The Club Buy Out - 10000 Hours

[bluto]

We would be delighted to hear from you regarding your own ideas.

No one at 10000hours has claimed that their is only one way of doing this and if there are people wo can contribute ideas that can make a difference then we would be delighted to hear them.

Please either post your ideas on here or mail to [email protected].

We would also like to hear of your experience at other Community Sports Clubs incase we can learn anything, which ones have you been involved with?

Your delight may transform into miasma, a pall of wtf...?

I respect your politeness and desire to reach out but beware what may stick to your fingers...

SG and SD have had words previously.

[10000hours]

Would it be enough to know that my individual membership will grant me some influence as to how the club is organised and run? Well....only if I was furnished with sufficient information to confirm that this would genuinely transpire, and how.

We believe that it will grant you significant influence and we look forward to furnishing you with infomation at the public meetings.

[ktf]

Your delight may transform into miasma, a pall of wtf...?

I respect your politeness and desire to reach out but beware what may stick to your fingers...

SG and SD have had words previously.

I have a funny feeling 10khrs already knows this. Giving a dummy to a baby shuts them up for a good period of time.

[10000hours]

the one board member that 10000 hours gaurantees the other 48% shareholders will have is on the 10000 hours members board

Incorrect.

Is 10000hours controls the 52% then as noted in the document (within the rules noted) a simple majorty of the 48% can elect 1 director.

This will be to the board of St Mirren FC.

Only CIC members (individual, corporate and community) will be able to be elected to the CIC elected members board

10000hours CIC

[10000hours]

i think what's confusing the issue is the 10000 hours document doesn't make it clear that there are TWO boards being discussed

invest 10k in 10000 hours

and hey presto are back on the board!.............. but probably only a real cynic would think that, and also a cynic would probably flag up that any profit made by 10000 hours can be paid to community members

This could happen.

Anyone that choses to become a member in any of the categories can stand for election, but they have to be elected in the process there is no "hey presto" about it, no automatic right of sitting on either the 10000hours board or the club board.

10000housr CIC

[10000hours]

Although Atkinson said he hasn't been taking a wage and wouldn't take a wage from being on the board - did he mean the members board or the club board?

I'm unaware if the current board are taking a wage from the club or are doing it for free?

No wages will be paid to Atkinson from either the members board or the club board, and none have been paid historically

The current board take no wages from the club

[steve_the_saint]

the more i have considered this the more it raises concerns:

quote 10000 hours doc: "How will this be funded?

The upfront funding of the share purchase will come from organisations that

specically lend to CIC type ventures. The funding to repay any debt will come

from two main areas. Firstly, the enhanced trading of the assets of St Mirren FC

- an area all recognise as under-utilised, especially since the stadium move.

Trading can be increased by using new social enterprise businesses operated

between 10000hours and a number of the community partners. The second area

is the membership scheme of the CIC."

on the inception of this CiC, the membership puts Nothing into the club. it accesses funding and LOANS to pay £2m to the SG consortium it then states its funding will come from the membership and the trading of St Mirren Football Club (supporters money)

as a CiC it can distribute profits to the community groups (seems a £500 stake might be a wee gold mine), it can pay its directors, those directors can be some/all of the existing ones selling their shares... And at no point is it committed to or has indicated it will put money into the club!

that leaves the supporters and shareholders as the only people putting money in, but any community group, corporate group or directors can take it out....... so the risks are all with saints fans and current shareholders

jeez why didn't i think of this? the selling shareholders and the CiC directors are laughing all the way to the bank as the funding to pay any debt comes from the club and the membership of CiC

It states its funding comes from the enhanced trading of smfc, ie, the new business it will attract thanks to the cic - birthdays, weddings, funerals etc. No supporters money there.

And as has been mentioned recently, can and won't are two different things. If anyone was getting paid which would go against the whole ethos and morals of what the cic is apparently standing for, then a mass exodus of members would occur and the cic would collapse. Also, there would be nothing preventing yourself from nomination as a member of the board, or any other cic member, which would make it highly unlikely that any directors would do anything to jeopardize their position ie, take a wage.

This isn't a traditional takeover where the new owner promises x amount to the team budget, its a transfer of ownership from 5 saints fans to over 300 saints fans. And if its successful, in future any money the cic makes can be transferred to the team budget.

It can't be successful without the community being interested, that includes yourself, for the price of a pint a week. If you don't like it, then you don't renew. But the initial uptake is important as it generates more interest, ie more members, which in the future can help the team!

[St. Sid]

Don't take it to heart or even half seriously, Fras.

Sid's still a Shellic fan at heart. Once a bhoy always a bhoy. He waxes lyrical on here about 'tolerance' being a Buddie trait (and, on that, I'd agree with him) but Sid just can't bring himself to practise what we preach: Buddie tolerance.

If Sid was Buddie-tolerant, he'd have been able to respect your pov - which I do. As you noted in your post - open debate is why we come on to a Buddie forum, such as this. And on such an important topic EVERY ANGLE SHOULD BE SCRUTINISED and by as sceptical a critic as possible.

If Sid was Buddie-tolerant, he'd have been able to respect the energy and passion that the supras bring to every game and would support them in singing, standing, bannering .... whatever they wanted to do as best they could, and whether or not he thought it misconceived. They are Buddies doing their thing, he should be tolerant of that. Sadly, he has been as spendthrift as usual with his spleenish words of attack on them - some of them only 12 or 13 years old... and yet I would bet that even they are longer-standing Saints supporters than the bhoy Sid is.

If Sid was Buddie-tolerant, he'd have been able to respect that McCluskey, when seen on a hidden camera celebrating a televised excellent goal by a c*ltic player, was acting according to his nature - and this was a merely a foolish error of judgement by a young man who could do great things for St Mirren. But Sid couldn't do that, he couldn't be tolerant, indeed he led the lynch-mob.

So dinnae fash yersel, Big Fras. It's only Sid: one day he may be one of us. Till then, let's be tolerant.

Good post bluto and delivered in typical B&WArmy spirit - a good old fashioned character assassination that has made B&WArmy what is today - amen to that. It is also a character assassination made in the open forum with gile and humour - again a trait that has made B&WArmy what it is today. The beauty of posting character assassinations on an open forum is that people get a chance to respond. Where that falls down is where a poster choses to launch an character assassination against a key member of our club via the PM system of B&WArmy - not a character assassination of an online alias but a key member of our club. When sent by PM with a message that the character assassination does not allow the slander to be challenged in the open forum or the spreader of the bile to be challenged by other forum members. Sending such a character assassination to Internet aliases of people that the rumour spreader has never even met is questionable judgement - having received such a PM and explained that I wasn't interested the dafty continues to slabber their bile. Again highly questionable judgement and not reasonable behaviour in my very humble opinion. However, I digress and will leave it to Big Fras to explain what he is up to with that nonsense. Not having met him I am assured he is a decent enough chap and a good supporter who may just have got over emotional about something. As I said, tongue in cheek character assassinations on public forums are good fun - by PM, in earnest and not sent directly to the character being assassinated is utter w@nkery and I make no apologies for being intolerant of that.

You make some good points about the OF being partial to in fighting as well as their obvious hatred of each other - couldn't agree more. Are you still okay with Muslim St Mirren supporters.

[bud77]

We would be delighted to hear from you regarding your own ideas.

No one at 10000hours has claimed that their is only one way of doing this and if there are people wo can contribute ideas that can make a difference then we would be delighted to hear them.

Please either post your ideas on here or mail to [email protected].

We would also like to hear of your experience at other Community Sports Clubs incase we can learn anything, which ones have you been involved with?

I'd like to see St Mirren become a focal point of football in Renfrewshire, I think one way this could be started is to put up a trophy in a cup format at say under 14 youth level with the final played at Ralston or even Greenhill Road. I think the benefits of this could be spotting potential talent that has been missed or just adding to the gate in future years. I also think it could be a good idea to offer 'refresher' courses to youth coaches on say a 3 month basis to keep the coaches up to speed on new ideas and to promote goodwill between the club and the youth teams.

[St. Sid]

I'd like to see St Mirren become a focal point of football in Renfrewshire, I think one way this could be started is to put up a trophy in a cup format at say under 14 youth level with the final played at Ralston or even Greenhill Road. I think the benefits of this could be spotting potential talent that has been missed or just adding to the gate in future years. I also think it could be a good idea to offer 'refresher' courses to youth coaches on say a 3 month basis to keep the coaches up to speed on new ideas and to promote goodwill between the club and the youth teams.

Green dot for that one. It would be great for St Mirren to be the focal point for all the eareas young footballers with aspiring to sign for us. Perhaps allowing them rotational access to the Ralston facilities would let them see what their future at Saints could be like too.

Taking that a step further, I would like to see the St Mirren brand taking a lead for initiatives outside football too. Renfrewshire has the lowest take up of social fund grants in the whole of Scotland. We just aren't very good at it as the facilities in our area proves. The old SIP areas benefited from European funding, but outside that we have been shite at accessing funds.

With the CIC in place, St Mirren could become a mechanism for accessing grants for other initiatives in the area. Suddenly, a group wanting to develop a five-a-side pitch in their local park for example could utilise the funding expertise of the CIC to access their funding rather than having to deal with some overpaid lazy c"ntcil f"k that couldn't give a shit about our area......suddenly we could have a St Mirren CIC branded pitch in Johnstone or Linwood for example. I would love to see a group of kids taking their proposals to the St Mirren run Youth Bus and being supported by the club / CIC through to realisation.

The possibilities this ownership model presents could be something a wee bit special well beyond just the footballing side, which will be improved as a given in my humble opinion.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Good post bluto and delivered in typical B&WArmy spirit - a good old fashioned character assassination that has made B&WArmy what is today - amen to that. It is also a character assassination made in the open forum with gile and humour - again a trait that has made B&WArmy what it is today. The beauty of posting character assassinations on an open forum is that people get a chance to respond. Where that falls down is where a poster choses to launch an character assassination against a key member of our club via the PM system of B&WArmy - not a character assassination of an online alias but a key member of our club. When sent by PM with a message that the character assassination does not allow the slander to be challenged in the open forum or the spreader of the bile to be challenged by other forum members. Sending such a character assassination to Internet aliases of people that the rumour spreader has never even met is questionable judgement - having received such a PM and explained that I wasn't interested the dafty continues to slabber their bile. Again highly questionable judgement and not reasonable behaviour in my very humble opinion. However, I digress and will leave it to Big Fras to explain what he is up to with that nonsense. Not having met him I am assured he is a decent enough chap and a good supporter who may just have got over emotional about something. As I said, tongue in cheek character assassinations on public forums are good fun - by PM, in earnest and not sent directly to the character being assassinated is utter w@nkery and I make no apologies for being intolerant of that.

You make some good points about the OF being partial to in fighting as well as their obvious hatred of each other - couldn't agree more. Are you still okay with Muslim St Mirren supporters.

Sid your posts are like novals these day's. You need to 1= compress them 2 = Or get back on the bottle

[St. Sid]

Sid your posts are like novals these day's. You need to 1= compress them 2 = Or get back on the bottle

I invested in Mavis Beacon Teaching Typing software...however I about to invest in voice recognition software as it will result in even more and longer posts, plus the typos will drive bluto mental.

[bluto]

You make some good points about the OF being partial to in fighting as well as their obvious hatred of each other - couldn't agree more.

Another lie. I didn't make that point.

Sid your posts are like novals these day's. You need to 1= compress them 2 = Or get back on the bottle

I invested in Mavis Beacon Teaching Typing software...however I about to invest in voice recognition software as it will result in even more and longer posts, plus the typos will drive bluto mental.

No, they won't.

[St. Sid]

No, they won't.

Old vest day bill

[Drew]

We believe that it will grant you significant influence and we look forward to furnishing you with infomation at the public meetings.

I look forward to it too.

I appreciate that there is a limit as to what detail you can provide in a 12 page information booklet.

[Stu]

If 10000hours does not get awarded either the total funding needed or the level of support required from individual, corporate and community members to fullfil the business plan then 10000hours will not complete the deal.

Community interest Companies only work if the community is interested.

So if the application to the Scottish Investment Fund (or whatever the Daily Mail article claimed it was) is unsuccessful, the whole thing falls apart? If it is successful, how will the loan be repaid? The doucment claims the increased income from the club's assets will help pay for the loan and lead to an increased footballing budget - must be a fairly big increase!

What do the community organisations get for their £500 a year? I'm guessing they must be getting at least that much back or it wouldn't be worth their while, so where is that money coming from?

How many corporate people have signed up so far. Is the earlier post suggesting that these are merely the five selling board members, Tony's Taxis (or whatever it's called), JD Sports and other companies with whom people at the club already have some sort of personal involvement anywhere near the mark? Fairly easy to draw that conclusion from the document.

[FTOF]

I'd like to see St Mirren become a focal point of football in Renfrewshire, I think one way this could be started is to put up a trophy in a cup format at say under 14 youth level with the final played at Ralston or even Greenhill Road. I think the benefits of this could be spotting potential talent that has been missed or just adding to the gate in future years. I also think it could be a good idea to offer 'refresher' courses to youth coaches on say a 3 month basis to keep the coaches up to speed on new ideas and to promote goodwill between the club and the youth teams.

I believe there already is a "St.Mirren cup" competition for schools football.

Here it is - http://www.panddsfa.co.uk/

Not sure how much input the club actually have in the competition nowadays.

[FTOF]

How many corporate people have signed up so far. Is the earlier post suggesting that these are merely the five selling board members, Tony's Taxis (or whatever it's called), JD Sports and other companies with whom people at the club already have some sort of personal involvement anywhere near the mark? Fairly easy to draw that conclusion from the document.

It's Compass private hire.They've only got their name on our strips.

[Tracy Barlow Loyal]

I invested in Mavis Beacon Teaching Typing software...

Ah, good old Mavis Beacon! That's what I used in my Computer Courses many moons ago. Good quality software that is.

[buddie172]

I keep wondering, what's in it for Atkinson? :ph34r:

[Bud the Baker]

Sorry to ask a question rather than answer one, but could you clarify why you think the club currently has £800,000 worth of debt?

10000hours CIC

£860k was the figure listed as owed by the club to various organizations in the last set of accounts (May 31, 2010).

In your information document you say

The unique situation the club is in means that every additional pound earned can be re-invested. There is no club debt, so there are no banks seeking their share of any additional revenues.

So has this debt been repayed or do you mean something different?

[Stu]

Perhaps another way to have increased community involvement would be to have women's football at the club. We could have a youth set-up at various age groups and they could progress on to a first team. Could potentially have hundreds of people involved at the club who weren't previously. Perhaps why that's why the person from Glasgow Ladies is involved.

[steve_the_saint]

£860k was the figure listed as owed by the club to various organizations in the last set of accounts (May 31, 2010).

In your information document you say

So has this debt been repayed or do you mean something different?

Really? And who were these organisations that we were in debt to ?

I thought it was actually a loss of that amount? And this was only because the new stadiums value had depreciated from brand new to .....2nd hand so to speak.

[Tracy Barlow Loyal]

Perhaps another way to have increased community involvement would be to have women's football at the club. We could have a youth set-up at various age groups and they could progress on to a first team. Could potentially have hundreds of people involved at the club who weren't previously. Perhaps why that's why the person from Glasgow Ladies is involved.

Great post.

[pozbaird]

Perhaps another way to have increased community involvement would be to have women's football at the club. We could have a youth set-up at various age groups and they could progress on to a first team. Could potentially have hundreds of people involved at the club who weren't previously. Perhaps why that's why the person from Glasgow Ladies is involved.

Agree with 'Tracey Barlow' - great idea. Hope you submit it for consideration Stu.