div Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 A Sevener was working through at Motherwell. Their shop is in constant use. It’s actually run by Provans who pay saddlebags of pesos to the club and operate an emporium on site. Did "the sevener" also tell you that the new Motherwell kit is still not available for sale, and has a release date of "TBC" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 I thought you were supposed to be a journalist ? Decipher his "serious accusations" and go and ask 10000Hours yourself. I'd take him seriously if he had the balls to man up and face the 10000Hours team who opened the door to him. Posting nonsense on a public forum behind a (very thin !) cloak of anonymity deserves absolutely no respect IMO. Yul's posts have been made on a forum that 10000hours voluntarily signed up to to answer questions (or the questions that they choose to answer, rather than the difficult ones). Don't think it's asking too much to expect 10000hours to make some sort of response to those posts, even if it's to say it's a load of rubbish and here's why. I saw rea was reading this thread earlier so he knows about the posts. I know if someone was making similar posts about some project I was involved in on a site I was a member of I'd be looking to do the same. As it happens, I agree with a number of Yul's points and can't be bothered asking the questions contained within because I've already asked other questions and not had an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) I'd take him seriously if he had the balls to man up and face the 10000Hours team who opened the door to him. Posting nonsense on a public forum behind a (very thin !) cloak of anonymity deserves absolutely no respect IMO. Or RA could have 'the balls' to answer some of his/hers concerns on the forum. 'The 10000hours team' welcomed this on the forum, but have dodged many questions, or 'nonesense' if you like to call it that just because you disagree. What difference does it make if he is posting from " behind a (very thin !) cloak of anonymity"? Almost all the forum users do so also people are acting as if this is being done out of badness but I'd say it's being posted because he/she is concerned for the future of the club he/she supports. Who knows if he/she is right or wrong but I think the treatment so far has been poor from the CIC supporters. Edited July 11, 2011 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Yul's posts have been made on a forum that 10000hours voluntarily signed up to to answer questions (or the questions that they choose to answer, rather than the difficult ones). Don't think it's asking too much to expect 10000hours to make some sort of response to those posts, even if it's to say it's a load of rubbish and here's why. I saw rea was reading this thread earlier so he knows about the posts. I know if someone was making similar posts about some project I was involved in on a site I was a member of I'd be looking to do the same. As it happens, I agree with a number of Yul's points and can't be bothered asking the questions contained within because I've already asked other questions and not had an answer. As I said, typical journalist. Man up, pick up the phone, ask the man for an interview, go and talk to him, ask your questions, get the answers, publish them on your site, get the exclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 The forum here was never going to work as a medium for sensible questions and answers about the CIC. The same questions have been asked, and answered, dozens of times but yet they are still posted. I think the answer is for TTH to have a defined question and answer section on their own website, not here, not on the official site. On their own website. People can see the common questions and the answers there for themselves, and email in any questions that haven't been dealt with ? Would that not be more sensible than all this absolute nonsense ? And yes, forgive me, but posting "serious concerns" in a wild west style is absolute nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 The forum here was never going to work as a medium for sensible questions and answers about the CIC. The same questions have been asked, and answered, dozens of times but yet they are still posted. I think the answer is for TTH to have a defined question and answer section on their own website, not here, not on the official site. On their own website. Questions were quite obviously being ignored, a blind man could see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 As I said, typical journalist. Man up, pick up the phone, ask the man for an interview, go and talk to him, ask your questions, get the answers, publish them on your site, get the exclusive. That's it div, pick out the bit you can use to slag me off, rather than comment on the bits that criticise your pal Richard. Wonder what you're getting for your stance as the CIC's head cheerleader that batters down the slightest whiff of criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 That's it div, pick out the bit you can use to slag me off, rather than comment on the bits that criticise your pal Richard. Wonder what you're getting for your stance as the CIC's head cheerleader that batters down the slightest whiff of criticism. I bothered to find out about the CIC because it affects the football club I support. I had concerns, I asked the questions, I got answers. I went to the public meeting, I heard other peoples concerns, I noted the answers and even put them on a public website verbatim to try and communicate them to fans who couldn't attend. I made my own mind up about the CIC and whether it was good for the club or not because I COULD be bothered. I have said before I will be joining the CIC as an individual member, nothing more. I am not "getting" anything out of the CIC any more than any other St.Mirren supporter who wants to see the club try something different. If it doesn't work it doesn't work, the club goes back up for sale and is sold to someone else who may or may not be good for the club. You can make your own mind up about "Yul" and "Animal", both the same person, and their agenda about trying to de-rail the CIC. Ask yourself why they attended the public meetings yet said NOTHING, why they refused a 1:1 offer from Richard and the team to address their concerns in person, why they ignored a request to attend a public debate, them versus the CIC to air all their concerns in public ? Why would they continue to hide ? What is it they are trying or hoping to achieve ? They may well have very valid concerns and if they do I'd love to hear them but all I am hearing is bitching about not being able to buy a scarf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) I get a lot of the points yul is making. I think its daft no merch is available for sale & I think the laundry idea is absolutely ridiculous. While the cheap season ticket deal was good for me, up until 2 weeks ago, the club had sold 4 season tickets after the first deadline. I don't know what that number is now, but that must have cost the club money. On top of that I know people who Richards tried to sell a corporate membership to and when asked "what do I get for my 10k?" He answered "what do you want for your 10k" That's a load of pish if you ask me. The 87 club was mentioned at a q&a night and he said you'd "get a warm feeling inside" for buying it. That's not exactly convincing is it? f**k knows how anybody has agreed to 10k or 3k a year for them. I've also been told by someone in the club that they reckon it will fail within the first 2 years. While I hope it works for st mirren football clubs sake, I just can't see it. ETA, the questions which didn't suit were definitely ignored on here. Wether this was the best place to have a q&a, who knows. But don't have a section for it if your not going to answer them. Edited July 11, 2011 by slapsalmon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 I bothered to find out about the CIC because it affects the football club I support. I had concerns, I asked the questions, I got answers. I went to the public meeting, I heard other peoples concerns, I noted the answers and even put them on a public website verbatim to try and communicate them to fans who couldn't attend. I made my own mind up about the CIC and whether it was good for the club or not because I COULD be bothered. I have said before I will be joining the CIC as an individual member, nothing more. I am not "getting" anything out of the CIC any more than any other St.Mirren supporter who wants to see the club try something different. If it doesn't work it doesn't work, the club goes back up for sale and is sold to someone else who may or may not be good for the club. You can make your own mind up about "Yul" and "Animal", both the same person, and their agenda about trying to de-rail the CIC. Ask yourself why they attended the public meetings yet said NOTHING, why they refused a 1:1 offer from Richard and the team to address their concerns in person, why they ignored a request to attend a public debate, them versus the CIC to air all their concerns in public ? Why would they continue to hide ? What is it they are trying or hoping to achieve ? They may well have very valid concerns and if they do I'd love to hear them but all I am hearing is bitching about not being able to buy a scarf. The time delay is unforgivable and as a previous supporter of the cic I will now be withdrawing my direct debit. As a massive supporter of the plan on here it is now clear that 10000hrs have neither the balls to set a date or continue any momentum towards a conclusion. The lack of information is pathetic and this will be my last post on here. It is clear to me now that Richard Atkinson has neither the ability or insight to take this forward. As the club will be sold i fear the worst so thank you and goodbye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 The time delay is unforgivable and as a previous supporter of the cic I will now be withdrawing my direct debit. As a massive supporter of the plan on here it is now clear that 10000hrs have neither the balls to set a date or continue any momentum towards a conclusion. The lack of information is pathetic and this will be my last post on here. It is clear to me now that Richard Atkinson has neither the ability or insight to take this forward. As the club will be sold i fear the worst so thank you and goodbye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Last week I was sorting out a kit order for our football club talking to a rep in the area. He's put together a pretty comprehensive package for our team which also involves a range of hats and scarves (for a juvenile club!) key rings, dog tags etc. There were one or two badged items in his office that suggested that an order was on its way to Greenhill Road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 The time delay is unforgivable and as a previous supporter of the cic I will now be withdrawing my direct debit. As a massive supporter of the plan on here it is now clear that 10000hrs have neither the balls to set a date or continue any momentum towards a conclusion. The lack of information is pathetic and this will be my last post on here. It is clear to me now that Richard Atkinson has neither the ability or insight to take this forward. As the club will be sold i fear the worst so thank you and goodbye. Oh FFS.... I'm looking forward to tomorrows post where you will announce that you've died again as a St Mirren fan and you're now a Reborn Bowler.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultrasupra Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Reborn saint is now unborn saint...pathetic There will be a decision made by the 20th, I can assure you of that. Not long really to wait and well within RA timeframe for the completion of this takeover. This was clearly stated at the several meetings held at the stadium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 The time delay is unforgivable and as a previous supporter of the cic I will now be withdrawing my direct debit. As a massive supporter of the plan on here it is now clear that 10000hrs have neither the balls to set a date or continue any momentum towards a conclusion. The lack of information is pathetic and this will be my last post on here. It is clear to me now that Richard Atkinson has neither the ability or insight to take this forward. As the club will be sold i fear the worst so thank you and goodbye. Hmmm.... Is this 'reborn saint' also the chappie 'Jenkins' mentioned on another thread...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 I wonder if that great marketing guru Mr. Atkinson can explain to us why is is impossible to buy even a simple scarf for the new season ? Will there be anything to buy before Christmas (this Christmas if possible) ? It is now a few months since Provan Sports shut up shop and no sign of any replacement - another victory for the local COMMUNITY ? - I don't think so. Can he tell us how much of the purchase price on the new strips goes to the Club ? Looked in at JD Sports in the Paisley Centre today. Guess what is says on the 3 by 2 foot poster at the feet of the 'dummy' in the widow wearing the strip - Details of the r*ngers strip ! Don''t think Provan's would have done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Reborn Saint - some turnaround he's had over the last few months, all because it takes longer than expected. WTF? Stu- Put it this way, he'll never be uncovering the next big scandal for the Guardian. He's been negative about the whole thing since day one but has yet to contribute anything other than the petty jibes at RA&Co, certainly nothing though provoking. Animal / Yul - Needs to grow a set of balls. I'm pretty sure RA knows exactly who this person is. Rising to the bait is exactly what this person is looking for. Unsubstantiated nonsense is not worth engaging with. Slapsalmon - Some interesting and well thought out points, but I disagree on the corporate point. The corporate membership thing is a bit different and sure it may be a bit of a risk for some businesses to cough up 10k for what they percieve to be little in return. But, on the other hand it may be a great networking opportunity for other organisations. Business is built around networking these days and believe me £10k is peanuts for "social spend" in many organisations. Only time will tell if it works. Div - Fully agree with post 2090. I've not committed to the CIC as yet. I do think there are some flaws in the system, but some of the rubbish and mischief posted on here is beyond belief and certainly unmeritted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Slapsalmon - Some interesting and well thought out points, but I disagree on the corporate point. The corporate membership thing is a bit different and sure it may be a bit of a risk for some businesses to cough up 10k for what they percieve to be little in return. But, on the other hand it may be a great networking opportunity for other organisations. Business is built around networking these days and believe me £10k is peanuts for "social spend" in many organisations. Only time will tell if it works. I've not committed to the CIC as yet. I do think there are some flaws in the system, but some of the rubbish and mischief posted on here is beyond belief and certainly unmeritted. The corporate and community membership was always going to be a bit of a problem - just as the guy from Partick Thistle said at the conference I was at. Because of the nature of the deal - buying 52% shares for £2m, and because the CIC needed to have members on board prior to owning the club - it was always going to be a case of putting the cart before the horse. I had exactly the same problem when I approached Richard to see what our wee football club could get for our £500 and we had the same problem in that when we were asked we had loads of ideas but Richard couldn't commit with any certainty because the St Mirren Ltd board would have to be elected and be in position to say yes or no to each proposal. It's frustrating, and it's a massive hurdle for both Community and Corporate Members but right now I suppose they would be putting their money up so they can vote in the election and put the people they believe will look after their interests into position. One thing is for certain, no matter what becomes of the St Mirren bid many clubs in Scottish Football are going to go down the CIC/SEN route and ultimately they will be the clubs that prosper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Oh aye, and is the laundrette idea really so stupid? Maybe I've got this all wrong but I doubt that St Mirren fans were the likely target market. I think it's far more probable that someone has had a look around the Ferguslie Park area and realised that there is no laundrette there - at least there isn't when you do a Google search - and they've thought that with the demographic in the area it might be a business that actually could see regular use and turn a healthy profit on a Monday to Friday basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hmmm.... Is this 'reborn saint' also the chappie 'Jenkins' mentioned on another thread...? AaaaHaaaaa! I wonder if that great marketing guru Mr. Atkinson can explain to us why is is impossible to buy even a simple scarf for the new season ? Why are you asking RA? Ask the current owners of the Club FFS! Will there be anything to buy before Christmas (this Christmas if possible) ? Of course not It is now a few months since Provan Sports shut up shop and no sign of any replacement - another victory for the local COMMUNITY ? - I don't think so. Can he tell us how much of the purchase price on the new strips goes to the Club ? At last a sensible, direct question, but if answered, would just result in a 'no enough for Saints' jibe from you I fear. Looked in at JD Sports in the Paisley Centre today. Guess what is says on the 3 by 2 foot poster at the feet of the 'dummy' in the widow wearing the strip - Details of the r*ngers strip ! Don''t think Provan's would have done that. ...And if Provan's did that, you would have complained or sniped about it on here instead? Did you complain to JD Sports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Some really desperate and petty stuff getting posted now as the formal takeover is nearing completion and the St Mirren community ascends to the CIC promised land. Stu's rant is a belter.....accusing Div of having some clandestine agenda based on personal gain has to be one of the worst posts ever made on B&WArmy or any of the online Saints resources. That restraining order keeping him out of Kirkcudbright's fields and farmyards is really taking its toll. The reality of the CIC process has always been one of inclusion. There has been an open invition from the meetings for anyone interested to join the current CIC board. As yet I am the only person to have taken up the offer, hence my unopposed upcoming role as Fan's President (for 6 months anyway). As for the soul wrenching nonsense about Provans. The key is in the claims here. It appears from the frankly pathetic posts that St Mirren is losing millions due to merchandising not being available. It is also suggested by the posts that Provans paid a set fee to sell St Mirren kit and merchandise over a set period. This would suggest that the contract was not renewed at a suitable time for both parties - as in end of season to allow Provan's to offload last seasons bumph. It would have made no sense to Provans or their suppliers to have a short term contract. It would be nice to get some reassurance that the club shop will be ready for the start of the season. Other than that it is a non-issue; other than not having a new top to wear on my hols. I can live with that as can most sane fans. Once again we see small issues that you would expect during such a period of change blown out of all proportion. This does nothing for those that would seek to damage St Mirren football club and the fans empowerment other than make them look like fannies. The CIC is happening, the CIC will be successful, the fans will be empowered, the club will grow as will the support. The CIC is a no brainer. The only reason for being against it is pretty much what Stu is accusing Div of....personal interest. Again, shame on the supporters that would seek to damage the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 The reality of the CIC process has always been one of inclusion. There has been an open invition from the meetings for anyone interested to join the current CIC board. As yet I am the only person to have taken up the offer, hence my unopposed upcoming role as Fan's President (for 6 months anyway). Offt...I wondered why so many people were saying the CIC wouldn't last two years. Now I can see why - infact I give it six months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Offt...I wondered why so many people were saying the CIC wouldn't last two years. Now I can see why - infact I give it six months. Correct lawfud...its only chance of survival will be a life-time tenure for el presidente Sid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Correct lawfud...its only chance of survival will be a life-time tenure for el presidente Sid. I just hope Richard Atkinson has the appropriate checks and balances in place to counteract all the damage you'll do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I just hope Richard Atkinson has the appropriate checks cheques and balances in place to counteract all the damage you'll do Hope so too....the free season tickets, parking, pies, strips, hats, scarves, programs, buses for all supporters will need to be funded by someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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