougJamie said:

It looks far worse. Those two managers were under the old want out BOD. Stubbs is off back of success. Thats the issue. 

DJ. You have followed Saints long enough to know that one trick we have yet to master is to follow up a successful season with another.  Staying up in the Premiershipwould qualify as a success.  Most of the Saint's fans I have spoken to felt that last year's Championship Winning squad was not up to staying in the Premiership.  So far,  most of us are on the same page.  New manager,  new players and new competition for places shakes things up.  Established players are under pressure.  Tough all around but that's where we are.  Players need to play for their place every week.  A few wins would change the mood all around.