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The Original 59er

For Once I agree with Mike Ashley

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Mike Ashley has told MP's that something has to be done with online retailers to help the High Street.

Basically he has said that unless some form of Tax is brought in to hit the  online retailer, the High Street as we know it, will be dead within 12 years.

Given that you most probably have money tied up in the property market -  and more of us do than you might think, through your pension plan, you should be really concerned at the savage changes that are being seen in the existing High Streets, the Shopping Centres and Retail Parks around the country.

He talks with the knowledge of someone who has an online retail business, but at the same time he has put his money where his mouth is and has bought into House of Fraser and other retail concerns. So at least he is speaking with a modicum of understanding of the business model and if he is now saying that the Amazon model needs to be seriously tackled, he should be listened to.

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1 minute ago, The Original 59er said:

Mike Ashley has told MP's that something has to be done with online retailers to help the High Street.

Basically he has said that unless some form of Tax is brought in to hit the  online retailer, the High Street as we know it, will be dead within 12 years.

Given that you most probably have money tied up in the property market -  and more of us do than you might think, through your pension plan, you should be really concerned at the savage changes that are being seen in the existing High Streets, the Shopping Centres and Retail Parks around the country.

He talks with the knowledge of someone who has an online retail business, but at the same time he has put his money where his mouth is and has bought into House of Fraser and other retail concerns. So at least he is speaking with a modicum of understanding of the business model and if he is now saying that the Amazon model needs to be seriously tackled, he should be listened to.

The High Street is dead and it is not coming back in its current form.

Pension firms can invest elsewhere at the drop of a hat and quite frankly anyone investing in retail right now needs their financial credentials checked.

Everything is moving online because virtually everyone wants that.

The future for town centres is low cost accomodation for young people with supporting entertainment facilities.

Just needs the right combination of people with enough money and vision to make it happen. Everywhere else is going to be left behind.

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46 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

The High Street is dead and it is not coming back in its current form.

Pension firms can invest elsewhere at the drop of a hat and quite frankly anyone investing in retail right now needs their financial credentials checked.

Everything is moving online because virtually everyone wants that.

The future for town centres is low cost accomodation for young people with supporting entertainment facilities.

Just needs the right combination of people with enough money and vision to make it happen. Everywhere else is going to be left behind.

Not entirely true but it's commonly agreed their has to be changes to the traditional High Street model.

Ashley has a point that the rates evaluations were set long before the meteoric rise in online retails giants, damaging the efforts of many outlets in the High Street. 

I'm not quite sure it's fare taxing the online retailers BECAUSE they have been successful, I believe looking at the rates system would prove more fruitful.

I do agree the High Street has to change and become more of a social/entertainment centre but can easily be mixed with retail establishments. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46427918

 

Edited by faraway saint

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59 minutes ago, The Original 59er said:

Mike Ashley has told MP's that something has to be done with online retailers to help the High Street.

Basically he has said that unless some form of Tax is brought in to hit the  online retailer, the High Street as we know it, will be dead within 12 years.

Given that you most probably have money tied up in the property market -  and more of us do than you might think, through your pension plan, you should be really concerned at the savage changes that are being seen in the existing High Streets, the Shopping Centres and Retail Parks around the country.

He talks with the knowledge of someone who has an online retail business, but at the same time he has put his money where his mouth is and has bought into House of Fraser and other retail concerns. So at least he is speaking with a modicum of understanding of the business model and if he is now saying that the Amazon model needs to be seriously tackled, he should be listened to.

I always aim to buy locally whenever l can , apart from seeing what you get and face to face interaction , you are helping the local economy . I can think of a couple of retailers in Paisley however who could do some basic stuff to sell more kit . If you go to America and walk into a shop , they really want to sell you something and their merchandising is top notch .

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7 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said:

I always aim to buy locally whenever l can , apart from seeing what you get and face to face interaction , you are helping the local economy . I can think of a couple of retailers in Paisley however who could do some basic stuff to sell more kit . If you go to America and walk into a shop , they really want to sell you something and their merchandising is top notch .

Same here but it's been a problem locally here that people have chosen to travel to Dundee rather than support local business.

It's a good point that local business's need to realise they are there to provide a service and people are less likely to support if the product is not up to standard.

A bit like SMTV. 

Edited by faraway saint

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Time moves on and things change. Not all progress is good but you can't stand in the way.

How much did the big retailers that moved into brand new stores in Braehead or Silverburn worry about the damage they were causing to the retailers in Paisley town centre ?

Adapt or die.

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22 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Time moves on and things change. Not all progress is good but you can't stand in the way.

How much did the big retailers that moved into brand new stores in Braehead or Silverburn worry about the damage they were causing to the retailers in Paisley town centre ?

Adapt or die.

The fact that there was no free parking in Paisley was a major bonus for Braehead when it did open .  Again, in America,  they just assume that everyone is going to arrive by car and they cater for that 

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Got to say I was impressed with the High Street in Paisley this weekend. Lots of stuff going on and opportunities for local shops to get involved. One shop in particular has relocated to the High Street from St Mirren Street and I wish them all the best. I was very impressed with the town on my wee visit

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19 hours ago, The Original 59er said:

Mike Ashley has told MP's that something has to be done with online retailers to help the High Street.

Basically he has said that unless some form of Tax is brought in to hit the  online retailer, the High Street as we know it, will be dead within 12 years.

Given that you most probably have money tied up in the property market -  and more of us do than you might think, through your pension plan, you should be really concerned at the savage changes that are being seen in the existing High Streets, the Shopping Centres and Retail Parks around the country.

He talks with the knowledge of someone who has an online retail business, but at the same time he has put his money where his mouth is and has bought into House of Fraser and other retail concerns. So at least he is speaking with a modicum of understanding of the business model and if he is now saying that the Amazon model needs to be seriously tackled, he should be listened to.

Surely its all about supply and demand. The internet was always going to kill retail. Simply put , retail is dying, we have countless shops still ripping people off.

We have a severe housing problem in this country, mainly in the inner cities. So , let these businesses go bust and then the council can collect rent from affordable housing .

 

Paisley High Street is the perfect example of what retail is- a bombsite 

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7 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

My wife went shopping to Paisley on Monday. She came back very impressed talking about the carousel, Ice rink, and wee huts selling food and drink. She came back with three large bags stuffed with Christmas presents.  

Unfortunately "novelties" like the things you describe won't help.

Major changes required but things can improve if "the powers that be" make it happen.

 

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44 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Surely its all about supply and demand. The internet was always going to kill retail. Simply put , retail is dying, we have countless shops still ripping people off.

We have a severe housing problem in this country, mainly in the inner cities. So , let these businesses go bust and then the council can collect rent from affordable housing .

 

Paisley High Street is the perfect example of what retail is- a bombsite 

A complicated problem.  Not one single solution.  Tax online companies more effectively?  Agree.  Shift the balance to reintroduce more housing?  Yes.  Alter the rates structure?  Perhaps.  Retail space has evolved in my lifetime but now needs to move into a period of rapid change.  That's down to the retailers to make themselves attractive in terms of space,  stock, service and prices.  

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2 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

A complicated problem.  Not one single solution.  Tax online companies more effectively?  Agree.  Shift the balance to reintroduce more housing?  Yes.  Alter the rates structure?  Perhaps.  Retail space has evolved in my lifetime but now needs to move into a period of rapid change.  That's down to the retailers to make themselves attractive in terms of space,  stock, service and prices.  

Wow, where did you get all them ideas? :lol

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6 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Wow, where did you get all them ideas? :lol

I know you are looking for some since you have none of your own. So thought I would contribute some. 

A little bit of self interest too as I own high street premises amongst others. I have as they say " skin in the game"

It makes sense to keep oneself up to date. 

By the way.. those.. not them. 

Edited by St.Ricky

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13 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

I know you are looking for some since you have none of your own. So thought I would contribute some. 

A little bit of self interest too as I own high street premises amongst others. I have as they say " skin in the game"

It makes sense to keep oneself up to date. 

By the way.. those.. not them. 

Please, somebody.........................this can't be for real, can it? :lol

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21 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

A complicated problem.  Not one single solution.  Tax online companies more effectively?  Agree.  

Start with that. The likes of Amazon and Google have been ripping the piss out of the UK for too long. Unfortunately that’s never going to be solved in Tory Tax Haven Britain.

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7 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Please, somebody.........................this can't be for real, can it? :lol

You probably own your house. Great. But yet you find it strange that others own property too. That's what can be real. I have been in various businesses for the past 50 years. Along the way I have been lucky enough to build a wee portfolio.  I know that I am not the only one on here. Your obsession continues. Loosen up.

Edited by St.Ricky

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4 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Start with that. The likes of Amazon and Google have been ripping the piss out of the UK for too long. Unfortunately that’s never going to be solved in Tory Tax Haven Britain.

I'm with you on that CS.

Difficult to see sound arguments against. 

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21 hours ago, The Original 59er said:

Mike Ashley has told MP's that something has to be done with online retailers to help the High Street.

Basically he has said that unless some form of Tax is brought in to hit the  online retailer, the High Street as we know it, will be dead within 12 years.

 

 

20 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Not entirely true but it's commonly agreed their has to be changes to the traditional High Street model.

Ashley has a point that the rates evaluations were set long before the meteoric rise in online retails giants, damaging the efforts of many outlets in the High Street. 

 

 

 

21 hours ago, oaksoft said:

 

The future for town centres is low cost accomodation for young people with supporting entertainment facilities.

Just needs the right combination of people with enough money and vision to make it happen. Everywhere else is going to be left behind.

54 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

A complicated problem.  Not one single solution.  Tax online companies more effectively?  Agree.  Shift the balance to reintroduce more housing?  Yes.  Alter the rates structure?  

Let me help you fool, see above posts, do they look familiar? :1eye

Plagiarism, alive and kicking.  :byebye

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21 hours ago, oaksoft said:

The High Street is dead and it is not coming back in its current form.

Pension firms can invest elsewhere at the drop of a hat and quite frankly anyone investing in retail right now needs their financial credentials checked.

Everything is moving online because virtually everyone wants that.

The future for town centres is low cost accomodation for young people with supporting entertainment facilities.

Just needs the right combination of people with enough money and vision to make it happen. Everywhere else is going to be left behind.

I would probably agree that the High Street has changed dramatically, but maybe not dead. There are still quite a number of retail concerns that you would rather visit and try the product before you buy it. My son in law for instance has one foot slightly bigger than the other so if you order something online you can be pretty certain it ain't going to fit!

The main issue of retail change, and I quite accept that you aren't going to alter the current buying public's approach in general,  is that it has come in so quickly and it has devastated the traditional retailer to the extent that the market hasn't adjusted to the trend. Rents in the traditional High Street have plummeted and even rents in the likes of Braehead have taken a hit. I'm not so sure that all pension funds have fled quickly from retail, as you suggest, but they certainly will have adjusted where they are placing their money very carefully, unless of course you have told your pension company to avoid property at all costs.

 I'm sure that Mike Ashley isn't wrong in this matter and that if you take on a retailer such as House of Fraser and find that it is a broken model, you have to try very hard to make it work. If I was to accept your comments as gospel, then no retailer such as a large department store, such as HofF, Debenhams or Marks & Spencer will exist in a few years' time.

Turning to the other thorny issue relative to retailing, is the question of rates. At present the retail business pays a hefty amount towards the local government collection system. If retailing dies then the only present route for a local authority to turn to will be the Council Tax, i.e. you and me - and at present I'm not sure that anyone will argue that they get real value for money from the local authority and with a further amount to be paid to make up for the lost revenue from retailers, will make it pretty unpalatable.

So Mike Ashley's point is that the online retailers have to make a contribution to the system in both rent and rates to partially level the playing field. It's pretty good for the likes of Amazon to have a huge warehouse but just pay industrial rents per sq. m. and pay less for rates than a retailer. Something has to give!

 

 

 

Edited by The Original 59er

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11 minutes ago, The Original 59er said:

I would probably agree that the High Street has changed dramatically, but maybe not dead. There are still quite a number of retail concerns that you would rather visit and try the product before you buy it. My son in law for instance has one foot slightly bigger than the other so if you order something online you can be pretty certain it ain't going to fit!

The main issue of retail change, and I quite accept that you aren't going to alter the current buying public's approach in general,  is that it has come in so quickly and it has devastated the traditional retailer to the extent that the market hasn't adjusted to the trend. Rents in the traditional High Street have plummeted and even rents in the likes of Braehead have taken a hit. I'm not so sure that all pension funds have fled quickly from retail, as you suggest, but they certainly will have adjusted where they are placing their money very carefully, unless of course you have told your pension company to avoid property at all costs.

 I'm sure that Mike Ashley isn't wrong in this matter and that if you take on a retailer such as House of Fraser and find that it is a broken model, you have to try very hard to make it work. If I was to accept your comments as gospel, then no retailer such as a large department store, such as HofF, Debenhams or Marks & Spencer will exist in a few years' time.

Turning to the other thorny issue relative to retailing, is the question of rates. At present the retail business pays a hefty amount towards the local government collection system. If retailing dies then the only present route for a local authority to turn to will be the Council Tax, i.e. you and me - and at present I'm not sure that anyone will argue that they get real value for money from the local authority and with a further amount to be paid to make up for the lost revenue from retailers, will make it pretty unpalatable.

So Mike Ashley's point is that the online retailers have to make a contribution to the system in both rent and rates to partially level the playing field. It's pretty good for the likes of Amazon to have a huge warehouse but just pay industrial rents per sq. m. and pay less for rates than a retailer. Something has to give!

 

 

I'm not suggesting that you apply retail rates to Amazon (or others similar) but the old fashioned rates

You make a good point about the effect of the loss of rates and that is a serious concern which I hadn't thought about. I wouldn't be surprised to find that in a number of years time, we have no major retail chains left as bricks and mortar businesses. I can see them having small outlets for "touch and feel" purposes with the rest handled online.

Online shops also have to work out how to deal with those people who routinely order £400 of stuff knowing they are going to return almost all of it in advance. Personally I still prefer a shop where I can try on clothes but the range is now so poor that I'm starting to think about shifting online anyway.

It seems that traditional businesses see bricks and mortar as their core business with the online part bolted on. I think that philosophy has to reverse where your core business is online and you use the shop to sweep up the residual customers who don't want online services. Will be interesting to see how things progress but I am really not hopeful that we have sufficient talent or vision in local governments to take advantage of these changes. Policy seems to reek of wanting to resist the tide and that's not helping anyone.

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36 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

 

 

Let me help you fool, see above posts, do they look familiar? :1eye

Plagiarism, alive and kicking.  :byebye

I keep thinking that you can't be as stupid as you seem and then you go and outdo yourself once again .

I know nothing about your background nor do I care. You may or may not have a background in running your own businesses.  You may or you may not own properties on the high street or elsewhere.  

Doesn't stop you having an opinion and my background doesn't stop me from having one either..perhaps informed by actually owning premises which will be impacted. 

I suggest you spend more time illustrating your knowledge and sharing ideas than trying to create or sustain a personal vendetta. It bothers me little but does clog up the forum with puerile posts.

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22 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You make a good point about the effect of the loss of rates and that is a serious concern which I hadn't thought about. I wouldn't be surprised to find that in a number of years time, we have no major retail chains left as bricks and mortar businesses. I can see them having small outlets for "touch and feel" purposes with the rest handled online.

Online shops also have to work out how to deal with those people who routinely order £400 of stuff knowing they are going to return almost all of it in advance. Personally I still prefer a shop where I can try on clothes but the range is now so poor that I'm starting to think about shifting online anyway.

It seems that traditional businesses see bricks and mortar as their core business with the online part bolted on. I think that philosophy has to reverse where your core business is online and you use the shop to sweep up the residual customers who don't want online services. Will be interesting to see how things progress but I am really not hopeful that we have sufficient talent or vision in local governments to take advantage of these changes. Policy seems to reek of wanting to resist the tide and that's not helping anyone.

This is why I said Rates Review?

Thinking along similar lines.

 

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