Ayrshire Saints Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Spot on that was the bottom line, one and two bedroom properties were in far too short supply. But there just aren’t enough 1 bedroom properties to make the bedroom tax feasible. It doesn’t really save the country any money and it just makes the Tories look nasty. It’s ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russian Saint Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 I don’t always agree with Mr Galloway, but he’s hit the nail on the head with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said: People were moved and swapped where possible but there simply wasn't enough accommodation for one and two person households. I encountered very few cases of persons refusing to move to smaller accommodation that would have suited their needs. The vast majority of council housing in the areas I was working for were 2 and 3 bedroom, that's where the issues lay. The scenario you painted was pretty rare in my experience but that may well have been different in other parts of the UK. A classic example of a one size fits all policy that simply couldn't be made to work. Your right though that the ethos behind it had merit, it was just ill conceived. Fair enough. I should also say that I'm not defending the Tories on the policy. It is a good example though where they were genuinely trying to help and yet were accused of not caring at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russian Saint Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 I watched an interview yesterday with Nicola Sturgeon on GMTV (by Piers Morgan)The thing that got me was that she touched on the subject of another Scottish referendum for an “independent Scotland”One of his questions was. “How can Scotland be independent if the rules and regulations are basically governed by Brussels?”I was a leave voter (Indy 1) due to the fact that if Scotland gained independence at the first time of asking, we’d have been kicked out of the EU meaning we’d be totally independent unless there was a vote to reapply.So why would we want to be ruled by another body? Frying pan and fire spring to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 I watched an interview yesterday with Nicola Sturgeon on GMTV (by Piers Morgan)The thing that got me was that she touched on the subject of another Scottish referendum for an “independent Scotland”One of his questions was. “How can Scotland be independent if the rules and regulations are basically governed by Brussels?”I was a leave voter (Indy 1) due to the fact that if Scotland gained independence at the first time of asking, we’d have been kicked out of the EU meaning we’d be totally independent unless there was a vote to reapply.So why would we want to be ruled by another body? Frying pan and fire spring to mind. The UK and Scotland are part of Brussels. It’s not some separate entity that we play no part in.And those rules and regulations will still exist regardless of whether we are part of the EU or not.Would it not be better if we had a say in making those rules and regulations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornwall_Saint Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 8 hours ago, Russian Saint said: So why would we want to be ruled by another body? Frying pan and fire spring to mind. Most countries in the world are part of some trading bloc in some shape or form. The only country in the world who solely trades on WTO terms (which Britain is heading towards) is Mauritania. Its not like the EU rules with an iron fist. Every law passed needs general agreement from all countries. Less than 1% of current laws in Britain were “forced” on us (72 out of 34,000). Indeed only around 4,000 of those 34,000 laws are EU ones to begin with. The difference between the UK and EU is that while EU laws need agreement from all, England’s 533 MPs can outvote the 117 MPs of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland every time. The other three can never solely create a government majority the way the English population can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Cornwall_Saint said: Most countries in the world are part of some trading bloc in some shape or form. The only country in the world who solely trades on WTO terms (which Britain is heading towards) is Mauritania. Its not like the EU rules with an iron fist. Every law passed needs general agreement from all countries. Less than 1% of current laws in Britain were “forced” on us (72 out of 34,000). Indeed only around 4,000 of those 34,000 laws are EU ones to begin with. The difference between the UK and EU is that while EU laws need agreement from all, England’s 533 MPs can outvote the 117 MPs of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland every time. The other three can never solely create a government majority the way the English population can. You're last paragraph sums things up. Europe allows a veto whereas Westminster does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 So BJ has been asked why he got rid of 21 MPs by the 1922 club And if its because he says they voted against the Govt on Brexit, how does he justify, he and his present cabinet, did exactly the same thing against May's regime FOUR times..... Whatever comes out of this mess, our so called Leaders MUST be held accountable , for bare face lying, and bias …………….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 The difference between the UK and EU is that while EU laws need agreement from all, England’s 533 MPs can outvote the 117 MPs of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland every time. The other three can never solely create a government majority the way the English population can. Hilary Benn’s European Union bill second reading was backed by 329 for and 300 against. A winning margin of 29. All 35 SNP MPs voted for. So the SNP won the day for Scotland against the wishes of England. England is not a nation of unified opinion. London has a greater population than Scotland and also had a majority vote to remain. But the rest of England outvoted them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 You're last paragraph sums things up. Europe allows a veto whereas Westminster does not. The SNP MPs just vetoed England’s wishes to leave with no deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 So BJ has been asked why he got rid of 21 MPs by the 1922 club And if its because he says they voted against the Govt on Brexit, how does he justify, he and his present cabinet, did exactly the same thing against May's regime FOUR times..... Whatever comes out of this mess, our so called Leaders MUST be held accountable , for bare face lying, and bias …………….. May didn’t throw them out because she’d have lost her majority and didn’t want an election Boris can throw them out because he doesn’t care about having a majority and he wants an election Pretty easy to justify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said: May didn’t throw them out because she’d have lost her majority and didn’t want an election Boris can throw them out because he doesn’t care about having a majority and he wants an election Pretty easy to justify If its so easy to justify,. why is he being asked- he lost the second bill by 29 votes and he negated 21 of his votes. Slightly counterproductive wouldn't you say, Johnson had NO majority when he threw them out with the guy going to the Libs He isn't a leader, just a bully and a liar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 21 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said: The SNP MPs just vetoed England’s wishes to leave with no deal This I cant argue on...… and the core problem with devolved power. The SNPs will argue that they were doing the will of the Scots, however the English MPs are torn between what they want and what their constituents want. The SNPs are classing Scotland as one voice, where we know very well it isn't. Our Fishing and Agricultural sectors in Scotland voted Leave, and the SNPs should take all Scots into account rather than this blanket approach, it will their undoing Nearly 40% of Scots voted to leave the EU and 55% voted to remain in the UK, sometimes in Scotland its the noisy minority that represent us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, DougJamie said: This I cant argue on...… and the core problem with devolved power. The SNPs will argue that they were doing the will of the Scots, however the English MPs are torn between what they want and what their constituents want. The SNPs are classing Scotland as one voice, where we know very well it isn't. Our Fishing and Agricultural sectors in Scotland voted Leave, and the SNPs should take all Scots into account rather than this blanket approach, it will their undoing Nearly 40% of Scots voted to leave the EU and 55% voted to remain in the UK, sometimes in Scotland its the noisy minority that represent us 1-it's not a devolved matter, this is an issue of the UK parliamentary electoral system. Just as the tories claim to be doing the will of the people THEY represent, every SNP MP can reasonably claim to have been elected on a mandate to oppose no deal and avert Brexit if possible 2-You can't accept Wendy's over-simplified argument as you went on to justify the fact that EVERY vote counts. Nobody should doubt that there were Tories who voted with the government against their own better judgement, however they couldn't countenance losing the whip in the run-up to an election. The 21 rebels are simply the ones who didn't succumb to the bullying. As regards Fishing and agriculture, you might find that many people in those sectors have developed a certain scepticism as to what Brexit might offer them as they are, and will remain, bargaining chips for any deal we need to make with the EU, and we WILL need to make a deal even in the event of no-deal. Edited September 5, 2019 by beyond our ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, beyond our ken said: 1-it's not a devolved matter, this is an issue of the UK parliamentary electoral system. Just as the tories claim to be doing the will of the people THEY represent, every SNP MP can reasonably claim to have been elected on a mandate to oppose no deal and avert Brexit if possible 2-You can't accept Wendy's over-simplified argument as you went on to justify the fact that EVERY vote counts. Nobody should doubt that there were Tories who voted with the government against their own better judgement, however they couldn't countenance losing the whip in the run-up to an election. The 21 rebels are simply the ones who didn't succumb to the bullying. As regards Fishing and agriculture, you might find that many people in those sectors have developed a certain scepticism as to what Brexit might offer them as they are, and will remain, bargaining chips for any deal we need to make with the EU, and we WILL need to make a deal even in the event of no-deal. 1- The SNPs mandate is to Remain not no deal- 2- 487 MPs voted for Article 50- Not one of the 163 Non tories have explained why ? 3- I think the word you say " scepticism" is spot but that's in regards to all Politian's over the way all have demonstrated that they represent their own agenda, if we are being honest the SNPs ( NS) said to the Scots vote Remain , most did out of Blind loyalty , as the Remain campaign was weak - more the Devil you know " logic I know many farmers and I can assure you 99% of them are firmly Leave , of course Gove sold the dream( lies) to the fishing industry , who are trapped in EU legislation for 7 years after/if we leave..... Finally, good point on news yesterday. A year ago we talked about a Hard or Soft Brexit- Simply put- BJ represent Hard, May, Corbyn , Liberals - Soft...… we have an Election at some cant wait to the party agendas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Wendy Saintss said: The SNP MPs just vetoed England’s wishes to leave with no deal Really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 6 hours ago, Wendy Saintss said: The UK and Scotland are part of Brussels. It’s not some separate entity that we play no part in. And those rules and regulations will still exist regardless of whether we are part of the EU or not. Would it not be better if we had a say in making those rules and regulations? I'm having trouble getting used to this "normal human being" Wendy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 If its so easy to justify,. why is he being asked- he lost the second bill by 29 votes and he negated 21 of his votes. Slightly counterproductive wouldn't you say, Johnson had NO majority when he threw them out with the guy going to the Libs He isn't a leader, just a bully and a liarer, well, yes, the fact that he had no majority is the reason he wants an election and why he threw them outDo you want me to repeat it a third time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 This I cant argue on...… and the core problem with devolved power. The SNPs will argue that they were doing the will of the Scots, however the English MPs are torn between what they want and what their constituents want. The SNPs are classing Scotland as one voice, where we know very well it isn't. Our Fishing and Agricultural sectors in Scotland voted Leave, and the SNPs should take all Scots into account rather than this blanket approach, it will their undoing Nearly 40% of Scots voted to leave the EU and 55% voted to remain in the UK, sometimes in Scotland its the noisy minority that represent us For once, you post some snippets of sense [emoji12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 I'm having trouble getting used to this "normal human being" Wendy. [emoji3]Up yours piss face [emoji12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Wendy Saintss said: The SNP MPs just vetoed England’s wishes to leave with no deal You would need to remove all the Welsh and DUP votes before you can make that conclusion about how England voted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said: For once, you post some snippets of sense I'll take your word for it. I can't bring myself to read any of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 You would need to remove all the Welsh and DUP votes before you can make that conclusion about how England voted.I realise that but really can’t be bothered. We know for sure it’s the way the rest of the UK voted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornwall_Saint Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Wendy Saintss said: Hilary Benn’s European Union bill second reading was backed by 329 for and 300 against. A winning margin of 29. All 35 SNP MPs voted for. So the SNP won the day for Scotland against the wishes of England. Indeed in close English votes the others can end up deciding the outcome. That doesn’t stop the fact that a majority is 326, and England has 533 MPs - over 200 more than the number needed for a majority. When the English want to, they can decide everything for us. If votes were worked out on a veto basis like the EU has, then the decisions of Scotland and Northern Ireland would have prevented Brexit. This is why many are pro-Indy and pro-EU - in the EU it’s more difficult to force things upon you, while in the UK England can, if willing, dictate how things are going to happen. You only need to see the way that the SNP have been ignored throughout the whole Brexit process, and the complete ignorance of what both Norrhern Ireland and the Republic want regarding the backstop to know this is not a union of equal nations. 1 hour ago, DougJamie said: 55% voted to remain in the UK, Irrelevant now. One of the key broken promises made to No voters was that a No vote was our only chance of remaining in the EU. That has been proven to be bullshit now, and certainly for some people who were in the Don’t Know category, it was the deciding factor to edge towards voting No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 28 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said: er, well, yes, the fact that he had no majority is the reason he wants an election and why he threw them out Do you want me to repeat it a third time? Please - you put it so elegantly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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