The Referendum Thread

[thepaisleypanda]

Today I was in my car on the phone when I thought my radio was coming through the hands free making it difficult for me to be hear and be heard by the person I was on the phone to.

The person I was speaking to said he could hardly hear me due to the music.

I discover it was a white van covered in YES campaign stickers blasting out the Proclaimers.

I think I just came off the fence today.

What twatery.

That must have been AWFUL for you - poor wee soul!

Imagine people having the cheek to express their views. At least you have the BBC for your solace.

[Stuart Dickson]

I'm going to miss the referendum debate once the Yes Campaign has been well and truly trounced. The daily meltdown from the Nastis is getting funnier and funnier. I missed the newspaper reports at the weekend that Alex Salmond has now declared that there is no Plan B on currency. Instead he's announced that if Scotland don't get the currency union they want with the Rest of the UK, they will default on their national debt. Quite how that's going to get an Independent Scotland into the EU is anyone's guess but they certainly won't be allowed anywhere near the Euro if the newly independent country is willing to use defaulting on National Debt so freely when it comes to any sort of negotiations.

Similarly if you are left setting up your own new currency after Independence, how do you think world banking organisations will view Scotland if the first government of the new countrys first action is to default on money it owes? There is no doubt the countries credit rating would fall through the floor and there would be little to no opportunity to borrow money, never mind borrow it at the current cheap rates the UK enjoys.

Then I found out that John Swinney - reminiscent of Aldolf Hitler in 1930's Germany - has pledged full employment in Scotland by 2030. For the record the only country anywhere in the world to currently claim they have "full employment" is North Korea. How is he going to do this? Well apparently cutting corporation tax and trying to make unions work more closely with employers will be the way to achieve this. So the rich getting richer and poor getting trampled on, eh?

Finally in another wee fun fact on the day Nicola Sturgeon was bemoaning the unfairness of food banks and claiming they are all the fault of the Westminster Government, it has emerged that Alex Salmond, in April, was lording it up on yet another five day junket to the US with his wife Moira. Last time he lost a pile of money that remains unaccounted for, this time round he blew £3,000 of taxpayers money PER DAY on transport and accommodation ALONE!!!!! Their accommodation was the £720 per night Essex House Hotel which comes with 24 hour butler service, and views over Central Park. He's claimed the trip was to promote Scotland in the US - but that's hard to imagine since he had absolutely no meetings whilst he was out there.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

That must have been AWFUL for you - poor wee soul!

Imagine people having the cheek to express their views. At least you have the BBC for your solace.

That's not expressing their view - that's ramming their view and their musical taste down your throat. Sadly it's an all too common trait that appears in Nationalists these days.

[Edinbuddie]

Sssssssshhhhhhhhh!

[shull]

Brian Soutar has donated one million pounds to the SNP.

[thepaisleypanda]

That's not expressing their view - that's ramming their view.....down your throat.

Like you do here on a daily basis?

how are you getting on with The Wee Blue Book?

[Stuart Dickson]

Brian Soutar has donated one million pounds to the SNP.

To the SNP or to the Yes Campaign Shull? The reason I ask is that Pat Kane is on the Yes Campaign advisory board but only on the proviso that the Campaign refuse to accept any money from Brian Soutar who he describes as a pernicious influence on Scottish Life. Soutar previously spent £1m funding a doomed referendum on Section 28 to block government policy on gay rights.

[Stuart Dickson]

Like you do here on a daily basis?

how are you getting on with The Wee Blue Book?

Refusing to read it. Campbell receives per hit funding on his website. I won't be going anywhere near it - and I would suggest all others stop this prick from profiting from his disgusting views too.

[BoWSaint]

I'm going to miss the referendum debate once the Yes Campaign has been well and truly trounced. The daily meltdown from the Nastis is getting funnier and funnier. I missed the newspaper reports at the weekend that Alex Salmond has now declared that there is no Plan B on currency. Instead he's announced that if Scotland don't get the currency union they want with the Rest of the UK, they will default on their national debt. Quite how that's going to get an Independent Scotland into the EU is anyone's guess but they certainly won't be allowed anywhere near the Euro if the newly independent country is willing to use defaulting on National Debt so freely when it comes to any sort of negotiations.

Similarly if you are left setting up your own new currency after Independence, how do you think world banking organisations will view Scotland if the first government of the new countrys first action is to default on money it owes? There is no doubt the countries credit rating would fall through the floor and there would be little to no opportunity to borrow money, never mind borrow it at the current cheap rates the UK enjoys.

The UK treasury has already confirmed that it alone will remain liable for ALL of the accrued UK debt so Scotland wouldn't be defaulting on anything at all! The preferred option for Scotland, as you know, is to take it's negotiated share of UK debt, but if the UK don't want this then that is up to them. You still think they will stubbornly cut off their nose to spite their face?

Secondly, with no debt and full control over all our own money we wouldn't require the massive amounts of borrowing that we are used to as part of the UK. If one person has to borrow 100 quid at 5% interest and another borrows 10 quid at 10% interest, I know which person I would rather be!

There is no proof that our credit rating would actually change. Standard and Poor themselves said:

“Even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDP only by looking at onshore income, Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment. Higher GDP per capita, in our view, gives a country a broader potential tax and funding base to draw from, which supports creditworthiness.

We view Scotland’s trend growth as closely matching that of the UK. While North Sea output (again on a geographical, rather than population-derived basis) accounts for 16% of Scottish GDP (calculated using data from the Scottish government’s experimental national accounts project), this does not, under our methodology, lead us to conclude that the economy is excessively concentrated. We typically only adjust for excess economic concentration should a single sector exceed one-fifth of a country’s GDP.”

[thepaisleypanda]

Refusing to read it. Campbell receives per hit funding on his website. I won't be going anywhere near it - and I would suggest all others stop this prick from profiting from his disgusting views too.

Wrong again Stu. Who pays for it exactly? It is crowd-funded & not sponsored.

If you wish to send me a link to prove me wrong - I will accept it.

If that is your basis for not hitting the site - I can easily send you a copy directly,(PDF) so, you don't need to visit his website.

[shull]

Radio Scotland news said the million pounds was being donated to the SNP.

[chookie]

The no campaign have done very well to shift the full gaze of the average voter directly to 'currency' and 'national debt' to scaremonger the average voter into voting 'no'. These two points are fully negotiable in the possiblity of a 'yes' vote winning through.

Concentration and study should be made on points instead like, the government stating ' there is no way back' if a yes vote comes to the fore, which in my opinion is a stupid a statement to make as any, the possibility of a 'yes' vote coming out on top then e majority of Scottish people voting for the uk to stay within the eu while the majority of English voters voting for the uk to come out of the eu would poo-poo half the governments arguments into scots voters ticking 'yes' next month.

Trident and the possibility of its removal is high in the 'yes' casings agenda but how high is it with the agendas of the rest of the Scottish people and is it a reason to vote 'yes'. Will trident remaining in Scotland be a bargaining tool for any future Scottish government to gain favour with the possible future English government to change sea boundaries or divide up future oil profits for the good of the British isles and not just Scotland?

Also in the event of a 'no' vote will David Cameron withdraw power form the Scottish parliment, take more of our tax money to pay for London transport and economy.

Will the threat of removing shipbuilding jobs from babocks in the event of a 'no' win stand or will a newly independent Scotland with the pound in place prove good value to still have babcocks in place to build ships like it has done successfully in various guises for years?

Can the conservative government and whoever wins the next election be trusted enough to keep promises they are making just now to Scotland and her people that in the event of a 'no' vote everything will be all right and the future will be all nice and rosy.

[E=Mc2]

That must have been AWFUL for you - poor wee soul!

Imagine people having the cheek to express their views. At least you have the BBC for your solace.

The music of The Proclaimers isn't a "view".

It's just music, which I happen to like, but not when it means I can't have a conversation in my own car.

We were next to each other on a roundabout on the Great Western Road out of Glasgow with the traffic at a standstill.

Maybe hearing the Proclaimers will persuade folk to vote yes.

I have chatted with many yes and no and undecided voters, but none have said that hearing the Proclaimers music has swung them into the yes camp.

It seems to me that the campaign, on both sides, will deteriorate into our celebrities are better than your celebrities.

If I make my decision based on their criteria, I just can't see myself taking sides with the singing Hibbie twins, but I do admire Ken Stott as an actor.

Who said this would be easy.

[thepaisleypanda]

If something like that makes you vote No - then, I suspect you were always leaning that way anyway.

I do agree though that the "celebrity" thing is tedious on both sides, which, is why most are staying hush about it.

On a positive note though, if EITHER side can raise their profile locally (ie: the margovan in your case) then it will do their specific cause little harm normally. - That's where YES have the advantage.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Radio Scotland news said the million pounds was being donated to the SNP.

Aye, got you the first time shull. Only those who misread and deliberately misrepresent for the purposes of posting rants and lies couldn't understand your simple post...

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The UK treasury has already confirmed that it alone will remain liable for ALL of the accrued UK debt so Scotland wouldn't be defaulting on anything at all! The preferred option for Scotland, as you know, is to take it's negotiated share of UK debt, but if the UK don't want this then that is up to them. You still think they will stubbornly cut off their nose to spite their face?

Secondly, with no debt and full control over all our own money we wouldn't require the massive amounts of borrowing that we are used to as part of the UK. If one person has to borrow 100 quid at 5% interest and another borrows 10 quid at 10% interest, I know which person I would rather be!

There is no proof that our credit rating would actually change. Standard and Poor themselves said:

Even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDP only by looking at onshore income, Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment. Higher GDP per capita, in our view, gives a country a broader potential tax and funding base to draw from, which supports creditworthiness.

We view Scotlands trend growth as closely matching that of the UK. While North Sea output (again on a geographical, rather than population-derived basis) accounts for 16% of Scottish GDP (calculated using data from the Scottish governments experimental national accounts project), this does not, under our methodology, lead us to conclude that the economy is excessively concentrated. We typically only adjust for excess economic concentration should a single sector exceed one-fifth of a countrys GDP.

What you mean Dickson posted untruths and misrepresented facts...again!

[iTony]

As I said, you're no good at this trolling lark.

No you didn't. I've never read a post from you aimed at me until just now.

[iTony]

As I said, you're no good at this trolling lark.

Nice climb-down and "spin".

[iTony]

As I said, you're no good at this trolling lark.

Good debating there SlartiNats.

[iTony]

I was speaking to my Boss' wife at lunchtime today after he'd taken her out and she asked me was I "interested in the Referendum". Obviously I didn't know what way she swings so to speak to I said I was unsure about some of the promises being made. She said "I'm Scottish to the core and proud to be Scottish but think it would be best to remain part of the United Kingdom. Better to be part of something bigger than a wee place that doesn't get listened to. Also, a lot of the people screaming 'Scotland' and 'we can free once and for all', you know the one's I'm on about - they're all arseholes those people."

I never thought my Boss' wife would use such language but there you go - obviously she's been in the company of those cybernat bully boys too much.

[FTOF]

Oh joy, Maxi's back...

Let's hope iTony's meltdowns are equally amusing.

[EastBuddie]

Things I have learned reading this thread

1. Most of the Yes camp think Mr D is a twat

2. Mr D thinks the Yes camp are twats

3. Nope that's it.

304 pages and that's about it.

[salmonbuddie]

I was speaking to my Boss' wife at lunchtime today after he'd taken her out and she asked me was I "interested in the Referendum". Obviously I didn't know what way she swings so to speak to I said I was unsure about some of the promises being made. She said "I'm Scottish to the core and proud to be Scottish but think it would be best to remain part of the United Kingdom. Better to be part of something bigger than a wee place that doesn't get listened to. Also, a lot of the people screaming 'Scotland' and 'we can free once and for all', you know the one's I'm on about - they're all arseholes those people."

I never thought my Boss' wife would use such language but there you go - obviously she's been in the company of those cybernat bully boys too much.

Your boss's wife, you say? That's me convinced, then, I'm changing to a No vote.

There has been some vacuous shite spouted on here but that takes the biscuit......

[Stuart Dickson]

The UK treasury has already confirmed that it alone will remain liable for ALL of the accrued UK debt so Scotland wouldn't be defaulting on anything at all! The preferred option for Scotland, as you know, is to take it's negotiated share of UK debt, but if the UK don't want this then that is up to them. You still think they will stubbornly cut off their nose to spite their face?

Secondly, with no debt and full control over all our own money we wouldn't require the massive amounts of borrowing that we are used to as part of the UK. If one person has to borrow 100 quid at 5% interest and another borrows 10 quid at 10% interest, I know which person I would rather be!

There is no proof that our credit rating would actually change. Standard and Poor themselves said:

“Even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDP only by looking at onshore income, Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment. Higher GDP per capita, in our view, gives a country a broader potential tax and funding base to draw from, which supports creditworthiness.

We view Scotland’s trend growth as closely matching that of the UK. While North Sea output (again on a geographical, rather than population-derived basis) accounts for 16% of Scottish GDP (calculated using data from the Scottish government’s experimental national accounts project), this does not, under our methodology, lead us to conclude that the economy is excessively concentrated. We typically only adjust for excess economic concentration should a single sector exceed one-fifth of a country’s GDP.”

You would be defaulting on your National Debt. The debt is tangible, not abstract. If Scotland refuse to take on their share of the National Debt they would be in default to the Bank of England.

As for the credit rating - that statement from Standard and Poor was made long before Alex Salmond started to band about a threat about defaulting on national debt to try and get his way in negotiations over currency. Can you imagine the international money markets reaction to a government whom every time it didn't get it's way immediately threatened to default on it's debt? Your credit rating would fall through the floor. Certainly there wouldn't be many people keen to give you money.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

You would be defaulting on your National Debt. The debt is tangible, not abstract. If Scotland refuse to take on their share of the National Debt they would be in default to the Bank of England.

As for the credit rating - that statement from Standard and Poor was made long before Alex Salmond started to band about a threat about defaulting on national debt to try and get his way in negotiations over currency. Can you imagine the international money markets reaction to a government whom every time it didn't get it's way immediately threatened to default on it's debt? Your credit rating would fall through the floor. Certainly there wouldn't be many people keen to give you money.

Are you not Scottish?

Can you explain what you mean by tangible, not abstract or did you read it on a better together facebook page?

Salmond has never threatened to default on the debt. The debt is a liability of UK, rUK wishes to be the continuation of current UK.

So if a nation has no debt and wished to borrow with oil, whisky etc as good exports there will be plenty of people and organisations on the "international money markets" willing to do this.

It's all explained by BoWSaint quite sensibly but you choose to ignore it.