Robo

Heard tonight that the sale is most definitely off.

And what happens when you are in need of essential services that are funded by people who don't look for ways of dodging contributing to the public purse based on their capacity to do so? Do you say, "no thanks, I haven't weighed in as I could have done so will pass"?

The spirit of the law is that you have to pay a certain amount of tax on the income you earn.
If someone were to come to me with a scheme that legislators hadn't thought of when writing the law, that means I can get away with paying less tax then everyone else, then I would deem that to be against the spirit of the law, and so wouldn't be interested.

The spirit of the law is that you have to pay a certain amount of tax on the income you earn.
If someone were to come to me with a scheme that legislators hadn't thought of when writing the law, that means I can get away with paying less tax then everyone else, then I would deem that to be against the spirit of the law, and so wouldn't be interested.

Since Teale and Longwell have taken over the first thing to notice is a huge difference in the attitude and commitment of the players. They now appear to be playing for each other and giving 100%. The difference between the last 5 games or so and most of the games before that is night and day. The players obviously respect him and play for him.
The second thing is he has dropped from the team all the players that many thought were nowhere good enough - Ball, Marwood, Drury, Caldwell and Reilly. And he has since got Caldwell and Drury off the books (and Plummer to save a wage). Teale saw where the weaknesses were and wasn't afraid to wield the big stick even though he had precious few options.
We have been incredibly unlucky with refereeing decisions over his last few games some of which undoubtedly cost us precious points - not Teale's fault. He has also had the courage to stand up for his players and challenge two sending offs via Appeals. Something that TC was very reluctant to do.
Teale has brought in a forward that looks like he will benefit the team. Considering its the January window when most decent players are still on contract and considering we have little money and our league position I would say his transfer dealing has been pretty reasonable.
His knowledge of our Development Squad gave him the confidence to throw in Stephen Mallan who now likes like he could be our next big thing.
Teale decided that Thommo's injury wasn't healing and it was now time to get it fixed properly - something that should probably have been done months ago.
In four Away games since taking over he has won two of them - the same number of away wins that TC took 4 months to get.
I do not see what else GT and DL could have done better in their short time in charge and doubt anyone else could have done better in the circumstances. Their knowledge of our squad had been a huge bonus and not a hindrance. The momentum is beginning to grow and I reckon they deserve the gig until the end of the season at least.

My answer would be that I want to pay whatever tax I'm due to pay, taking into account the spirit of the law, rather than the letter or the law.

My answer would be that I want to pay whatever tax I'm due to pay, taking into account the spirit of the law, rather than the letter or the law.

Because you can dress this up in all the legal terms you like but deep down inside everyone who engages in this knows it's morally indefensible to dodge tax in this type of way when people on low salaries are unable to do so.
The reaction of those found to be taking part is called a guilty conscience.
You should try it Dicky. It's what holds society together and provides us with taxes which stop us having to live in caves.
Right now the lowest earners in our society are paying for all of it and the richest are taking the piss as per usual.
Footballers are a case in point. It's not enough to earn £20k to £50k per week? You have to try to get out of paying any tax as well? WTF?

Surely it is just a dividend being released to shareholders as any private company is allowed to do. I am far from an expert, I'll admit, but it seems more rational and straightforward than turning the club in to some base for a triangulation system to shift players from Argentina to Italy.

The 7 figure player would be Argentinian, Santiago Garcia, who played for Rosario in Argentina and then moved onto Italy with firstly Novaro Calcio, then Palermo. He played 41 times for Palermo and was then transferred to Talca Rangers in Chile on 31st August 2013. The next day on the 1st September 2013 he was loaned to Werder Bremen, playing 22 times that season. The loan ended on 30th June 2014 and the next day he was signed by Werder, and has played 16 times this season. The total fee payed by Werder (loan and transfer) is listed as £1.8 million of which a third went to Palermo. Of the rest we can only surmise how much went to Talca. KPMG state that third party owners in South America can own up to 50% of a players rights. FIFA say 25% of transfers go to the player or agent. That would leave £300000 for Talca who were 100% owned by Piducano SADP, in turn owned by the brothers Pini. Rosario might have had a cut of future transfers. Talca might have got £150000 or maybe less. Santiago Garcia never played for Talca; nor even visted the club or Chile while registered with them. The Pini brothers sold Talca in September 2014. There were no taxes on football transfers in Chile, but I guess a transfer from Italy to Germany would incur taxes.Taxes would be payable by football transfer sellers and buyers in the UK. This was all decided to be legal after numerous court cases, but in January 2013 the Argentinian FA and tax authorities announced they would bring in rules to ban third party ownership,invoke new taxes related to football transfers and insist on new registers of player ownership.They have blacklisted clubs considered to have abused the transfer/tax system. The whole thing has a whiff of EBTs about it. Legal but pursued relentlessly by the taxman and then banned. I can't see how any of the above would be allowed under existing SFA and HMRC rules.Third party player ownership is banned by the SFA. Dual ownership/interest of clubs is banned by the SFA (Rankine and Ashley), so any Girona purchase would surely mean deal off. The new owner of Talca has admitted that the Pini brothers still have interests in many squad players. Talca Rangers were in administration when the Pini brothers bought them in an auction. Girona FC are currently in administration. I don't think, thankfully, St.Mirren are anywhere near administration. If the Pini brothers, the Floridian hotelier and the other bloke gain control of St.Mirren through T4C Sports Ltd I hope they have a new business model.

Gary Teale give him the job.
SMISA get organized lets buy the club.

No way. Three times as many fans signed up to pay £10 per month as 10000hours were looking for initially. So how is that too few or the cost too much? Ultimately the loans could have been forgone assuming 10000hours met the funders community engagement targets, so we might never have had to repay the full sums.
If anything the deal on the table was better than Hearts and that is pretty good.
In any case it was miles ahead of where we are now in my opinion. Not one of us knows what is going on, if or when something will happen and we certainly won't be asked to be full or part owners. Now we can just wait and hope for the best on and off the park.

IT'S ABOUT THE SOUL OF OUR CLUB.
(Aye, I'm aware of how poncy that sounds...)
For some years now, I've grown more and more disenchanted by Scottish fitba (commercialised fitba in general, I guess).
Scotland became a sham when it hired a foreign manager and played so many not-quite-Scottish players in it.
(I've still been to every Scottish game south of the border since 1979... it's been by chance, lately - my heart's not in it.)
Not only Scotland, of course. "If they do why shouldn't we?" What's the point of having National teams if the National part of the deal is so diluted? Champions League gives you sight of all sorts of foreign prima donnas if you like that kind of stuff, night after boring night.
I will only bother to watch Scotland and St Mirren. At least I would once upon a time... but the fairy tale is no longer as attractive.
St Mirren? Aye, it's my team. Every visit to Paisley is scheduled to somehow get to see the Buddies (and my Buddies), if possible. Is my heart in that? I think it still is, despite the onslaught of negativity and that grey, dull concrete box. When my Buddies are not around I still go alone and have been lucky enough to bump into other Buddies (some first met via this forum!).
I get pleasure out of meeting with London Saints... maybe it's just to hear Buddies talking normally... but it's usually fun, and a few beers in which to drown our sorrows.
There's the Sevco fiasco, where a club that has ripped millions from the general public to finance its vainglorious pursuit of success, has died but the authorities pretend it survived an event no other business has survived. Ever! Cheats running a so-called 'sport' for the benefit of other cheats - and all, it appears, acceptable to the managements of all other clubs in the Leagues. Only a fans revolt made them see partial truth and fairness, but they're still trying to cheat.
Apart from the opening line above, I never now type or speak of 'US' or 'our' or 'we' - I no longer find it easy to identify myself with temporary, highly paid, transient hired hands of whatever nationality. (Thommo and Cheesy are absolved... )
I know I wouldn't be missed. I know there will be those who would say, "f**k off, then, you're hardly ever here. we don't need you". I would just be one of the thousands who no longer bother...
The idea of our/the club being passed off to non-Buddie hands is possibly the final straw, a shite state of affairs... Especially if, indeed, it would be simply to serve as a tax-avoidance vehicle.
Where's the soul in that?

Yeah they thought all of that at Greyskull too!
how many big red flashing lights and sirens do you need?

I joined SMiSA this morning. it took me less than a minute to do so.
If you signed up for 10000Hours then you already have a GoCardless account and will be able to do the same.
Membership costs from just £2 a month.
A strong supporters trust is going to be important if the club is moving into unknown territory, which it appears to be.
And if you dont' like what SMiSA are doing, then join, and volunteer to join the committee and help effect change from the inside.

When 10000hours wanted fans to sign up for DD pledges, they held open meetings, set up a website, and had leaflets handed out, and stories in papers.
At this increasingly worrying time, with who-knows-who possibly buying the club, or not, allied to leaks and statements from disgruntled consortiums, I think (as Div said) this is the time for individual fans to join SMiSA.
I agree. What I think SMiSA should be doing is to be coming out at this time and engaging with the support to get people to join. The SNP saw a massive rise in numbers while the time was right for them. This is the right time for SMiSA to strike - through local newspaper articles, leaflets handed to supporters, basically be visible and bang the drum, as 10000hours did.

Joined this afternoon. Hoping that SMISA will be the vehicle for fan ownership.

well done robo
during the current fiasco that is the club sale if nothing else we need a supporters trust as strong as it possibly can be, no matter who the owners are
the membership and the shareholding are steadily increasing

OK, I got to thinking about what we actually need now to avoid relegation, on the balance of probability. I won't lie, it's not looking good.
Sadly, we only really have last year's league table to use as a precedent in terms of target numbers. It was the first season where there were no truly dead rubber games in the bottom six, so you could rely on everyone trying right up to the end of the season.
So, with that in mind, and ignoring Hearts' points deduction, 38 points was enough to avoid the play-off on goal difference. This tallies with the general rule of thumb that one point per game over the course of the season is usually enough to stay up in any league, give or take.
Our main rivals for 10th place, Motherwell, need 21 points from the same number of games, which is an eminently easier task: 6 wins and three draws from 17 games. It is therefore fair to suppose that 38 points will be the minimum target.
The state of play:
We are on 11 points from 21 games, a nowhere-near-good-enough ratio of 0.52 points per game.
We have 17 games left to play, from which, based on last season, we need 27 points, or 1.58 points per game
This can be divided by the following, all calculated as a bare minimum and aiming to hit 38 points precisely:
9 wins, 0 draws, 8 defeats.
8 wins, 3 draws and 6 defeats.
7 wins, 6 draws and 4 defeats.
6 wins, 9 draws, 2 defeats.
Beyond the above, in either direction, I'd say we're moving into the realms of impossibility. In fairness, I think we already are. It's interesting (or it was to me, anyway) to see it laid out.
I can't honestly see us turning things around to the extent that we are winning 7 or 8 games between now and the end of the season. I would suggest that our best bet might be to aim to get the team in shape, fit, firing and confident, in 11th place, to beat The Sevco over two legs in the P/O final.

Joined this afternoon. Hoping that SMISA will be the vehicle for fan ownership.

wasn't specifically talking about fan takeover, there are hundreds of saints shareholders some I'm sure with business background that could do a job on the board, put one or two in place and allow those board members who don't want to be there to step aside
voted on, perhaps, but why would anyone not vote for a shareholder and potential new board member if it meant improved impetus and drive that could provide some stability and confidence of the employees and fans
this would not prevent the consortium from still trying to sell their shares but they should be doing it from the sidelines, not from the boardroom

Given the name of our club, might be tricky to keep 'religious vibes' from the forum.

A quick guide to supporting St Mirren FC:
Place a standard house brick on a table.
Rest your testicles on the brick.
Take another house brick in your hand, and bring this down to meet the original brick with as much force as you can muster.
Repeat.

Given the name of our club, might be tricky to keep 'religious vibes' from the forum.

that's just sad