ADMITCHELL Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Killie are putting it to their fans......aberdeen are consulting with all of their fans as have Dundee United. They have not restricted it to a single organisation and especially not one that has just put in a conditional offer to take a controlling interest in the club, that have already started making noises about the business implications and how it could impact their bid progressing. All fans should get a vote on this. Aberdeen are not consulting with all their fans a survey of "the fans" was submitted to the board, I can asure you not all the fans were consulted or surveyed Dundee utd invited fans groups to a meeting are you trying to say that they represent all fans, so SMISA represents all fans for ST Mirren lets just ask them then. Have Killie laid out how they will ask the "Fans" Nope. Nice try but honestly you can do better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Aberdeen are not consulting with all their fans a survey of "the fans" was submitted to the board, I can asure you not all the fans were consulted or surveyed Dundee utd invited fans groups to a meeting are you trying to say that they represent all fans, so SMISA represents all fans for ST Mirren lets just ask them then. Have Killie laid out how they will ask the "Fans" Nope. Nice try but honestly you can do better They considered all of the representations made to them by all fans. Read their statements - they did not only act upon the wishes of a certain group of supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mc Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'm not David Mc......the CIC is a disaster waiting to happen. This latest nonsense is indicative of the bollox that will get a lot worse once it is up and running. We have 99% of the support SCREAMING!!!! for SMFC to make a statement that they will vote no. What do we get.......a lotta f'k'n nonsense whataboutery from people that are supposed to be leading fan ownership. The fans are absolutely clear on what they want the club to do. They have backed fan ownership to the tune of £1.5million of debt - wrongly in my humble opinion.....and they get whataboutery scaremongering about SKY. Why are these other clubs with large debts able to take fans views at face value and commit to a no vote? Why are they not spreading rumours about going into administration in 4/5 months? Fuxake, 10000 Hours appear to be arguing that 4 or 5 of these clubs will also be in administration....whilst these clubs appear to be committing to destroying themselves by voting no. Smell the shite coming from 10000 Hours. We had to take the imaginary two bidders at face value. Now we appear to have a different view from the rest of the SPL on the outcome of the a no vote. We get lots of shite scaremongering and yet no detail such as - how many 1877 club members are signed up. Did you actually read this before you posted. 99% oh really? The more hyperbolic, the less I believe. Once again what are you really going to do except sit behind a computer screen and produce industrial amounts of posts. You've had a lifetime to put a case together and win people over on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guthro Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Rangers are not important in this per se. Sky TV carry the keys. Sky won't comment publically on their position for fear of being seen to influence the vote. They will say nothing until after the vote and they know exactly what the position is with the SPL. If Rangers are out as I think they will be, then its realistic to assume Sky will want to re-negotiate their deal, but by how much is anyones guess. If they are the only show in town then it will be easy for them to squeeze. Put bluntly, if Sky was to walk away and leave the SPL with NO TV Revenue then we would be off our nut to want to buy the football club as it would be in administration itself within a few months. That is the harsh reality of what we are talking about in a doomsday scenario. I think it's more likely that SKY will re-negotiate if rangers are no longer an SPL club. That would lead to a reduction in the overall money the SPL get, but possibly not by a huge amount. Here's the thing that nobody seems to have talked about.... At present the old firm get the majority of the TV money. If rangers are no longer in the other SPL clubs can vote to change the idtiotic 11-1 vote. They get rid of that and then they can change the way the TV money is distributed to a fairer way amongst all 12 clubs. That way, wouldn't the hit amongst the other 10 clubs possibly not be as bad? After all currently the old firm take the majority of the cash. Change the distribution of the cash and our % of cash of a renogotiated TV deal might not be as bad. Pure speculation i admit, and i agree that it's right to wait until all the juggling balls have landed, but maybe things won't be as bad if rangers get (rightly) voted out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Banjos Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 JB - On point 2 I think you're wrong, if the vote on Newco remains with the consortium still in control of the club then the fans have no direct say. Fair enough, 'direct' say may not be quite correct but 1000 fans being consulted and then having those thoughts formally presented to the board...... I would say those views, in light of what's been happening at other SPL clubs, will hold considerable weight. As has been said before though, the 5 votes against Newco will probably have been confirmed by the time we are consulted anyway; it baffles me that people are now doing their best to link this vote to the CiC takeover. It's our misfortune that Rangers have imploded when this has been going on. Yes, we can punish them, put them out of the league for 3 years and enjoy it for a bit. So what though? We know they'll be back with their poison at some point. It's a short term victory. The real deal here is long term: a stable St Mirren FC into the 2020's and beyond. All we can do is wait to see what happens with the Sky money for season 2012/13 and that's completely out of our hands. The Newco vote is a side issue which will be done and dusted this time next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Did you actually read this before you posted. 99% oh really? The more hyperbolic, the less I believe. Once again what are you really going to do except sit behind a computer screen and produce industrial amounts of posts. You've had a lifetime to put a case together and win people over on here. Seems like you didn't read it and decided to stoop to my level. Look at the pish we've been presented with again today - back of a fag packet statement with no real information.......then we have the usual online team posting rumour after rumour about administration, just as we had high level spurious shite at the public meeting - followed up with nonsense about Angelo Massone - I asked the man - he has not now or ever so much as expressed an interest in buying St Mirren. We are told the club is in serious threat of going into administration. Where is the evidence to support this? Not a f'k'n bean of evidence has been provided - the only spurious number we have associated with scumgers not being in the SPL was in relation to a vote about the newco - £500K - guess what it came from 10000 Hours and not SMFC. If our club is seriously heading for administration we should get more information than we have had now - once again we get soundbites rather than facts. Where is the breakdown of the losses that will be made? If you've got them post them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) I'm sorry Div, but to say that 'the cold hard facts' are that we'd be in administration within months without Sky's money, is frankly scandalous, and IMO without solid grounding. Stewart Gilmour and the current BOD (assuming of course the CiC isn't accepted) are shrewd operators on this level. They have operated under tight budgets and circumstances before. They will again. If the doomsday scenario which you preach comes to pass, then it wont just hurt us, it will hurt the whole of Scottish football in the short term, therefore no-one will be left behind. We are in a pretty good place in that our financial situation is a lot better then 95% of Scottish clubs. I think every single Saint and fan of every club in this nation has accepted that an SPL without Rangers and full Sky money will hurt to a degree financially in the short term, but long term will allow for important issues to be raised. League reconstruction, a potential pyramid system, the removal of a draconian 11-1 voting process which has allowed the former OF to have a stranglehold over our country's game financially as well as politically for decades. Regardless of what happens from here on out, the face of the sport in this country has been altered permanently. It's now a straight up choice: Accept them back in, keep the Sky cash cow milking financially for a horribly disproportionate cut of the cake and allow the status quo to play out until the end of time, always accepting that no matter how bad the crime, no matter how badly sporting integrity has been mistreated, no matter how much disdain we are held in.....we'll always accept them back like a downtrodden beaten spouse who is told so often 'you can't live without me' that they have had it ingrained into their psyche and genuinely believe it. Allow for the continuation of the 11-1 vote which will see every other club in this country without a leg to stand on forever. or Vote no. Maintain our integrity and our pride. Refuse to accept that we're doomed without one club in our midst and that Sky TV has become the be all and end all of football clubs in this nation in the short space of 3 years. Put the power to change our sport for the better in the long term directly into the hands of EVERY club in the country. Cut our cloth to suit and allow every other side in the SPL to find it's feet again, promote exciting young talent in various squads on lesser wages rather than league one journeymen who want exploit Scottish football as the cash cow it is. Bring more teams into a league that is now free of the shackles of Sky's demands for four Old Firm games a season which has been contractually agreed at the expense of making a league so dull and turgid that we've become also rans, outcast in our own national league. This isn't about revenge. It isn't even about putting the boot into Zombie Rangers for the sake of it (although it's fun) as we know they'll be back in some guise sooner or later. It's also not about money. It's about giving every team in the SPL and indeed Scottish football, a fair crack at the whip. A better chance to build from the grassroots up. With Rangers or their Zombie incarnation in the SPL that will never happen. Therefore, an emphatic No to NewCo, no to Scaremongering, yes to sporting integrity. Long live the Saints. Long live Scottish football. Edited June 22, 2012 by djchapsticks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 This all makes perfect business sense to me and gives me a lot of faith in the CIC as fit and proper people to run our club. As div has repeatedly said, why would anyone purchase as business that could go down the pan? It is well worth waiting till we see for certain what Sky does after Rangares are booted out the league. It is likely Sky will NOT pull out but it is NOT certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXBBud Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 They have Stu - they have consulted with their fans and taken on board all views presented to them not just the fans groups. There's a thread on the fishal site covering the topic of the fans vote and there's more than one fan not happy that they will be excluded from the vote and that includes SMFC shareholders. (that points not just for you Stu - I am expecting the usual "you're no a real fan anyway" bollox type post to arrive any time soon.....it usually come after accusations of trying to divide the support, which ironically were made when I supported the CIC too. Anyone who feels excluded from the "No to Newco"vote needs to think about the position they are in. Many fans of the SPL10 have made their thoughts know to the clubs they support in the hope of persuading the board and ultimately the Chairman to vote "No" when the time comes. Here's the rub though. As far as St Mirren goes the board have said they will consult with the membership of the CIC as it will be them who will hold the majority shareholding in the club should the deal be completed. The board has not said they will be a proxy for the CIC, simply that they will consult; that is not the same as agree with. That also does not mean that those Buddies that are not CIC members are considered any less of a fan of the club and they are at liberty to flood the Inbox of Mr Gilmour and other board members with their opinions on how to vote. However they have excluded themselves from being eligible to vote by not taking the opportunity to share in the ownership of the club. Need to buy a ticket if they want to enter the raffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 The decision to wait on the SKY situation is the right one - I would wait a helluva lot longer than 2-3 weeks though. If the club is in real danger then surely this is the wrong time for fans to be piling their hard earned into paying off an unecessary debt. In 4/5 months if the worst came to pass, wouldn't that be the time for our money to be used to save the club rather than piss away £1.5Million on a retirement fund for the consortium and a bonus ball for some shareholders. Why not take up SMiSA's initial offer to hold the d.d. money in trust for 4/5 months until the ramifications are clear. If it all goes tits up the consortium will be in no position to demand £1.5Million. And we'll already have cash in the bank on top of SMiSA's £50K to weigh in and do what we all really from this - ensure the club survives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Need to buy a ticket if they want to enter the raffle. Is that 10000 Hours beig community-minded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikaelRenfrum Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Does anyone know how much money St Mirren get per year from Sky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Having read everything Div has said today, I appreciate there is a risk involved. But, that's life. Just because I'd be broke if I didn't rob the bank doesn't mean that I was 'right' to rob the bank. That may seam slightly simplistic for what is an extremely complex situation but the principle is the same. I cannot and will not support the club or 10000hrs if they make the wrong decision. There are plenty forms of entertainment out there worthy of my money than what would be a morally bankrupt football league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Fair enough, 'direct' say may not be quite correct but 1000 fans being consulted and then having those thoughts formally presented to the board. Why not put it to the shareholders and season ticket holders as well? Strange that at this stage it's going exclusively to the members of the CIC have haven't parted with a penny. Disappointed we haven't struck a deal yet but i must be honest, I'm getting to the stage where I can't be bothered reading the updates. If it happens, it happens. Edited June 22, 2012 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXBBud Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Is that 10000 Hours beig community-minded? No, that's me stating the obvious for the benefit of those who choose to not see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure what the fuss is about the vote by CIC members. As far as I'm aware, The board have only promised to take this into consideration - the same thing SG has said to various members of this very website who have bothered to write/email him about the Newco situation. The only attraction of the CIC is that they can collate a larger number of fans results into a block. I'd agree that season ticket holders and share holders should be included if possible, but perhaps there is no database of email addresses available for this to get it done quickly. I'd urge anyone who feels strongly about this to get I touch with the club and let them know. Edit: bloody iPad. Edited June 22, 2012 by Eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 As I have said already, St.Mirren voting no makes hee-haw difference to the problem we, the club and the selling consortium faces which is uncertainty over this seasons SPL revenues. Until we know what Sky are doing we are treading water. That is the long and short of it. I'm quite alarmed you aren't understanding this. I think if I had given my 8 year old son the information I've given you today he would have understood it. As usual you are intent on playing games and damaging both the club and the CIC at the same time. So why the hell put the offer in in the first place its all a load of bollox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 No, that's me stating the obvious..... And yet completely missing the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'm not sure what the fuss is about the vote by CIC members. As far as I'm aware, The board have only promised to take this into consideration - the same thing SG has said to various members of this very website who have bothered to write/email him about the Newco situation. The only attraction of the CIC is that they can collate a larger number of fans results into a block. I'd agree that season ticket holders and share holders should be included if possible, but perhaps there is no database of email addresses available for this to get it done quickly. Id urge anyone who feels strongly about this to get I touch withtheclub and let the know. Spot on Eddy....... There are two very different issues coming out of this..... Issue 1 about the vote is not that important. I'm embarrassed for 10000 Hours for trying to make it a big selling point - the worrying this is the communication they are wrapping around it about £500K losses / administration for SMFC in attempts fo garner support for finance over integrity. They aren't even providing decent information to support their claims - basically a load of wank - have they spent 10000 Hours training to deliver nothing but scaremongering soundbites. Issue 2 is the more serious. The have put conditions on their offer. Conditions that appear to be driven by concern about the project by one of its funders. Whilst Bii have had the advantage of seeing all the finances the fans haven't. The fans have been fed soundbites like the social funders have reviewed the financies / business case / constitution, etc, etc, etc.....and now here they are making a conditional offer. How the f"k can they make a conditional offer when the fans weren't supplied with an ounce of detail other than scaremongering about two mystery bidders. 10000 Hours are displaying the sort of transparency and integrity you'd associate with Craig Whyte. It is about time we started getting real information and all this scaremongering rumour pish was put to bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXBBud Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 And yet completely missing the point. Not me that's missing the point, Sid. THE BOARD are the ones who have said they will consult with CIC as the likely future majority shareholders. The vote is in the interests of all football fans, but the vote is made by those involved in ownership of the clubs, simple, end of. The current board of SMFC has stated that they will consult with the CIC but I am sure that as every other board/Chairman appears to be consulting with or at least being mindful of the fan base of their clubs i see no reason to doubt that Mr Gilmour will be any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) They considered all of the representations made to them by all fans. Read their statements - they did not only act upon the wishes of a certain group of supporters. So how many fans were angry enough to write to them demanding they vote yes Sid? There's a flaw in your logic. At the moment the only fans making the noise are the ones who don't want Rangers anywhere near the SPL. Sid I have to say I don't understand your point about how 10000hours are trying to rally fans to vote yes. All they have said is that there will be a members vote. I hope they give more information so everyone can make an informed choice but it would be a damned impressive turn around if they went from 97% saying no to one of the most hated sides in Scottish history to 75% never mind having the majority vote yes. St Mirren fans are stoopid but even I don't think they are that daft. Edited June 22, 2012 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Spot on Eddy....... There are two very different issues coming out of this..... Issue 1 about the vote is not that important. I'm embarrassed for 10000 Hours for trying to make it a big selling point - the worrying this is the communication they are wrapping around it about £500K losses / administration for SMFC in attempts fo garner support for finance over integrity. They aren't even providing decent information to support their claims - basically a load of wank - have they spent 10000 Hours training to deliver nothing but scaremongering soundbites. Issue 2 is the more serious. The have put conditions on their offer. Conditions that appear to be driven by concern about the project by one of its funders. Whilst Bii have had the advantage of seeing all the finances the fans haven't. The fans have been fed soundbites like the social funders have reviewed the financies / business case / constitution, etc, etc, etc.....and now here they are making a conditional offer. How the f"k can they make a conditional offer when the fans weren't supplied with an ounce of detail other than scaremongering about two mystery bidders. 10000 Hours are displaying the sort of transparency and integrity you'd associate with Craig Whyte. It is about time we started getting real information and all this scaremongering rumour pish was put to bed. Issue 2 Sid - what if the conditions on the offer aren't that Sky pulling the plug is a deal breaker - just that it becomes a point to renegotiate the terms and the price since that would allow some of the 10000hours member subs to be used to prop up the team for a year until contracts can be renewed? Hypothetical, but surely it is something the buyers should be factoring in to their negotiations. Edited June 22, 2012 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Banjos Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Why not put it to the shareholders and season ticket holders as well? Strange that at this stage it's going exclusively to the members of the CIC have haven't parted with a penny. Fair point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmurray24 Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 I can not recall the figures that Saints got from Sky, but on Radio Rangers and Celtic (radio Clyde) Mr Celtic said that the SKY deal was broken up as 81% to the old firm and the rest shared out with the other 10, its the money from the league positions that make the difference in final payouts. So things might not be as bad as some are trying to make out as it stands just now to make it easy if someone gets the figures the 10 clubs get 2% each of the sky money.............. Without Rankers each club will then have an extra share of the 40.5% so we should have a 6% share (almost) ... And if the 10 are going to sort out unfair split we could get more, so the difference may not be as bad as it seems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXBBud Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Fair point. ... but how many of those are CIC members also? I'm guessing, but I would suspect that a good number of those two groups will have signed up for CIC, not all, but a good number. Totally agree that ST holders that are not in the CIC should have a say, but wouldn't shareholders already have the opportunity to vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.