East Lothian Saint

I'll admit my name is on the wall but even I wonder what the plan is.
Irrespective of the pros and cons of working with Kibble what this proposal does is create a scenario where Kibble could buy the Club.
Smisa Website says that if this goes ahead then during the interim period either GS, the Kibble or SMISA can veto any of the following.
- a number of matters will require the mutual approval of all three major shareholders (SMISA, Kibble, Gordon). These will include:
appointments or removals of a director of the club the sale of the stadium, changes to the club’s name, colour or badge, changing the club’s grass pitch to astroturf, and the appointment of major sponsors; any major borrowings, major contracts outwith the normal course of business, and approval of the club’s business plan; any major structural changes to St Mirren as a company, such as any reorganisation of its share capital, or changes to the club’s articles of association. After the deal is complete and Kibble only own 27.5% then either SMISA or Kibble can veto any of the above. Kibble still have a veto.
If SMISA find themselves in trouble and have to sell shares then Kibble get first option on buying. Not sure how it would evolve but theoretically  Kibble could end up with 71% of the shares if SMISA dissolves.
https://www.smisa.net/buythebuds/kibble-vote   Outlines this.
 
If Tedious Tom is right and SMISA don't know their arse from their elbow this deal could actually be the beginning of the end for Fan ownership.
Has TT uncovered a great conspiracy?
 
 
 
 

I'll admit my name is on the wall but even I wonder what the plan is.
Irrespective of the pros and cons of working with Kibble what this proposal does is create a scenario where Kibble could buy the Club.
Smisa Website says that if this goes ahead then during the interim period either GS, the Kibble or SMISA can veto any of the following.
- a number of matters will require the mutual approval of all three major shareholders (SMISA, Kibble, Gordon). These will include:
appointments or removals of a director of the club the sale of the stadium, changes to the club’s name, colour or badge, changing the club’s grass pitch to astroturf, and the appointment of major sponsors; any major borrowings, major contracts outwith the normal course of business, and approval of the club’s business plan; any major structural changes to St Mirren as a company, such as any reorganisation of its share capital, or changes to the club’s articles of association. After the deal is complete and Kibble only own 27.5% then either SMISA or Kibble can veto any of the above. Kibble still have a veto.
If SMISA find themselves in trouble and have to sell shares then Kibble get first option on buying. Not sure how it would evolve but theoretically  Kibble could end up with 71% of the shares if SMISA dissolves.
https://www.smisa.net/buythebuds/kibble-vote   Outlines this.
 
If Tedious Tom is right and SMISA don't know their arse from their elbow this deal could actually be the beginning of the end for Fan ownership.
Has TT uncovered a great conspiracy?
 
 
 
 

I'll admit my name is on the wall but even I wonder what the plan is.
Irrespective of the pros and cons of working with Kibble what this proposal does is create a scenario where Kibble could buy the Club.
Smisa Website says that if this goes ahead then during the interim period either GS, the Kibble or SMISA can veto any of the following.
- a number of matters will require the mutual approval of all three major shareholders (SMISA, Kibble, Gordon). These will include:
appointments or removals of a director of the club the sale of the stadium, changes to the club’s name, colour or badge, changing the club’s grass pitch to astroturf, and the appointment of major sponsors; any major borrowings, major contracts outwith the normal course of business, and approval of the club’s business plan; any major structural changes to St Mirren as a company, such as any reorganisation of its share capital, or changes to the club’s articles of association. After the deal is complete and Kibble only own 27.5% then either SMISA or Kibble can veto any of the above. Kibble still have a veto.
If SMISA find themselves in trouble and have to sell shares then Kibble get first option on buying. Not sure how it would evolve but theoretically  Kibble could end up with 71% of the shares if SMISA dissolves.
https://www.smisa.net/buythebuds/kibble-vote   Outlines this.
 
If Tedious Tom is right and SMISA don't know their arse from their elbow this deal could actually be the beginning of the end for Fan ownership.
Has TT uncovered a great conspiracy?
 
 
 
 

SMISA has 1300 members. Probably about 5% of them at most contribute on here. Given how every other SMISA vote has gone, regardless of what is said tomorrow (again only a small fraction of the membership will attend) I fully expect any proposal to be approved with a fairly large majority. I'm not saying for a minute whether that would be right or wrong, it's just what I expect will happen.  You just need to look at the majority in favour of each £2 pot proposal or the loan. I'd actually like to be wrong on this as it would show for once a level of engagement from the members but I suspect we won't see that. 

Please ask those questions on Thursday night.

I am also struggling to see the benefit of passing part of our expected shareholding to a 3rd party. 
From my attempts to understand the proposal the summary would be
1 GLS sells some shares early and receives cash early
2 Kibble get a shareholding that was not in original proposals 
3 Final SMISA shareholding on completion of buy out will be reduced
So how does the proposal benefit St Mirren or SMISA and what do Kibble really get for their cash ? 
 

Just wondering. 
Do we have a B&WArmy website facilitator (div maybe ?) out there who could simplify / interpret / summarise what the chairman's and Kibble's proposal actually does to disadvantage the SMiSA purchase plan (for the lame of thinking like myself) ?
I'm hugely interested in knowing what's occurring (with regard to BtB and how the latest developments may conflict with the original plan) but I'm miles beyond confused, particularly by the torrent of abusive posts here. 
So, WTF is being proposed by GLS that is important and what is just deflection that should be ignored ?
THANK YOU.

I think some posters need to take a step back and consider their posts on this thread.  it seems more important to some to attack LPM, or to try and trip him up, than it is to critically analyse the Kibble bid and comment on the merits of it.
 
LPM may talk in terms of opinion and be driven by passion for the club, but he is still taking the time to critically question the merits and virtues of the bid.  Maybe, if we did more of that and less of having a go at someone purely on the basis of personality, we could cut through the spin and vagueness that marks this bid out as, at least, highly questionable.

Of course, every application would be treated on it's own merits.  For example SMISA using the stadium for an open day or treating members, etc to hospitality or director's lounges.
Considering the only other party who would be likely to request such access would be SMISA who, of course, would be hamstrung by Kibble's veto, how many people would you envisage making a credible, justified and competent request to use the facilities for community benefit?  My guess is less than one.
 
It's the conditional rights that go along with the shareholding that Kibble are after.
 
You make a very good point (in bold), though.  If Kibble executives are using their funds to get access to the club's facilities then their plans would have to be BIG in order to get it past their governance structure.  My fear is that we would be a community support entity first and a football club a distant second

Contacted SMISA to ask and there is no vote at the meeting. It’s being done online next week.

Valid concerns indeed, and I do admit to being someone who will always get shafted once................because I tend to assume most people tell the truth as they see it. I just saw the question/answer session on Buddy vision, quite clearly not many people there ......sounded like just the press, however GS clearly stated that the ultimate decision as to whether Kibble-gate happens is down to the SMISA vote, I would have thought that seems a reasonable proposal. BUT I have no doubt there will be people who question the validity of said vote.................no doubt.
I think we will have to accept separate viewpoints on the whys and wherefores of Kibble-gate, I can't see him being stuck for a measly 300k as a rational for this, I think he thinks it's to the clubs benefit, HOQWEVER I do wonder (as you do) why they feel the need to spend money to get soemthing that is already been offered, so you may be right and I am suckered yet again...........story of my life. 😎

For all you slag LPM the feeling I got at Easter Road from the SMISA members I spoke to is one of great distrust to a proposal eight Months in the making without a murmur. The original plan merely ripped up and discarded. For all the confidence shown on here I think it could be a very close vote. Also do not think something like this should be decided on a simple majority. Should be 75% of all members for such a huge change.

The problem with LPM is that his reasonable points are wrapped up in a sea of unproven conspiracy theory mud slinging and posts full of incoherent screeching.
Someone else needs to calmly break down the risks here in a coherently stuctured and evidence-based manner because nobody is going to listen seriously to this absolute spangle.

So bottom line... His ball... He can do what he likes?

Still seems that way to me from what you say.

You sure about that ?  because he already has a deal, Am pretty sure it will be legally binding   

I hold no axe against GLS. Nor am I particularly beholden to him for parking some of his (company's) money with the club. There were, are plenty of assets there to return his funds if things went wrong. Nor am I angry with him over his stewardship of the club to date. Neither do I grudge him getting his money back at the planned date or sooner. These are, in my opinion, red herrings which distort calm and objective scrutiny of the proposals. My only other contribution so far has been to suggest that whether legally (that should be a given) or not that a straight majority would suffice it would be both good practice and in the interests of transparency to hold an EGM and require 75% to vote in favour. If it is a great proposition then what would it's supporters and proponents have to fear!? 

Oh my word. Really?

You don't care what happens to St Mirren fc as long as the person owning most shares does as they please, as is their right? Yes? Really?

Is that what you meant as that's how it read?

Can we cut out the insults and get down to finding out what is best for our Football Club.

Oh it is but my involvement had nothing to do with any wall and I'm sure you are really pleased with your wordsmithery, away and have a lie down, you must be getting tired by now.

Highly unhelpful post, there is a serious matter requiring debate/clarification not including clown car baw baggery of a tedious nature, thanks for your contribution

Great result today but it could have been so much easier. Obika and morias made great contributions but just don't look like strikers. Makeshift back four did really well. Cammy had a mixed game, great ball winning but poor passing. We give the ball away too easily and don't compete enough at times for 50:50 balls. However the goal was fantastic and with a true goalscorer we would have been out of sight today. Well done saints for sending everyone home happy especially given Hamilton result

Extra friends joining us for this one. Last game of the decade at our ground. I've seen the 70s,80s,90s,00s and Teens. Looking forward to it and, I hope 3 points. 

We will beat Killie - and there will be smiles on Saints faces going into the New Year !   

Nah.

Nightmare fixture against the mob with the biggest budget, at their hole and the dice stacked in their favour.
Do I think we can win? Maybe one in 80 games against them or something like that. But Livi managed it this season and it is on Boxing day - a few of their pissheads overdoing it and our super fit guys pulling off their best performance AND this could be the one.
Do I think we will win it - not likely. This would be an amazing scenario though - Keep it tight for 92 minutes and hit them on the break with a deft Cooke header. Then as the ref plays an extra 7 minutes, to give them every chance of coming back, keep it tight and hang on..... Now that would be 3 love points
So could we take a draw - why not? Again now highly likely - I think it would mean us scoring as I cannot see us keeping a clean sheet...
Mostly likely outcome is a defeat. Best case then is not by much . . . hopefully no injuries for us and not too many bookings or offs...
Still remember watching us beat them 4 nil on tv at my pals house . . . what a match that was...