bluto Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) What is it with you and Stuart and utopias! So you admit that things are shit now.....but you simply roll over and admit defeat assuming that nothing can ever change. What a poor attitude in life. You sound like the French. This vote could have massive repercussions and things could certainly change. Of course it won't be a "utopia" and of course there will still be politicians doing what they do best, but Scotland can go from having a 10% say in who runs them, to having 100% say. You may say I'm a dreamer....but I'm not the only one. I hope some day you will join us......etc People who disparage the offer of this referendum are not admitting defeat. Far from it.I see the Yes men as running away from the fight. London is glorious but its wealth and power distorts its relationship with the rest of the UK. And Capitalism is the main motor here, not nationality. A yes vote is pointless , can change nothing in that relationship. It's running away from addressing the problem - cos of a legal loophole - and abandoning the rest of society in the fight. It's scabbing. It's breaking solidarity. The vote will have massive repercussions, indeed. It's already wasted £13m of public money and there would be shedloads to pour after that for every part of the country. Yes, is a dramatic choice and a nightmare, far from dreaming... sleepwalking, perhaps.... Eta. Ps what's this racial stereotyping of 'the French' whose 'attitude' some Scots apparently share...? Bizarre.... Edited August 22, 2014 by bluto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Planet Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 What is it with you and Stuart and utopias! So you admit that things are shit now.....but you simply roll over and admit defeat assuming that nothing can ever change. What a poor attitude in life. You sound like the French. This vote could have massive repercussions and things could certainly change. Of course it won't be a "utopia" and of course there will still be politicians doing what they do best, but Scotland can go from having a 10% say in who runs them, to having 100% say. You may say I'm a dreamer....but I'm not the only one. I hope some day you will join us......etc You should finish the lyric BoWSaint, it's a perfect advert for the concept of Union. See, even John Lennon knew it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 You should finish the lyric BoWSaint, it's a perfect advert for the concept of Union. See, even John Lennon knew it. I've always been a Beatles fan and of course of John too.. My understanding is that John was saying these things can't and won't happen in the real world but imagining it or dreaming about it is a kind of therapeutic alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Sir Ian Woods report stating an over estimate of between 40-60% of the amount of oil remaining should be heeded , he has no affiliation to either camp. And here is a response from another person who has no affiliation to either camp. Graeme Blackett of BiGGAR Economics responds to comments by Sir Ian Wood Statement from Graeme Blackett of BiGGAR Economics, author of the N-56 report - 'Oil and Gas - A Pivotal Moment', in response to the comments by Sir Ian Wood: "As author of the N-56 report on the future of oil and gas we very much welcome Sir Ian Wood’s confirmation that recoverable oil is far higher than that outlined in the Office for Budget Responsibility figures (OBR). "What we stated in our report is consistent with both Sir Ian Wood and also oil economist, Professor Alex Kemp. We highlight that under a high-production scenario there are 14.9 billion barrels of oil and gas recoverable between now and 2040, and we also considered a medium-production scenario of 12.2 billion barrels and a low-production scenario of 9.5 billion barrels. Sir Ian states there are 15 to16.5 billion barrels and, in evidence to the Scottish Parliament in April, Professor Kemp stated that 14 billion barrels could be produced by 2040 with implementation of the Wood Review recommendations to improve production efficiency. "There are indeed an estimated up to 24 billion barrels in reserves, as acknowledged by Sir Ian in his own review on the future of the industry, but these are not all recoverable as the figures above illustrate although as technology improves these will potentially increase. "The recommendations outlined in our report to maximise recovery include a more competitive tax regime for the North Sea, such as tax incentives to boost growth, a long-term oil and gas industrial development plan to foster economic growth and the co-location of policy and decision makers responsible for oil and gas taxation and regulation to be moved from London to Aberdeen. Some of these are Sir Ian’s own recommendations in his Wood Review. "If Sir Ian is right and there are up to 16.5 billion barrels recoverable, then future oil taxation revenues would be even higher than this, perhaps as high as £400 billion between 2014 and 2040, far higher than the OBR figure of c. £60 billion. This confirms the N-56 analysis that, based on rising oil prices and industry views on recoverable reserves, the remaining value of oil to the economy and to the Treasury could total around the same as the total historic value received to date." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 The best thing about that post smcc... is that it got us off page 666! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 The best thing about that post smcc... is that it got us off page 666! ...and as Iron Maiden said... Six, six, six, the number of the beast, Hell and fire, are sworn to be released. He's an evil basturt, he likes to get around, He hasnae' got a plan B, He's gonnae' use the pound. It was one of their biggest hits. Pretty sure that's the right lyrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 ...and as Iron Maiden said... Six, six, six, the number of the beast, Hell and fire, are sworn to be released. He's an evil basturt, he likes to get around, He hasnae' got a plan B, He's gonnae' use the pound. It was one of their biggest hits. Pretty sure that's the right lyrics. Then there's 668, the neighbour of the beast. Presumably the person that lives next door to Rolf Harris? Anyway, oil reserves.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 And here is a response from another person who has no affiliation to either camp. Graeme Blackett of BiGGAR Economics responds to comments by Sir Ian Wood Statement from Graeme Blackett of BiGGAR Economics, author of the N-56 report - 'Oil and Gas - A Pivotal Moment', in response to the comments by Sir Ian Wood: "As author of the N-56 report on the future of oil and gas we very much welcome Sir Ian Wood’s confirmation that recoverable oil is far higher than that outlined in the Office for Budget Responsibility figures (OBR). "What we stated in our report is consistent with both Sir Ian Wood and also oil economist, Professor Alex Kemp. We highlight that under a high-production scenario there are 14.9 billion barrels of oil and gas recoverable between now and 2040, and we also considered a medium-production scenario of 12.2 billion barrels and a low-production scenario of 9.5 billion barrels. Sir Ian states there are 15 to16.5 billion barrels and, in evidence to the Scottish Parliament in April, Professor Kemp stated that 14 billion barrels could be produced by 2040 with implementation of the Wood Review recommendations to improve production efficiency. "There are indeed an estimated up to 24 billion barrels in reserves, as acknowledged by Sir Ian in his own review on the future of the industry, but these are not all recoverable as the figures above illustrate although as technology improves these will potentially increase. "The recommendations outlined in our report to maximise recovery include a more competitive tax regime for the North Sea, such as tax incentives to boost growth, a long-term oil and gas industrial development plan to foster economic growth and the co-location of policy and decision makers responsible for oil and gas taxation and regulation to be moved from London to Aberdeen. Some of these are Sir Ian’s own recommendations in his Wood Review. "If Sir Ian is right and there are up to 16.5 billion barrels recoverable, then future oil taxation revenues would be even higher than this, perhaps as high as £400 billion between 2014 and 2040, far higher than the OBR figure of c. £60 billion. This confirms the N-56 analysis that, based on rising oil prices and industry views on recoverable reserves, the remaining value of oil to the economy and to the Treasury could total around the same as the total historic value received to date." A Treasury spokesman said: "As part of the UK, every man, woman and child in Scotland is £1,400 better off. The Scottish government's claim that Scotland's public finances will be boosted by separation are based on inflated oil and gas forecasts. Every independent expert agrees that North Sea oil and gas revenues are volatile and will ultimately decline. The Scottish government's own stats show that over the past two years, North Sea tax revenues were around £5bn less than the Scottish government's lowest estimate. You seemed to have missed this bit out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Which is all done by negotiation - we've went through this before Dorothy. The outcome will be that Scotland will take its share of the debt and there will be a currency union. Personally, I don't know why you are arguing the points as you are "positive" that the result will be No. Surely all your posts should just be a quote followed by the word "irrelevant". Maybe you're not so "positive" after all. See you, playing with peoples minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Well, I'm certainly not going to "play" with any other part of him. It's funny you say that.......................wait, this is for another thread altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 A Treasury spokesman said: "As part of the UK, every man, woman and child in Scotland is £1,400 better off. The Scottish government's claim that Scotland's public finances will be boosted by separation are based on inflated oil and gas forecasts. Every independent expert agrees that North Sea oil and gas revenues are volatile and will ultimately decline. The Scottish government's own stats show that over the past two years, North Sea tax revenues were around £5bn less than the Scottish government's lowest estimate. You seemed to have missed this bit out. If you believe everything said by "a Treasury spokesman" you are really naive. The Treasury frequently manipulates figures to suit its own ends. No one denies that oil reserves are not finite, but the piece I quoted suggests that "the remaining value of oil to the economy and to the Treasury could total around the same as the total historic value received to date." You seem not to have noticed this. Just think what an independent Scotland could do with this money rather than waste it on Trident and vain attempts to pretend that the UK/Britain is still a believable world power. The UK government still behaves as if the Empire is extant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 People who disparage the offer of this referendum are not admitting defeat. Far from it. I see the Yes men as running away from the fight. London is glorious but its wealth and power distorts its relationship with the rest of the UK. And Capitalism is the main motor here, not nationality. A yes vote is pointless , can change nothing in that relationship. It's running away from addressing the problem - cos of a legal loophole - and abandoning the rest of society in the fight. It's cabbing. It's breaking solidarity. The vote will have massive repercussions, indeed. It's already wasted £13m of public money and there would be shedloads to pour after that for every part of the country. Yes, is a dim choice and a nightmare, far from dreaming... sleepwalking, perhaps.... An Englishman's view: http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/scotland-heavy-price-referendum.html?m=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 That's one million Yes signatures reached today. Very impressive considering probably around 3 million will vote and I'm sure that swathes of Yes voters like me have yet to sign it. Anyone who thinks No will walk this is simply not reading the signs. This will be close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 If you believe everything said by "a Treasury spokesman" you are really naive. The Treasury frequently manipulates figures to suit its own ends. No one denies that oil reserves are not finite, but the piece I quoted suggests that "the remaining value of oil to the economy and to the Treasury could total around the same as the total historic value received to date." You seem not to have noticed this. Just think what an independent Scotland could do with this money rather than waste it on Trident and vain attempts to pretend that the UK/Britain is still a believable world power. The UK government still behaves as if the Empire is extant. I don't think we should have Trident either I don't see the need for it , but unfortunately many people are employed at these sites and the local economy's are somewhat reliant on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 An Englishman's view:http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/scotland-heavy-price-referendum.html?m=1Interesting but fruitcaky.Ta. It certainly was a measured response to my comments, analytically dissecting and defusing them with style and élan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Is it for that "other site" you frequent? (The one that you told me about because obviously I had absolutely no prior knowledge of it at all, whatsoever, ever ... ) Typical Natsi resorting to more filth. There's no need for sneaky little links to inappropriate websites on this forum. I believe one of your fellow Boot Boys did a similar thing and caught out Stuart D who clicked on it - absolutely disgusting by you Natsi's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Is it for that "other site" you frequent? (The one that you told me about because obviously I had absolutely no prior knowledge of it at all, whatsoever, ever ... ) I'm scared to click it...........................leave me alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 So in summary, the Yes people on here have contributed lies, scaremongering, whataboutary and links to inappropriate websites. Herr Salmond will be proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 It's often been argued by Natsis on this thread that there aren't any countries who have regretted gaining independence from the UK. Time to debunk that myth too. 92% of Hong Kong Residents voted last year to say that they would rather return to UK rule than continue with their current arrangement, Hong Kong was the last UK Colony to be returned back to it's country of origin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4vlQuTSJXg Not exactly the best example as Hong Kong didn't gain independence but instead of being British it is now Chinese. It would probably have been far better independent like Singapore. They are most certainly right to be upset about some of the changes being forced on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoWSaint Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Typical Natsi resorting to more filth. There's no need for sneaky little links to inappropriate websites on this forum. I believe one of your fellow Boot Boys did a similar thing and caught out Stuart D who clicked on it - absolutely disgusting by you Natsi's. I find it funny that the same people who declare that no offense can possibly be taken from being called a Natsi and constant comparisons to Nazi Germany also find it utterly disgusting and inappropriate to be taken to the Wings Over Scotland website! Who's easily offended now then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 I don't think we should have Trident either I don't see the need for it , but unfortunately many people are employed at these sites and the local economy's are somewhat reliant on them.The myth of local economies being reliant on Trident has been debunked on many occasions.Have you been to helensburgh lately? It's not unlike Paisley or any other town with regards empty units and charity shops. A large percentage of staff simply head home to the parts of UK to spend their money. In addition, there will still be a naval base at Faslane posy Independence which will employ locals either directly or indirectly as contractors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) I find it funny that the same people who declare that no offense can possibly be taken from being called a Natsi and constant comparisons to Nazi Germany also find it utterly disgusting and inappropriate to be taken to the Wings Over Scotland website! Who's easily offended now then? I don't believe I have ever said such a thing? As for the bit about a link to the "Wings Over Scotland" website, I believe - if my memory serves me correct - that it was to do with an individual that Stuart D pointed out had a lack of morals. I note that you don't bother mentioning the sneaky link that your fellow Natsi Boot Boy SlartiNats posted leading to a website for "real life sex dolls". To be fair, that's the closest you Natsi Boot Boys are ever going to get to a girl-friend or wife, although I did notice before I clicked on the cross to close the offending internet page that they had male versions if that is more of your thing? Still, either way it'll be the closest most of you will have to "forming a relationship". Keep calm - it's only a forum and referendum which you don't have much chance of winning so I'm sure the blow when it arrives will be a little softer than your usual blows in your disappointing life! Edited August 22, 2014 by iTony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 As I said, you're no good at this trolling lark. It appears that you're not very good either as all you have in your locker is the same post everyday without any intelligent thoughts amongst it. To be honest you're not offending me with the above, I simply feel sorry for you and your sad life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Darling has done the ice cold bucket of water challenge, Salmond has agreed to do it too, and he says he's looking forward to nominating the next person to get the treatment. If he's looking for suggestions.... Judith Ralston please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Darling has done the ice cold bucket of water challenge, Salmond has agreed to do it too, and he says he's looking forward to nominating the next person to get the treatment. If he's looking for suggestions.... Judith Ralston please. If its a Yes win in September then the wives/girlfriends/boyfriends/husbands of the Natsi Boot Boys on here should be made to do it at Paisley Cenotaph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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