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East Lothian Saint

Motivation Required

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2 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

 

Anticipated that this would be your reaction. 

Different views make the forum what it's. 

A highly profitable, fast growing company. 

Also dealt with multi national pharma, telephony and manufacturing companies which were market leaders who sought to create a positive mental model to go further. 

Many sceptics of course.. Usually in less successful organisations. 

I think you managed to successfully carve a career in selling utter bullshit.

If I hired a consultant who waltzed in and started asking my staff to name a song which described their feelings, Cornwall Saints suggested word of "defenestration" would have been put in action.

Just my opinion.

Yours may differ but you might want to re-consider the use of the phrase "Many sceptics of course.. Usually in less successful organisations." to describe those who see right through your nonsense.

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11 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Can you imagine.........................."I think I've heard enough, bye!" :byebye

"If you cut me in I will bleed green"

f**k.

Sake.

CRINGE!!!!!!

Does anyone have any tips for getting the hair on the back of my neck to settle down? How about getting my skin to uncrawl? Anyone?

Oh and I love the idea of a CEO who thinks that a suitable way to reward employees is to spend a fortune on a bust of them. I particularly like the idea that this somehow shows a marvellous example of a CEO with a connection with his staff.

Edited by oaksoft

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2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I think you managed to successfully carve a career in selling utter bullshit.

If I hired a consultant who waltzed in and started asking my staff to name a song which described their feelings, Cornwall Saints suggested word of "defenestration" would have been put in action.

Just my opinion.

Yours may differ but you might want to re-consider the use of the phrase "Many sceptics of course.. Usually in less successful organisations." to describe those who see right through your nonsense.

Thank you for that advice Oaky.

I'll bear it in mind. 

If you actually read what I said,  you will see that I got fed up with the usual approaches. 

Why.. Because, despite all attempts to do debunk what I was hearing that was unremittingly good about shared vision and values that I used,  for once, an alternative approach. 

The CEO and Main Board were delighted together with a number of suggestions for inprovements at all levels.

These led to further growth,  improvements in productivity,  reduced staff turnover and increased profits.

Also led to two further involvents 3 years apart which again led to further improvement.

Motivation is  the topic thread and this differs from culture to culture,  organisation to organisation and person to person. 

Happy for you to hold your views though. 

 

 

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If you cut me I would bleed black and white - no wait a minute - multiple colours which would merge to become tartan - no never mind...

As somebody famous once said, "I have a dream" - people, organisations, businesses all need to have HOPE and a measure of belief that better is possible - otherwise it is the mouse on the mouse wheel until they get off... and possibly before they would like to get off.

For what it is worth on motivation - my old boss went to the Managing Director and told him that "he could improve production by motivating the workers with a bonus scheme" - The MD replied, "our staff already have a bonus scheme". My boss was obviously bemused and asked about it - Our MD replied, "If they work their very hardest and produce great output at a high quality, the bonus is they will get to keep their jobs".

Productivity rose sharply when the news broke on the factory floor and in the offices - everyone was afraid job cuts could affect them personally, and they all had bills to pay.

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3 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said:

If you cut me I would bleed black and white - no wait a minute - multiple colours which would merge to become tartan - no never mind...

As somebody famous once said, "I have a dream" - people, organisations, businesses all need to have HOPE and a measure of belief that better is possible - otherwise it is the mouse on the mouse wheel until they get off... and possibly before they would like to get off.

For what it is worth on motivation - my old boss went to the Managing Director and told him that "he could improve production by motivating the workers with a bonus scheme" - The MD replied, "our staff already have a bonus scheme". My boss was obviously bemused and asked about it - Our MD replied, "If they work their very hardest and produce great output at a high quality, the bonus is they will get to keep their jobs".

Productivity rose sharply when the news broke on the factory floor and in the offices - everyone was afraid job cuts could affect them personally, and they all had bills to pay.

Did your MD shot himself in the head in 1945 ?

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1 minute ago, DougJamie said:

Did your MD shot himself in the head in 1945 ?

Naw - but I will assume that you are aiming for a laugh here.  :fishwallop

He retired a millionaire after selling the company a decade on. It took a continual downward spiral after I left...

 

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52 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Thank you for that advice Oaky.

I'll bear it in mind. 

If you actually read what I said,  you will see that I got fed up with the usual approaches. 

Why.. Because, despite all attempts to do debunk what I was hearing that was unremittingly good about shared vision and values that I used,  for once, an alternative approach. 

The CEO and Main Board were delighted together with a number of suggestions for inprovements at all levels.

These led to further growth,  improvements in productivity,  reduced staff turnover and increased profits.

Also led to two further involvents 3 years apart which again led to further improvement.

Motivation is  the topic thread and this differs from culture to culture,  organisation to organisation and person to person. 

Happy for you to hold your views though. 

 

 

 

Of course the CEO is going to say he's delighted. The man has no idea how his company works which is why he paid you to tell him.

If he doesn't understand his own business, why would he have the faintest idea about whether what you told him was good advice or not? He's hardly going to admit he made two mistakes is he?

He'll make a decision on your worth depending on profits in future years but he will have little clue about which factors changed profit for the better because as I said he had to hire you because he doesn't have a clue about how his own company works. He may have a feeling that you made things better but he cannot know for sure. It could be anything. In that vacuum of information, you make a healthy profit.

Edited by oaksoft

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If any CEO felt they needed the help of the international man of mendaciousness they probably required a psychiatrist well before then.

 

ETA.

Anyone know a song that would describe him?

 

 

Edited by stlucifer

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6 hours ago, East Lothian Saint said:

A Wee Motivational Story

Once upon a time we were shite.

On the 18 September 2016 Alex Rae got the blame and was told to feck off. St Mirren continued on a downward spiral and the forums were split on the new guy as the team plummeted towards the third tier of Scottish Football for the first time in their History. The future looked bleaker than a day out with the seventh Cavalry at the Little Big Horn. Our scalp was claimed every week and Comparisons between Jack Ross and General Custer were arguable. From week 5 to week 30 of that season we were ensconced in the automatic relegation spot.

Somehow, somewhere something changed into what was a magnificent season that magically unfolded in fairy tale proportions as the Great Escape became etched in the annuls of St Mirren History.

One of my main memories of that season was a little ditty the W7 crew had been chanting which became synonymous with our championship win. “We’re on our way,” was certainly looking like being on our way to oblivion but it wasn’t until one day in the Pie queue at Palmerston when I heard them signing that we were on our way to the Premiership and I laughed like Feck.

How we were going to get there, I certainly didn’t know and while they didn’t care, the chances of it happening any time soon looked remoter than Shull becoming a Full blooded, died in the wool old firm fan. There was fecking no chance.

But the W7 mob had a goal. They knew where they wanted to be and thankfully JR had the same idea. The stupid fecking, nonsensical song being sung at a time when St Mirren looked to be disappearing into Football Oblivion became the St Mirren Championship winning anthem.

Many of the Corporate motivation theorist actually teach that getting to where you want to be is not about how you get there but that the identification of what you want to achieve is the only thing that is important and the logistics are something we shouldn’t care about so the W7 lads and lasses where right up there with Modern Motivational thinking.

Does anyone know a song about avoiding relegation and going on to win the Premiership and the Champions league?

If Oran, the team, W7 and the rest of us can Unite in a song, we’ll be on our way.

 “People Who Are Crazy Enough To Think They Can Change The World, Are The Ones Who Do.”

We've conquered all of Renfrewshire, we're never gonna stop

From Barrhead to Greenock, we've won the f**king lot

From Sir Alex to Fitzy, to Streets of Greenhill Road

We are loyal supporters and we come from Paisley

Allez Allez Allez 

The Saints are on there Way

Allez Allez Allez 

The Saints are on there Way

And repeat

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4 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:

Naw - but I will assume that you are aiming for a laugh here.  :fishwallop

He retired a millionaire after selling the company a decade on. It took a continual downward spiral after I left...

 

Sounds a lovely man....:lol:

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16 hours ago, DougJamie said:

Sounds a lovely man....:lol:

you worked hard, you were valued... okay he got his pound of flesh, but he invested in good training for those who worked... did me little harm and taught me loads. Year after year he called me into his office and said something along the lines of "I have noticed your dedication and hard work, so how do you feel about getting a bigger rise than those who are not so hard working" I always accepted his offer and it could be twice what others got. I can always work with people who reward well and treat you fairly.

I think if a boss is too soft, they get taken for a ride and that is no good for any business.

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5 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said:

you worked hard, you were valued... okay he got his pound of flesh, but he invested in good training for those who worked... did me little harm and taught me loads. Year after year he called me into his office and said something along the lines of "I have noticed your dedication and hard work, so how do you feel about getting a bigger rise than those who are not so hard working" I always accepted his offer and it could be twice what others got. I can always work with people who reward well and treat you fairly.

I think if a boss is too soft, they get taken for a ride and that is no good for any business.

Your above paragraph does show that any " boss" has an impact whether its positive or negative. Personally having managed quite a few people in my past, he does sound very "old fashioned" in his approach. I have a feeling this isnt recent.

If it worked for you good.................... but if he has "noticed" then he has hardly managed your performance just formed an opinion on it................ and others. A very lazy way to work. IMHO 

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1 hour ago, DougJamie said:

Your above paragraph does show that any " boss" has an impact whether its positive or negative. Personally having managed quite a few people in my past, he does sound very "old fashioned" in his approach. I have a feeling this isnt recent.

If it worked for you good.................... but if he has "noticed" then he has hardly managed your performance just formed an opinion on it................ and others. A very lazy way to work. IMHO 

I'm with sweeper on this and had similar experience with bosses like this including rewards relative to my co-workers.

A good employee doesn't need managed. He is supposed to know exactly how to do his job with no more than a little oversight from his boss.  There is nothing "old fashioned" about that whatsoever.

An employee like that is worth his weight in gold and you pay him appropriately. I learned that lesson very early on.

If a boss has to manage an employee, IMO he needs a new employee.

Edited by oaksoft

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13 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I'm with sweeper on this and had similar experience with bosses like this including rewards relative to my co-workers.

A good employee doesn't need managed. He is supposed to know exactly how to do his job with no more than a little oversight from his boss.  There is nothing "old fashioned" about that whatsoever.

An employee like that is worth his weight in gold and you pay him appropriately. I learned that lesson very early on.

If a boss has to manage an employee, IMO he needs a new employee.

Oh well lets sack all the managers then ....... :lol:

What utter bollocks.  

Sweeper didnt even say what you have just said, he said he had respected his boss. His boss had actually managed him well .... if it worked thats all that matters. Sweeper is happy as is his company, great but managers are their to manage people to the best of their abilities, lend support.........

If you think people dont need managed your cleary have never worked with a  large company. Of course people do, but to different degrees.

Just because you didnt, bully for you.   Your perfect as you try to make out ...... to yourself

 

 

By your logic we would have 50% unemployment

Anyway back in 2018 :lol:

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1 hour ago, DougJamie said:

Oh well lets sack all the managers then ....... :lol:

What utter bollocks.  

Sweeper didnt even say what you have just said, he said he had respected his boss. His boss had actually managed him well .... if it worked thats all that matters. Sweeper is happy as is his company, great but managers are their to manage people to the best of their abilities, lend support.........

If you think people dont need managed your cleary have never worked with a  large company. Of course people do, but to different degrees.

Just because you didnt, bully for you.   Your perfect as you try to make out ...... to yourself

 

 

By your logic we would have 50% unemployment

Anyway back in 2018 :lol:

When working abroad I was often asked about how people were typically managed in Scotland. 

Sadly.. I sometimes replied that you knew you were appreciated by your boss when they stopped banging your head against the wall. 

Societally,  we are poor at recognition.  Management is one thing Leadership is another. 

Modern workers,  millenials e.g. look for ongoing feedback.  This might come by way of increased  latittude in doing their job or in having ideas implemented. 

Jobs,  goals,  objectives are rarely static and ongoing interaction between all levels in a business are needed to keep focus. 

Just my observation.. Of course others might feel differently. 

I did some work with Deputy Chief Constables on Leadership and Stakeholder Management around the time that the government changed the way they funded police at large events such as G8, Open Golf Championships etc.  I asked three questions.  The first was..Are you going to be asked to do more next year.  They all answered yes.  The Second was.. Are you going to get a real time increase in resources?  Their answer was.. no.  The third question was.. So how are you going to do it?  Shakes of the head or silence followed.  We then looked at leadership and stakeholder management inside and outside the Police and how these individuals could change their behaviours to achieve these.  Interesting answers emerged,  some,  but not all of which eventually became "the way we do things". Still a way to go to truly involve rank and file with top management to best effect. 

Effective Motivation means changing behaviours at every level in an organisation to create a fluid body able to adapt to rapid change and to-do so by taking its stakeholders with them.  This,  I believe is what our current board is attempting to do and am happy to support them. 

Fire away guys. 

Edited by St.Ricky

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2 hours ago, DougJamie said:

Oh well lets sack all the managers then ....... :lol:

What utter bollocks.  

Sweeper didnt even say what you have just said, he said he had respected his boss. His boss had actually managed him well .... if it worked thats all that matters. Sweeper is happy as is his company, great but managers are their to manage people to the best of their abilities, lend support.........

If you think people dont need managed your cleary have never worked with a  large company. Of course people do, but to different degrees.

Just because you didnt, bully for you.   Your perfect as you try to make out ...... to yourself

 

 

By your logic we would have 50% unemployment

Anyway back in 2018 :lol:

"Arguing with an idiot is as pointless as trying to hammer nails into concrete using grated cheese".

That was as true when my mum passed this nugget of wisdom to me at the age of 8 as it is now.

I wish I'd remembered that before replying to your post.

As for whether he said what I claimed he had, I'd rather hear that from sweeper rather than you. No offence.

Edited by oaksoft

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1 hour ago, St.Ricky said:

When working abroad I was often asked about how people were typically managed in Scotland. 

Sadly.. I sometimes replied that you knew you were appreciated by your boss when they stopped banging your head against the wall. 

Societally,  we are poor at recognition.  Management is one thing Leadership is another. 

Modern workers,  millenials e.g. look for ongoing feedback.  This might come by way of increased  latittude in doing their job or in having ideas implemented. 

Jobs,  goals,  objectives are rarely static and ongoing interaction between all levels in a business are needed to keep focus. 

Just my observation.. Of course others might feel differently. 

I did some work with Deputy Chief Constables on Leadership and Stakeholder Management around the time that the government changed the way they funded police at large events such as G8, Open Golf Championships etc.  I asked three questions.  The first was..Are you going to be asked to do more next year.  They all answered yes.  The Second was.. Are you going to get a real time increase in resources?  Their answer was.. no.  The third question was.. So how are you going to do it?  Shakes of the head or silence followed.  We then looked at leadership and stakeholder management inside and outside the Police and how these individuals could change their behaviours to achieve these.  Interesting answers emerged,  some,  but not all of which eventually became "the way we do things". Still a way to go to truly involve rank and file with top management to best effect. 

Effective Motivation means changing behaviours at every level in an organisation to create a fluid body able to adapt to rapid change and to-do so by taking its stakeholders with them.  This,  I believe is what our current board is attempting to do and am happy to support them. 

Fire away guys. 

I would love to fire in but there isn't a single concrete proposal in that large post of yours.

Plenty of hand waving vaguery.

People actually pay you to say this stuff to them? Honestly I am seriously impressed bud.

Leadership and Stakeholder Management? What is it with management people that they have to make relatively easy things so needlessly complicated? :lol:

Edited by oaksoft

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2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I would love to fire in but there isn't a single concrete proposal in that large post of yours.

Plenty of hand waving vaguery.

People actually pay you to say this stuff to them? Honestly I am seriously impressed bud.

To think, you can pick this drivel up from the internet. :wink:

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2 hours ago, DougJamie said:

Oh well lets sack all the managers then ....... :lol:

What utter bollocks.  

Sweeper didnt even say what you have just said, he said he had respected his boss. His boss had actually managed him well .... if it worked thats all that matters. Sweeper is happy as is his company, great but managers are their to manage people to the best of their abilities, lend support.........

If you think people dont need managed your cleary have never worked with a  large company. Of course people do, but to different degrees.

Just because you didnt, bully for you.   Your perfect as you try to make out ...... to yourself

 

 

By your logic we would have 50% unemployment

Anyway back in 2018 :lol:

My boss was an ass... my MD was very good. My boss refused to show me how to do anything, so I learned the hard way and made a point in helping every employee at every opportunity - I won friends and respect from them all. My MD was always interested, supportive and knew what his staff were producing. My boss only did things for himself - though he was capable and well regarded for what he individually produced..

My MD was fundamental on my growth, he set me new challenges, ensured I got the training and support from the right places and watch me grow like a father would. He saw potential and invested in me -  I knew there were other guys who made up the numbers and would be the first to go under certain circumstances.

I then went on to a multinational company and things were similar in some ways but very different in others. Not always the best employees rise to the top, politics and "friendships" play a part, but what I learned from the old MD helped me to keep progressing .

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1 minute ago, Sweeper07 said:

Not always the best employees rise to the top, politics and "friendships" play a part, but what I learned from the old MD helped me to keep progressing .

That is absolutely true. Another fantastic life lesson to be passed to any young person entering the workplace for the first time.

Life is harsh on those who wait for things to happen or believe in fairness.

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2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You can understand why proper businessmen like Alan Sugar has so many issue with management consultants.

They are peddling utter shite.

Indeed. The oil companies I've worked for, and the managers, would walk out of any sort of presentation spouting this drivel.

On the other hand colleges/universities would lap it up. 

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