BoWSaint Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 As for claims that the UK government is cosy with Putin, here's a story that will put your mind at rest http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570335/Former-British-Ambassador-Moscow-warns-Russia-invaded-Ukraine-difficult-avoid-going-war.html Ahh, the Daily Mail. The best way to put your mind at rest. Quality journalism full of facts and objective views........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoWSaint Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Can you say that with certainty? New state democracies have an awfy bad habit of suddenly becoming autonomous dictatorships and we've all seen the way the SNP and the Yes Campaign operates when it comes to speaking out against government policy. After a No vote Scots will still be able to vote for an alternative government at Westminster in a democracy that has worked for hundreds of years. Have you forgotten how that works? Scottish votes haven't influenced who got into power since the war. You could take out all Scottish votes and the election winner would be the same. If it is about getting someone in power that Scotland actually votes for then the only way to achieve this is by voting yes in September. The Scottish government have put everything down in the White Paper so it is there in black and white for them to stand by. I really want to see a similar document from the NO campaign stating exactly what will happen in the result of a NO vote. We keep getting the "uncertainty" line from you and other NO activists but nothing is certain after a NO vote, especially EU membership which the Tories are actively trying to remove the UK from. I haven't read through this thread at all, just skimmed the last few pages. I was a firm NO supporter until I started independently reading up on issues instead of being fed whatever info the BBC chose to feed me. I am now fairly convinced that not only could Scotland be an independent country, but they also should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoWSaint Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 A very entertaining viewing if you haven't already seen it. 6 short clips excellently put together to demonstrate the independence debate. Here's the first part. You will find links to the rest at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Scottish votes haven't influenced who got into power since the war. You could take out all Scottish votes and the election winner would be the same. If it is about getting someone in power that Scotland actually votes for then the only way to achieve this is by voting yes in September. The Scottish government have put everything down in the White Paper so it is there in black and white for them to stand by. I really want to see a similar document from the NO campaign stating exactly what will happen in the result of a NO vote. We keep getting the "uncertainty" line from you and other NO activists but nothing is certain after a NO vote, especially EU membership which the Tories are actively trying to remove the UK from. I haven't read through this thread at all, just skimmed the last few pages. I was a firm NO supporter until I started independently reading up on issues instead of being fed whatever info the BBC chose to feed me. I am now fairly convinced that not only could Scotland be an independent country, but they also should. f**k off - have you read the white paper. I tried to. Apart from the numerous spelling and grammatical mistakes it is nothing more than an uncosted wish list. Theres little fact, or evidence that anything within it could ever be delivered. And if you think political parties are good at sticking to what they put on a piece of paper prior to a vote you are clearly more foolish and deluded than I could ever imagine. You really should look at the evidence - and the huge Scottish fiscal deficit which came from Alex Salmond et al's complete over estimating of North Sea Oil prices and tax revenues. Over inflated estimates that are used in the White Paper. An action that really does mean that the SNP are taking us into a referendum at a time when Scotland IS actually being subsidised by the rest of the UK Edited May 1, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 f**k off - have you read the white paper. I tried to. Apart from the numerous spelling and grammatical mistakes it is nothing more than an uncosted wish list. Theres little fact, or evidence that anything within it could ever be delivered. And if you think political parties are good at sticking to what they put on a piece of paper prior to a vote you are clearly more foolish and deluded than I could ever imagine. You really should look at the evidence - and the huge Scottish fiscal deficit which came from Alex Salmond et al's complete over estimating of North Sea Oil prices and tax revenues. Over inflated estimates that are used in the White Paper. An action that really does mean that the SNP are taking us into a referendum at a time when Scotland IS actually being subsidised by the rest of the UK FFS man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Saint Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 f**k off - have you read the white paper. I tried to. Apart from the numerous spelling and grammatical mistakes it is nothing more than an uncosted wish list. Theres little fact, or evidence that anything within it could ever be delivered. And if you think political parties are good at sticking to what they put on a piece of paper prior to a vote you are clearly more foolish and deluded than I could ever imagine. You really should look at the evidence - and the huge Scottish fiscal deficit which came from Alex Salmond et al's complete over estimating of North Sea Oil prices and tax revenues. Over inflated estimates that are used in the White Paper. An action that really does mean that the SNP are taking us into a referendum at a time when Scotland IS actually being subsidised by the rest of the UK complete and utter meltdown is getting closer and closer....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 complete and utter meltdown is getting closer and closer....... Indeed it is. Great, isn't it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madball Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Indeed it is. Great, isn't it I'm envisaging at some point soon a DVD player will be launched at a representative from the Yes campaign from a portly pipe fitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 I'm envisaging at some point soon a DVD player will be launched at a representative from the Yes campaign from a portly pipe fitter. I can't shake off the image of the demise of Mr Creosote from Monty Python's Meaning of Life.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 complete and utter meltdown is getting closer and closer....... Ah, ok well take a deep breath and step away from the computer then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoWSaint Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 The worst estimation of North Sea oil has been by the UK government since the 70s. Wasn't it supposed to have run out by now! And what have we got to show for it? Hee haw. Whereas other countries have set up an oil fund to enrich the country. Now every Norwegian is effectively a millionaire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Only in Noggy kroner though, not real money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 I can't shake off the image of the demise of Mr Creosote from Monty Python's Meaning of Life.... "Waffer thin mint monsieur" Dicko? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 The worst estimation of North Sea oil has been by the UK government since the 70s. Wasn't it supposed to have run out by now! And what have we got to show for it? Hee haw. Whereas other countries have set up an oil fund to enrich the country. Now every Norwegian is effectively a millionaire. No-one in government has ever said that oil would "run out". You only need to know the history of Oil Springs in Canada to know that won't happen any time soon. The point at when it stops being economically viable to continue to extract it is what is in question. Oil extraction technology has continued to advance and that has kept the current oil fields financially viable past the point of some of the wildest speculation in the 1970's. Most people think there are fairly large oil reserves on the Continental Shelf in the Atlantic Ocean but environmentalists are opposed to drilling there. Of course the Nationalists have been busy kidding on they are environmentalists themselves putting up those silly windmills everywhere and ignoring coal and nuclear options and telling Scots that they want to get rid of Trident cause it's bad - yet in the same breath they'll tell you we need to drill holes everywhere to see if we can find oil or gas which we will then sell at a far higher price than it currently trades for on the international markets. It's a strange kind of hypocrisy but it's so typical of the Yes Campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Coal wasn't ignored, the industry was destroyed along with communities in large areas of Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Someone sent me a wee post from something called buzzfeed - I'm sure the young hipsters will be aware of it. http://www.buzzfeed.com/youdecide2014/scotland-the-uk-10-myths-10-facts-oykn It appears to be a normal post and its not until you reach the end of the post that you notice a link to the uk.gov scottish referendum webpage, There is however no mention of who posted - its also on teh community pages where there isnt really any formal censorship. It has however been "shared" by tory special advisors and various gov accounts like the MOD and Downing St facebook account and social media is on fire with claims that it originated from the uk Government, more specifically the scottish office... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 I see good old Alex was backslapping mad Vlad. I see salmond was bitchslapping the "opposition" at FMQ this afternoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 You'll not be saying that when Alex invites mad Vlad's tanks to come over. You're not much of a fisherman are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Someone sent me a wee post from something called buzzfeed - I'm sure the young hipsters will be aware of it. http://www.buzzfeed.com/youdecide2014/scotland-the-uk-10-myths-10-facts-oykn It appears to be a normal post and its not until you reach the end of the post that you notice a link to the uk.gov scottish referendum webpage, There is however no mention of who posted - its also on teh community pages where there isnt really any formal censorship. It has however been "shared" by tory special advisors and various gov accounts like the MOD and Downing St facebook account and social media is on fire with claims that it originated from the uk Government, more specifically the scottish office... I don't get your point or why anyone would be excited about it. Every point is correct and the Yes Campaign hasn't managed to scotch any of them with any degree of certainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 I don't get your point or why anyone would be excited about it. Every point is correct and the Yes Campaign hasn't managed to scotch any of them with any degree of certainty. 'scotch' any of them? Tee hee! Guid yin (if you had meant it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoWSaint Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 No country has ever voted against independence. Could we be the first?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 No country has ever voted against independence. Could we be the first?! Not strictly a country, however , I believe the province of Quebec has said no , to self governance , twice. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 No-one in government has ever said that oil would "run out". You only need to know the history of Oil Springs in Canada to know that won't happen any time soon. The point at when it stops being economically viable to continue to extract it is what is in question. Oil extraction technology has continued to advance and that has kept the current oil fields financially viable past the point of some of the wildest speculation in the 1970's. Most people think there are fairly large oil reserves on the Continental Shelf in the Atlantic Ocean but environmentalists are opposed to drilling there. Of course the Nationalists have been busy kidding on they are environmentalists themselves putting up those silly windmills everywhere and ignoring coal and nuclear options and telling Scots that they want to get rid of Trident cause it's bad - yet in the same breath they'll tell you we need to drill holes everywhere to see if we can find oil or gas which we will then sell at a far higher price than it currently trades for on the international markets. It's a strange kind of hypocrisy but it's so typical of the Yes Campaign. What do you mean 'IF' ? Surves have already been done which shows there is oil ( within Scotland's waters ) BP in particular have found a large oil and Gas field in the outer Clyde. As for trident who the hell wants nuclear weapons on their door step. Are you that crazy , saying that you have proved it time and time again Stuart. Can see you have something up stairs in your head problem is your brain dose not know how to put it all together. Ok you can put your argument forward to stay in the UK but deal in facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 No country has ever voted against independence. Could we be the first?! No country that has had independace has asked or regretted getting their Independence. No doubt Stuart will pull something out of fresh that has become the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 No country that has had independace has asked or regretted getting their Independence. No doubt Stuart will pull something out of fresh that has become the norm. And? If there is a no vote then that means that Scotland won't have asked for independence. Are there any countries that didn't want independence regretted getting it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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