Punt Or Keep?

[insaintee]

Gow is out the door

He played himself in a few weeks ago by playing well in the reserves and a couple decent performances from the bench

He got start and was dreadful and got dufflecoated at half time

Had his chance and played like a novice

Lets hope so

[insaintee]

FFS didn't think that you were a bitter and twisted dafty, Rae will pick players on their footballing ability and how they fit into the type of team he plans to build.

It's called the old boys net work and if you don't think it happens then you're more jaked than ever. 3 million to rangers for Wilson curtsy of Alex Miller

[Kendo]

It's called the old boys net work and if you don't think it happens then you're more jaked than ever. 3 million to rangers for Wilson curtsy of Alex Miller

Whit? You're jaked, what are you slabbering on about?

[faraway saint]

FFS didn't think that you were a bitter and twisted dafty, Rae will pick players on their footballing ability and how they fit into the type of team he plans to build.

You did know he was a nutter though, right?

[WeeBud]

Soctty

For any team, but certainly one of our size and means, going into the red voluntarily would be utter lunacy. Spending a wee bit more money doesn't guarantee anything. Spending a lot more money might elevate a team to promotion from the Championship, but we'd have spent money we don't have, which would be unsustainable, especially when interest payments are due on the debt.

I'd rather still have a club, than mourn a former club whose last act was to get promoted to the Premiership before going bust shortly after.

Response.

Thanks for asking me to explain rather than calling me a nutter as the real nutters do. It is so easy to read into words things that are not intended.

So invested as I mean it - putting "our money", (Not big scary loans which will spiral us into meltdown) into commercial ventures, players, management with the expectation/ambition of achieving a "gain". (By expectation, I mean having done all the homework to give the business the best chance of it happening - business decisions should not be taken too quickly or too late) Sacking Murray was far too late; no question - the stats prove that, and although we can appreciate the BOD giving him every chance, it actually cost us more in the long run. (No play off place and still the pay off)

The BOD do invest to a fashion, of course they have to - Commercial ventures are things like the hospitality. I suspect there is more can be done in this area. (Guess that is Tony's arena to explore)

The money invested or risked in players and management in recent years has not always been good (to say the least). Murray was very disastrous - in terms of results (which always keeps fans away), the cost us in his wages, his assistant who got paid off and in signing folk like Gow, Agnew etc.. Teale, Craig were "cheap in house options" that proved to be very poor decisions indeed. (Craig had previously failed as a manager - decent coach though) The level of financial risk on them might have been less than for a good manager and players, but the result was clearly loss upon loss.

So if for example Rae was in at the start of the season and his record was roughly what it has been, we would have finished much higher in the league - the payment for finishing higher is significant (even between 8th and 5th it is tens of thousands of pounds). Finishing 4th or 3rd would have brought in even more (0ver £100,000) plus the play off games revenue added on to that.

My assertion is that the BOD and many fans seem to want us to "play what seems to be so safe" that THE 1st priority is financial breakeven, not a penny over ever... I am not saying we sign 2 extra better players and risk going into debt £100,000 or something like that - but if we were a little bolder and wiser in who we were signing and in other areas of Directorship management, there is a good chance it would pay off. (Not sure we have the right directors for that though) Certainly what they have been doing with their supposedly low risk keep us financially safe, decisions has not been safe(flirting with relegation) or smart.

So I think (just an opinion) Teale never got a decent enough chance to sign enough of the quality players that were available - the BOD would not take the risk and he was therefore just the short term, cheap option in stead of installing a decent manager in place of Craig. (i.e. Ross County took someone with experience in management, we did not and Teale was already on the books as a player - not sure what change was made financially to his contract - but he was a cheaper option - which failed miserably - and cost us playing in the Premier League budget wise for this year and next already.)

I also wonder if Murray got the job on the proviso of blooding more of the development/young (cheaper players, but prospects). OK he did have a budget and signed some experience too - but the mix was wrong. He was also a bit unlucky with Naismith's injury, then Watson's too. But he did not have good management credentials (Last season at Dumbarton they won 9 out of 36 league games and lost 79 goals - yeah shocking isn't it? Promising young manager my ASS)

I also think the BOD did raise their normal stingy bar when they brought in Rae. (I don't know what he is getting paid or how it compares to what Murray was on - however, He offloaded 5 players and brought in 4 - 3 from the Premier League). Again this is speculation, but I think the BOD, like the fans were in real fear of relegation, so I suspect Rae's budget to bring in the experience that the squad and team were so obviously lacking, was more than the BOD would have afforded him otherwise. (Just look at how our best paid players went away/off the budget each year, year after year previously.) I am not saying that should never be done, but year after year losing your best 1 or 2 makes life a lot more difficult. As an example look at Dundee Utd - they lost several of their better players in a couple of seasons, and they too are following in our footsteps. (They might yet survive, but they are in the black financially - yet they have been a top 6 side for so long - who expected them to be in bottom place at this stage in the season?)

So does no one agree our pot of money, which could be bigger if we were more financially astute, could have been INVESTED in better players and management than it has been in recent years? IF you are happy with what has gone on, then maybe surviving as a club is all that matters?

I think surviving as a club matters too - but not in isolation to being where we ought to be - surely that is not in the pack with Dunbarton and Morton? Lower than Hamilton and Partick to name but a few?

I don't think any of us are poles apart in what we want for St. Mirren. Even the improvement under Rae already has lifted the spirits - but compared to where we were a few seasons ago, we will need some bigger ambition, wiser investment and a better squad that we currently have.

I've read this five or six times now but I'm sorry you've totally lost me here..........there is no question the BoD have made poor choices or decisions, good ones too, but decision making and investment are totally different things.

You allude to a "pot of money" lets just call it a budget. The manager is given a budget to recruit players as he sees fit, if he makes a mess of it that lies with him.........the BoD's part in this is that they've recruited a manager who doesn't spend or make best use of his playing budget wisely.

As I said earlier I believe that we should look at improving our revenue streams to provide a larger budget for the manager to work with but borrowed money has to be paid back, often with interest, and can actually eat into the budgets of the future. On current turnover, bearing in mind we don't actually make a profit or have directors/shareholders taking dividends, where does the "investment" income come from??

[Kendo]

You did know he was a nutter though, right?

Yes that goes without saying we are all nutters on here apart from Mr Oaksoft. He is special.

[oaksoft]

Yes that goes without saying we are all nutters on here apart from Mr Oaksoft. He is special.

Recognition at last.

About time.

[Stu]

Right down at the bottom of this it says Langfield (who I thought was under contract) and Webster have signed up for another year. http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/14438038.Alex_Rae_s_tribute_to_retiring_Saint_Steven_Thompson/

[Kemp]

Right down at the bottom of this it says Langfield (who I thought was under contract) and Webster have signed up for another year. http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/14438038.Alex_Rae_s_tribute_to_retiring_Saint_Steven_Thompson/

I think they had 2 year contracts to begin with?

Webster is looking a lot more solid with Rae in charge, although overall has still been a very disappointing signing. Hopefully we can get a more reliable 'keeper than Langfield in, with Jamie just making the odd appearance to keep the No1 on his toes.

[Stu]

Webster was one year with an option for another. A few of the players are on similar deals - Howieson and possibly Carswell.

[LanarkshireBuddie]

looks like Webster has activated a clause for a further year be interesting to who stays and who goes

[shull]

Watson signed for St Johnstone yet?

You finished fertilising the Garden yet, Super Yin?