Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[Slarti]

24 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

Be interesting what the vote would be if DEVO MAX option was on the ballot paper as a 3rd option. Wonder how many would vote for that ?

Other debate is whether 50% is correct bar for independence ?

Probably most would vote for Devo Max.  Those for independence would see it as another step in that direction and those for the union would see it as a way to placate the independence side.  And one or two folk would probably see it as the right option.

 

Why wouldn't 50% be the correct bar?  If it's a dichotomy, 50% is the only fair bar.  

[Slarti]

6 minutes ago, StanleySaint said:

Although living in England and therefore rightly having no vote I would think a straight majority vote as long as over 50% of those eligible to vote voted would be fair or alternatively 60% of votes cast if less than 50% of voters taking part, but if a straight majority was good enough for Brexit it should be plenty good enough for an Independence vote.

As soon as you start making rules about how high turnout should be etc, it starts giving one side or other an advantage.  I doubt turnout will be an issue though, so it's probably a moot point.

[Slarti]

5 hours ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

Well if it’s best of three, it’s currently 1-1 in Scottish Indy votes .

in 2014 , OF those who turned out to vote a majority did vote stay , you are right . However , in 1979 a majority of those who turned out to vote voted leave .🤷‍♂️

However, the 1979 Indy vote rules were changed by the Tories with Labour support to say a total of at least 40% of those eligible to vote must vote leave- the figure reached was 32%.  Although a majority of those who voted said YES? 51.8% 

If those same rules were applied in the UK election , the last election would have seen the Tories with only 29.3 % vote of those eligible to vote . 
Seems big brother again can shift the rules to suit themselves.

 

I think the 79 referendum was about devolution, not independence.

[Callum Gilhooley]

17 minutes ago, Slarti said:

I think the 79 referendum was about devolution, not independence.

I’ll bow to your superior knowledge 👍

The principal however remains the same rules changed to suit the Union agenda.

[Guest]

What really killed off ‘79 was Argentina ’78.

I’ve never seen a nation so positive as we were under Ally in the lead up to that tournament.

If only we had booked decent travel, accommodation, no off field sponsorship shenanigans, not taken certain injured players and Ally didn’t stay over loyal to certain players who were out of form.

He should also have taken Andy Gray who had been on fire in England and won both young player and player of the year. Ally took Joe Harper and Derek Johnstone instead.

Had we held this before the World Cup we would have been an independent nation by now with a oil fund to rival Norway.

So basically what I’m trying to say is the SFA are all to blame. 

[Rascal]

1 hour ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

What really killed off ‘79 was Argentina ’78.

I’ve never seen a nation so positive as we were under Ally in the lead up to that tournament.

If only we had booked decent travel, accommodation, no off field sponsorship shenanigans, not taken certain injured players and Ally didn’t stay over loyal to certain players who were out of form.

He should also have taken Andy Gray who had been on fire in England and won both young player and player of the year. Ally took Joe Harper and Derek Johnstone instead.

Had we held this before the World Cup we would have been an independent nation by now with a oil fund to rival Norway.

So basically what I’m trying to say is the SFA are all to blame. 

A lot of truth in what you wrote. Self belief was on a high and crashed in the aftermath of the Argentina adventures. What finished it off was the Scots MP for an English Constituency who brought forward the 40% Rule. Shame on him.

[beyond our ken]

2 hours ago, Slarti said:

I think the 79 referendum was about devolution, not independence.

True but ive often thought that if we had voted for devolution we would probably have been independent by 1990

[antrin]

6 hours ago, StanleySaint said:

Although living in England and therefore rightly having no vote I would think a straight majority vote as long as over 50% of those eligible to vote voted would be fair or alternatively 60% of votes cast if less than 50% of voters taking part, but if a straight majority was good enough for Brexit it should be plenty good enough for an Independence vote.

A straight majority was NOT good enough for Brexit.

That was not a vote about Brexit, it was a legally non-binding REFERENDUM, simply offered with the intention of placating the lunatics in the Conservative party.   It wasn’t a real vote for or against anything.  It was simply to see “how people felt” about it.

The basturt Tory government decided to implement something that none of us had actually voted for (or against)! and a craven Labour Party under the EU-Hating diddy Corbyn just let it go….

Unforgivable.  Outrageous. Undemocratic.

[StanleySaint]

I agree but as you well know everyone expected the result of the referrendum to be followed through on, so in reality it was a conscious vote to leave without any intention of the tories to do any follow up other than implement the result.

[W6er]

34 minutes ago, antrin said:

A straight majority was NOT good enough for Brexit.

That was not a vote about Brexit, it was a legally non-binding REFERENDUM, simply offered with the intention of placating the lunatics in the Conservative party.   It wasn’t a real vote for or against anything.  It was simply to see “how people felt” about it.

The basturt Tory government decided to implement something that none of us had actually voted for (or against)! and a craven Labour Party under the EU-Hating diddy Corbyn just let it go….

Unforgivable.  Outrageous. Undemocratic.

Aye, the people shouldn't have a say! Let's let those paragons of virtue in Westminster override the 17,410,742 who voted to leave. The plebs' opinion doesn't count. 

 

[faraway saint]

2 minutes ago, W6er said:

Aye, the people shouldn't have a say! Let's let those paragons of virtue in Westminster override the 17,410,742 who voted to leave. The plebs' opinion doesn't count. 

 

Same as the "non Scots" that voted in the last, once in a generation, referendum? 

[W6er]

1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

Same as the "non Scots" that voted in the last, once in a generation, referendum? 

I simply corrected a false statement!

Scottish people =/= voters living in Scotland! 😉

[Rascal]

22 minutes ago, StanleySaint said:

I agree but as you well know everyone expected the result of the referrendum to be followed through on, so in reality it was a conscious vote to leave without any intention of the tories to do any follow up other than implement the result.

Above all, it was an own goal by David Cameron which lumbered him and us with no option other than him to leave office and an incoming remainder try to minimise the damage. But, no, the far right wanted the full Brexit. Now I am not sure that there would have been a majority for a hard Brexit. 

[faraway saint]

3 minutes ago, W6er said:

I simply corrected a false statement!

Scottish people =/= voters living in Scotland! 😉

Bet your glad your flight to Rwanda was cancelled. 

[Rascal]

1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

Bet your glad your flight to Rwanda was cancelled. 

 

[Rascal]

7 minutes ago, W6er said:

I simply corrected a false statement!

Scottish people =/= voters living in Scotland! 😉

I like the Scottish People description applied to all of the voters living in Scotland. Inclusive. Yes. I like that as Donald Dewar said when talking about the parliament in Scotland.

[W6er]

38 minutes ago, Rascal said:

I like the Scottish People description applied to all of the voters living in Scotland. Inclusive. Yes. I like that as Donald Dewar said when talking about the parliament in Scotland.

Does that include Terry, "f**k the Scotch, I only moved up here 'cos of the house prices"? Because there are a lot of those.

[faraway saint]

7 minutes ago, W6er said:

Does that include Terry, "f**k the Scotch, I only moved up here 'cos of the house prices"? Because there are a lot of those.

Are there no "Scotch" that live in England because they felt it was the right move for them and their families? 

Potential votes lost? 

Edited June 15, 2022 by faraway saint

[Rascal]

8 minutes ago, W6er said:

Does that include Terry, "f**k the Scotch, I only moved up here 'cos of the house prices"? Because there are a lot of those.

I am the magnanimous sort W6er.

[antrin]

1 hour ago, StanleySaint said:

I agree but as you well know everyone expected the result of the referrendum to be followed through on, so in reality it was a conscious vote to leave without any intention of the tories to do any follow up other than implement the result.

No, I don’t “well know everyone expected” that.

it was billed as a non-binding referendum.

I certainly didn’t think it would followed through.  I know of people who didn’t vote as it was just another stupid Tory “party management” game.

if you see a bus coming down a road, then someone says “it’s a train”, it doesn’t actually turn the bus into a train.

 

it was only a referendum.

[W6er]

5 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Are there no "Scotch" that live in England because they felt it was the right move for them and their families? 

Potential votes lost? 

Not all English people are like that:

See @EnglishScot4YES on Twitter!

But those who move here and just view us as an English colony piss me off!

 

2 minutes ago, Rascal said:

I am the magnanimous sort W6er.

 

Indeed, you're a gentleman and a scholar! 

 

[Rascal]

1 minute ago, W6er said:

Not all English people are like that:

See @EnglishScot4YES on Twitter!

But those who move here and just view us as an English colony piss me off!

 

 

Indeed, you're a gentleman and a scholar! 

 

[faraway saint]

But those who move here and just view us as an English colony piss me off!

That's the type of "chip on your shoulder" that holds us back, an unnecessary attitude against anything English, verging on racist TBH. 

Indeed, you're a gentleman and a scholar! 

THe last bit, you are seriously off your head. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by faraway saint

[Rascal]

26 minutes ago, Rascal said:

These are the guys we want. 100 miles is nothing to them. Supporting the team from Wallace territory would be a must.

[W6er]

40 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

But those who move here and just view us as an English colony piss me off!

That's the type of "chip on your shoulder" that holds us back, an unnecessary attitude against anything English, verging on racist TBH. 

Indeed, you're a gentleman and a scholar! 

THe last bit, you are seriously off your head. 

Someone hasn't had his hole in a while...