The Referendum Thread

[salmonbuddie]

Who?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Who?

Rt Hon Minister of State for Portsmouth

[Stuart Dickson]

I wonder how many people genuinely confuse general elections with an independence referendum?

Surely it can't be more than 5 ?

I thought it was everyone - surely?

After all it was only yesterday some of you daft Natsis were claiming that Scotland needed Independence cause we didn't vote Conservative at the last General Election. Silly me though, I should have guessed that this was another of those one rule for the Scottish Goose Steppers and one rule for democracy.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

This raised a wee smile or two

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/now-even-david-bowies-ganging-up-on-the-scots-is-this-how-to-stop-independence-9142266.html

until the eric pickles line

[oaksoft]

I work in a government funded industry, too, and there's a slim chance that independence will cost me my job or, more likely, more in tax. I'm willing to take my chances on those because I think independence is the best bet for the future for both my son and my grandson. I also think that the wider social benefits it will bring are worth it, too, and would vote Yes on that basis alone.

Yep that pretty much sums up my motivation as well.

Independence could well cost me personally but I can't honestly hand on heart look my children in the face and tell them I voted away their future for my own personal gain. I understand why some will do that and Vote No but it's not for me.

I've had a good career and I'll find a way of getting by. My kids are just starting out in the world and they deserve much better than what the UK has subjected us to for countless decades.

If we only end up with a fairer and more just country for them to grow up in then I'll be proud to have voted Yes for their benefit.

IMO I think it's time the older generations did something for the young guns.

We've stopped them ever buying a house, slaughtered their education and introduced them to a country of inequality which hasn't been seen in the UK before - in living memory anyway.

We have a moral duty to give them the freedom to forge their own future.

Edited February 26, 2014 by oaksoft

[saintnextlifetime]

Here's Cameron for starters:

“Supporters of independence will always cite examples of small, independent and thriving economies, such as Switzerland and Norway. It would be wrong to suggest that Scotland could not be another such successful, independent country” - David Cameron (April 2007)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3639114/Scots-and-English-flourish-in-the-Union.html

And Darling:

"The question is not whether Scotland can survive as a separate state. Of course it could." - Alistair Darling (June 2012)

http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/topic/37355-the-referendum-thread/page-96#entry1158428

There are others, too, can't be arsed finding them right now.

Thanks for that. .SB. .

[Stuart Dickson]

Yep that pretty much sums up my motivation as well.

Independence could well cost me personally but I can't honestly hand on heart look my children in the face and tell them I voted away their future for my own personal gain. I understand why some will do that and Vote No but it's not for me.

I've had a good career and I'll find a way of getting by. My kids are just starting out in the world and they deserve much better than what the UK has subjected us to for countless decades.

If we only end up with a fairer and more just country for them to grow up in then I'll be proud to have voted Yes for their benefit.

IMO I think it's time the older generations did something for the young guns.

We've stopped them ever buying a house, slaughtered their education and introduced them to a country of inequality which hasn't been seen in the UK before - in living memory anyway.

We have a moral duty to give them the freedom to forge their own future.

Hmm, most of the kids I know - whether through athletics or football or just friends of my sons - want Scotland to remain in the Union. Maybe you'd like to look them in the face and say that your planning to vote their future away on some idiotic xenophobic ideology whim.

[Vambo57]

it was me who said it, because i am bound by uk law which is necessary for me to be able to deal with confidential information, if i am no longer part of the uk then i am not bound by uk law and therefore unable to access confidential info on uk residents, which renders me unable to do my job, i know this because i read it every morning when opening my it systems "you are bound by uk law, accessing this system for unlawful reasons blah blah blah"

and see my previous post re the barnett formula - it covers N I and wales also

Buddiecat, as you probably know, the UK National Savings Bank has outsourced it's whole business to Atos (previously to Siemens), who were both allowed by the UK govenment (wrongly IMO) to off-shore to anywhere they like, which at the moment is mostly India - whose staff are 'legally bound by UK law", even though they live and work in India. Why wouldn;t they outsource closer to home?

I can see why Atos or rUK - if they needed the experience - may just keep the existing arrangements with the DWP and Benefits Agency. Of course nothing is guaranteed, but any new Scottish government would also need all sorts of Civil Servants.

[Stuart Dickson]

Here's Cameron for starters:

“Supporters of independence will always cite examples of small, independent and thriving economies, such as Switzerland and Norway. It would be wrong to suggest that Scotland could not be another such successful, independent country” - David Cameron (April 2007)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3639114/Scots-and-English-flourish-in-the-Union.html

And Darling:

"The question is not whether Scotland can survive as a separate state. Of course it could." - Alistair Darling (June 2012)

http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/topic/37355-the-referendum-thread/page-96#entry1158428

There are others, too, can't be arsed finding them right now.

I wouldn't argue with Alastair Darlings statement. It's obviously true. An Independent Scotland would survive if it was a separate state. Of course it would - one way or another. After all even bankrupt nations like Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Ireland have managed to survive. So what if their unemployment rates are at record highs at least they've got their independence......well sort of since Germany are still dictating their economic policy....

[oaksoft]

After all it was only yesterday some of you daft Natsis were claiming that Scotland needed Independence cause we didn't vote Conservative at the last General Election. Silly me though, I should have guessed that this was another of those one rule for the Scottish Goose Steppers and one rule for democracy.

Hmm, most of the kids I know - whether through athletics or football or just friends of my sons - want Scotland to remain in the Union. Maybe you'd like to look them in the face and say that your planning to vote their future away on some idiotic xenophobic ideology whim.

Quite apart from the fact that my wife is English, all of my kids are English too, that we all lived happily in the South East of England for 14 years and most of my friends are English, what you've posted is the reason why you are on virtually everyone's ignore list. Either play nice or f**k off.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I wouldn't argue with Alastair Darlings statement. It's obviously true. An Independent Scotland would survive if it was a separate state. Of course it would - one way or another. After all even bankrupt nations like Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Ireland have managed to survive. So what if their unemployment rates are at record highs at least they've got their independence......well sort of since Germany are still dictating their economic policy....

I wonder if their food banks run out of food, or do you need to have "the best of both worlds" * to achieve this...

*better together version, not Hannah Montana

[Vambo57]

I thought it was everyone - surely?

After all it was only yesterday some of you daft Natsis were claiming that Scotland needed Independence cause we didn't vote Conservative at the last General Election. Silly me though, I should have guessed that this was another of those one rule for the Scottish Goose Steppers and one rule for democracy.

Stu, I only fairly recently made my mind up to vote yes and I strongly object to you using those terms. The Mods really should be having a strong word with you.

[Stuart Dickson]

I wonder if their food banks run out of food, or do you need to have "the best of both worlds" * to achieve this...

*better together version, not Hannah Montana

http://www.euronews.com/2013/12/20/church-food-banks-last-resort-for-impoverished-greeks (5000 people queuing at one food bank in Athens0

http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2011/oct/12/portuga-europe-on-the-breadline - the Portugese food bank feeding 160,000 people.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/10/solidarity-machine-food-bank-donations-spain - According to the Catholic charity Caritas, three million Spaniards live in severe poverty (on less than €307 a month), double the number in 2007. Food banks across the country say demand for their services is far outpacing donation

http://www.thejournal.ie/food-appeal-dublin-1175124-Nov2013/ - one Irish Food bank organisation delivering 750 tonnes of food this year.

Yep - it seems there is a high demand for food banks in all of these countries

Edited February 26, 2014 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

Stu, I only fairly recently made my mind up to vote yes and I strongly object to you using those terms. The Mods really should be having a strong word with you.

Nonsense. The whole Socialist Nationalist campaign in Scotland is very similar to the way the National Socialists ran their campaigns in Germany in the 1920's and 30's. The whole propaganda machine that the SNP have running - using taxpayers money - is on a scale that Goebbels would have been proud of and the campaign appears to be drive by a prejudice against either England on the whole - or just against those English people who happened to go to what many Scots seems to perceive as elite schools. If you want evidence just read through this thread at the frankly absurd attacks launched by the brown shirts brigade on here on anyone who speaks out against Independence and on a wider scale just read the comments of Scottish business leaders who claim that when they gave their opinions they received phone calls from the First Minister warning of consequences if they did it again.

Scots should be aware of their history and see this dangerous and divisive campaign for what it is. The idea that the nation should make an irreversible decision without any evidence or facts being produced to back up that rather poor work of fiction by Nicola Sturgeon is ridiculous. That so many appear to have been duped is even more damning.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Nonsense. The whole Socialist Nationalist campaign in Scotland is very similar to the way the National Socialists ran their campaigns in Germany in the 1920's and 30's. The whole propaganda machine that the SNP have running - using taxpayers money - is on a scale that Goebbels would have been proud of and the campaign appears to be drive by a prejudice against either England on the whole - or just against those English people who happened to go to what many Scots seems to perceive as elite schools. If you want evidence just read through this thread at the frankly absurd attacks launched by the brown shirts brigade on here on anyone who speaks out against Independence and on a wider scale just read the comments of Scottish business leaders who claim that when they gave their opinions they received phone calls from the First Minister warning of consequences if they did it again.

Scots should be aware of their history and see this dangerous and divisive campaign for what it is. The idea that the nation should make an irreversible decision without any evidence or facts being produced to back up that rather poor work of fiction by Nicola Sturgeon is ridiculous. That so many appear to have been duped is even more damning.

Stuart Dickson is a Barefaced Liar!

...Again

[Stuart Dickson]

Stuart Dickson is a Barefaced Liar!

...Again

....and there's the Brown Shirt attack.....

[Bud Bundy]

each to his own, but i believe in if it aint broke dont fix it,it works well for my family as it is and i also believe we wont have enough financial reserve or borrowing power to sustain social benefits,which will in turn cause social unrest,that is because nobody has convinced me that we will be able to afford going it alone

staunch unionist with a hint of masonic undertone in the above BC ?

[Bud Bundy]

....and there's the Dickson Shit attack.....

[saintnextlifetime]

Stu, I only fairly recently made my mind up to vote yes and I strongly object to you using those terms. The Mods really should be having a strong word with you.

I really don't know , why anyone , and I do mean anyone even responds to or quotes Dicko . He is just a spammer bent on getting cheap thrills by attempting to wind people up . .

[salmonbuddie]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This - ignore him, responding only gives him the sense of self importance and validation he's desperately looking for.

Edited February 27, 2014 by salmonbuddie

[Howard Hughes in BlueSuedeShoes]

Nonsense. The whole Socialist Nationalist campaign in Scotland is very similar to the way the National Socialists ran their campaigns in Germany in the 1920's and 30's. The whole propaganda machine that the SNP have running - using taxpayers money - is on a scale that Goebbels would have been proud of and the campaign appears to be drive by a prejudice against either England on the whole - or just against those English people who happened to go to what many Scots seems to perceive as elite schools. If you want evidence just read through this thread at the frankly absurd attacks launched by the brown shirts brigade on here on anyone who speaks out against Independence and on a wider scale just read the comments of Scottish business leaders who claim that when they gave their opinions they received phone calls from the First Minister warning of consequences if they did it again.

Scots should be aware of their history and see this dangerous and divisive campaign for what it is. The idea that the nation should make an irreversible decision without any evidence or facts being produced to back up that rather poor work of fiction by Nicola Sturgeon is ridiculous. That so many appear to have been duped is even more damning.

There you have it, folks, the definitive point of view on the independence debate; if you want the chance to take care of your own affairs that means you’re anti-Semitic.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

....and there's the Brown Shirt attack.....

All I did was point out, quite concisely, that once again you were posting lies and slanderous shite along with misrepresenting facts in your continuous propaganda. Your response is to call me a nazi. You don't do irony do you?

[Drew]

So, Standard Life are threatening to bail-out in the event of a YES vote.

What is the term that Shull is so fond of using...?

[Stuart Dickson]

Ive just woken up. Are RBS planning to do the same or is Scotland going to have to support a bank that continues to lose £8bn annually? And does Alex Salmond still think RBSs falling share price it's all the fault of LSEs Spivs and Speculators

[Isabella Duke]

So, Standard Life are threatening to bail-out in the event of a YES vote.

What is the term that Shull is so fond of using...?

The investment / life / pensions sectror in Scotland is massive and employs 000s of people and covers many large companies.

The majority of their customers are in the rest of the UK and the success of these companies in winning business in the rest of the UK wouldn't have been possible without a union.

The loss of companies like this would be a devasting blow to the Scottish economy. Indeed, with the uncertainty due to the referendum, I wouldn't be suprised to see this sector start losing business in the run up.

Its all very good for the pro independence lot to play at being braveheart... but this is real people's livelihoods at stake here.