The Politics Thread

[faraway saint]

4 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

I do think you sometimes see it as a "one-side" issue and Independence followers are the problem, that said my view is probably the opposite yet like you am pretty non-plussed about the situation overall 😂

 

With regards to your second last sentence I hope for the very opposite but agree in whole re your last sentence (if you flip it round a bit) 🍺🍺

I posted so much I've lost the plot what I was meaning. 

[WeeBud]

4 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

I posted so much I've lost the plot what I was meaning. 

😂

[ALBIONSAINT]

9 hours ago, stlucifer said:

We had a debate built on many lies. Remember the published letter co-signed by various unionist politicians hyped up by the overwhelmingly unionist press. Only for most of those promises/predictions to be found false. It was debated using false premises about the lack of resources Scotland had. It was debated at a time when oil was deemed ok but Scotland apparently was running out. Now it appears oil has found its way back into Scottish waters. GO FIGURE. It was fought on the false premise that Scotland were net takers from the British coffers. It was fought on the premise that staying in the union was the only way to stay in Europe. How did that go?

Given the vast change in circumstance and the proof that the unionists simply lied, it should be fought again.

All is fair in love and war. You can add politics to that. If the SNP want the electorate to vote for independence then it will be tangible changes in cost of living and life satisfaction that need to be improved. The electorate can’t be bought on promises of how better things will be when we are independent. 

[stlucifer]

31 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

All is fair in love and war. You can add politics to that. If the SNP want the electorate to vote for independence then it will be tangible changes in cost of living and life satisfaction that need to be improved. The electorate can’t be bought on promises of how better things will be when we are independent. 

 

The fact that Natalie Elphicke felt comfortable swapping benches and the red tories were more than comfortable welcoming her should make those who think Labour is an alternative in Scotland think twice. This only serves to emphasis the fact that the only real escape from the right wing fascists is to escape this toxic union. Don't think a vote for the SNP is a vote FOR them. It is a vote for freedom to choose a government more akin to the values most Scots hold dear.

 

 

Edited May 8 by stlucifer

[faraway saint]

11 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

 

The fact that Natalie Elphicke felt comfortable swapping benches and the red tories were more than comfortable welcoming her should make those who think Labour is an alternative in Scotland think twice. This only serves to emphasis the fact that the only real escape from the right wing fascists is to escape this toxic union. Don't think a vote for the SNP is a vote FOR them. It is a vote for freedom to choose a government more akin to the values most Scots hold dear.

You might want to look into that as there has been, already, more than a few raised eyebrows at this particular individual from the labour faithful. 

Don't let that spoil your slanted view though. 

[faraway saint]

37 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

 

The fact that Natalie Elphicke felt comfortable swapping benches and the red tories were more than comfortable welcoming her should make those who think Labour is an alternative in Scotland think twice. This only serves to emphasis the fact that the only real escape from the right wing fascists is to escape this toxic union. Don't think a vote for the SNP is a vote FOR them. It is a vote for freedom to choose a government more akin to the values most Scots hold dear.

 

Here's a snippet of the opposite from your made up post...................or as some would say, an out and out lie. 

LONDON — The defection of a Conservative MP to Labour provoked an outcry from women in her new party, angry at her previous defense of her sex offender ex-husband.

Natalie Elphicke, the MP for Dover and Deal since 2019, dramatically announced her defection to Labour on Wednesday just as Rishi Sunak was taking to his feet for prime minister’s questions.

However, Elphicke’s admission to the Labour Party has caused consternation among some of her new colleagues. Seven female Labour MPs, granted anonymity to speak frankly about sentiment inside the party, told POLITICO they were uncomfortable with her switch.

But a shadow minister said there was “a lot of unease” because “Natalie has said some abhorrent things and I’m not sure her values are those we should be aspiring to have in the party.”

Edited May 8 by faraway saint

[ALBIONSAINT]

Playing the victim right to the end. Do you mean racist bigots like the nursery owner in Dundee? “His heart will always belong to Scotland “ then why did you take the FM oath in Urdu while dressed in the national dress of Pakistan? 
Given that the SNP have now decided that there foray into the weird and wacky world of loony left policy is now over will they see a difference in the polls? 

[antrin]

1 hour ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Playing the victim right to the end. Do you mean racist bigots like the nursery owner in Dundee? “His heart will always belong to Scotland “ then why did you take the FM oath in Urdu while dressed in the national dress of Pakistan? 

 

aye….   Humza should have taken the FM oath in Gaelic while dressed in full Highland regalia, just like all preceding FM’s have done.

or is that me just being a bit of a mental fascist arsehole?

Edited May 9 by antrin

[portmahomack saint]

1 hour ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Playing the victim right to the end. Do you mean racist bigots like the nursery owner in Dundee? “His heart will always belong to Scotland “ then why did you take the FM oath in Urdu while dressed in the national dress of Pakistan? 
Given that the SNP have now decided that there foray into the weird and wacky world of loony left policy is now over will they see a difference in the polls? 

   I'm getting the impression you're really upset he's stepped down 

You'll just have to turn your vitriol posts now on Gentleman John Swinney now  

[bazil85]

On 5/7/2024 at 10:24 PM, ALBIONSAINT said:

 

Didn’t we have this discussion in 2014 and only 45% of the electorate thought it was a good idea? If the SNP want to change peoples beliefs about independence they have to show that the country could be well run and prosperous while they are in charge. They have had periods over the years where this has been evident, however not in the last 3-4 years. They will pay a harsh price for the Bute house agreement and letting the greens dictate the path of direction. 

In 2014 we were told, ‘vote no and’ 

- stay in the EU 

- don’t end up with declining living standards, much higher taxation, much higher debts, much higher deficits 

- protect the NHS & social care 

- protect services 

- protect the housing market & state pension. 
 

Absolutely every one of those promises was a lie & each area has deteriorated/ came to pass in Scotland, along with the rest of the UK despite us doing what we were told. 
 

Project fear was projection & we were sold an absolute dummy regarding the way we should vote. It was telling us what would happen if we voted no, not yes. 
 

In the last few years the SNP have released multiple, expert led papers on a new vision for Scotland as an independent nation. There are unanswered questions, of course. But that’s always going to be the case because there are factual points that the UK gov would need to negotiate & agree to, and they wouldn’t do that without a yes vote. It’s catch 22, people wanting information that can’t be provided. What I would say on that, any concern on unanswered questions, surely the last 10 Years have shown us there’s the same types of concerns by trusting the status quo? 
 

I feel devolution has become a safety blanket for a failing UK government. It’s easy to blame Labour & blame the SNP for the issues in Wales and Scotland. But people just need to look holistically to see the issues are largely not because of devolved governments. They are systemic across the UK. It’s a bit like a company failing and instead of blaming the BOD, people blame the team leaders on the front line. 

[ALBIONSAINT]

10 hours ago, bazil85 said:

In 2014 we were told, ‘vote no and’ 

- stay in the EU 

- don’t end up with declining living standards, much higher taxation, much higher debts, much higher deficits 

- protect the NHS & social care 

- protect services 

- protect the housing market & state pension. 
 

Absolutely every one of those promises was a lie & each area has deteriorated/ came to pass in Scotland, along with the rest of the UK despite us doing what we were told. 
 

Project fear was projection & we were sold an absolute dummy regarding the way we should vote. It was telling us what would happen if we voted no, not yes. 
 

In the last few years the SNP have released multiple, expert led papers on a new vision for Scotland as an independent nation. There are unanswered questions, of course. But that’s always going to be the case because there are factual points that the UK gov would need to negotiate & agree to, and they wouldn’t do that without a yes vote. It’s catch 22, people wanting information that can’t be provided. What I would say on that, any concern on unanswered questions, surely the last 10 Years have shown us there’s the same types of concerns by trusting the status quo? 
 

I feel devolution has become a safety blanket for a failing UK government. It’s easy to blame Labour & blame the SNP for the issues in Wales and Scotland. But people just need to look holistically to see the issues are largely not because of devolved governments. They are systemic across the UK. It’s a bit like a company failing and instead of blaming the BOD, people blame the team leaders on the front line. 

This is a fair and balanced post. You do make some very good points, however it’s about looking forward and how to build overwhelming support in the population for independence, I think the best way to achieve this is by proving that an SNP government can be trusted and be competent. This has been lacking in recent years. 

[ALBIONSAINT]

12 hours ago, portmahomack saint said:

   I'm getting the impression you're really upset he's stepped down 

You'll just have to turn your vitriol posts now on Gentleman John Swinney now  

I am very happy he is gone. He was a divisive race baiter 👍🏻
 

Edited May 9 by ALBIONSAINT

[ALBIONSAINT]

Can we expect thousands of middle class lefty’s taking to the streets of U.K. city’s this weekend to demonstrate for a ceasefire? I won’t hold my breath as there are no Jews involved. 

[bazil85]

10 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

This is a fair and balanced post. You do make some very good points, however it’s about looking forward and how to build overwhelming support in the population for independence, I think the best way to achieve this is by proving that an SNP government can be trusted and be competent. This has been lacking in recent years. 

Agreed, I think you summarise the nature of the beast. People want to be sold on independence by being impressed by the SNP & want them to demonstrate competence. 
 

It is a bit of a frustration for me (and others I’m sure) though as the SNP are not Scottish independence. I see them only as a vehicle. Post independence, let the democratic party voting system decide who leads the country and in what form. 
 

For me, I wish more people made up their mind on independence around the capability, resources and people of Scotland than the adequacy of the SNP. Get that’s not likely to happen in large numbers though. 

[antrin]

10 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Can we expect thousands of middle class lefty’s taking to the streets of U.K. city’s this weekend to demonstrate for a ceasefire? I won’t hold my breath as there are no Jews involved. 

You can breathe easy about streets being choked by middle-class protestors this weekend.

If the UK is involved in some way and if our government is aiding the murder of civilians, women children, then there would be more likelihood of UK citizens protesting.

As we are not complicit in any way, feel free to conjure up other things to worry about, needlessly.

[FTOF]

[stlucifer]

[shull]

17 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

I mind him and Henry in the minced morsels advert.

Brilliant 

[faraway saint]

Aye, Independence, we'll all be better off......................., maybe if we turned Scotland into Disneyland. 

The vast majority of Scotland’s GDP is earned by non-Scottish domiciled companies, Many would never pay any or full corporate tax in an independent Scotland and certainly would continue to distribute post tax earnings to non-Scottish investors.

There is very little retained prosperity or wealth here. That’s a huge problem.

Many Scottish producers, such as oil and gas and distillers, are domiciled elsewhere and might have production or extraction in Scotland but earn huge ‘added-value’ in the supply chain outwith Scotland so we don’t see that benefit either as it’s accounted for in their home jurisdiction.

All our major retailers, that are typically located ‘out of town’ and benefit from low rents, huge NDR subsidies and other benefits thereby creating ‘super-profits’, are ‘cross border’. The only benefit we see is subsistence employment, a major reason for our health, substance abuse, educational attainment and poverty issues, dependence on state support and a lack of ‘hope, aspiration and ambition’.

That’s all because of the dramatic reduction in Scottish indigenous ‘business’ and retained wealth in the last 25 + years.

Stripping out inward investment, Scotland is probably the poorest and the most dependent country in Europe and it’s time our government realised the consequences of a woeful lack of support for indigenous SME entrepreneurs and ventures. Just look at Norway’s commerce and industry. They had far more oil and gas than Scotland/UK per capita but also kept all their indigenous businesses with virtually no foreign ‘brands’ allowed in.

Scandinavian, Baltic and smaller European countries, held up by SNP as ‘models’ for independence, do the opposite to ScotGov and benevolently protect indigenous business, vigorously excluding inward investment by ‘cross border’ businesses unless they don’t compete with local enterprises or they exports and earn foreign currency for the small country.

We need to waken up to the reality that Scotland’s GDP is a grand illusion and our government have abjectly failed to support indigenous business.

[WeeBud]

15 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Aye, Independence, we'll all be better off......................., maybe if we turned Scotland into Disneyland. 

The vast majority of Scotland’s GDP is earned by non-Scottish domiciled companies, Many would never pay any or full corporate tax in an independent Scotland and certainly would continue to distribute post tax earnings to non-Scottish investors.

There is very little retained prosperity or wealth here. That’s a huge problem.

Many Scottish producers, such as oil and gas and distillers, are domiciled elsewhere and might have production or extraction in Scotland but earn huge ‘added-value’ in the supply chain outwith Scotland so we don’t see that benefit either as it’s accounted for in their home jurisdiction.

All our major retailers, that are typically located ‘out of town’ and benefit from low rents, huge NDR subsidies and other benefits thereby creating ‘super-profits’, are ‘cross border’. The only benefit we see is subsistence employment, a major reason for our health, substance abuse, educational attainment and poverty issues, dependence on state support and a lack of ‘hope, aspiration and ambition’.

That’s all because of the dramatic reduction in Scottish indigenous ‘business’ and retained wealth in the last 25 + years.

Stripping out inward investment, Scotland is probably the poorest and the most dependent country in Europe and it’s time our government realised the consequences of a woeful lack of support for indigenous SME entrepreneurs and ventures. Just look at Norway’s commerce and industry. They had far more oil and gas than Scotland/UK per capita but also kept all their indigenous businesses with virtually no foreign ‘brands’ allowed in.

Scandinavian, Baltic and smaller European countries, held up by SNP as ‘models’ for independence, do the opposite to ScotGov and benevolently protect indigenous business, vigorously excluding inward investment by ‘cross border’ businesses unless they don’t compete with local enterprises or they exports and earn foreign currency for the small country.

We need to waken up to the reality that Scotland’s GDP is a grand illusion and our government have abjectly failed to support indigenous business.

Interesting piece FS but I'm guessing it's not yours' ("alone") ..... out of interest, where did it come from and who was involved in putting it together. If "green renewable" energy is the way forward history will only repeat itself if you only substitute Green and Renewable for what happened with Oil and Gas. Scotland has only ever been needed/wanted for what it can generate and create in land and produce, whisky, coal, oil, gas and water (in the same way that BP and Shell etc went initially into the Middle East before those areas/countries took back control). Scotland needs a far better and fairer return for what it has whether that be continuing as part of the UK or Independently.

[antrin]

20 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

Interesting piece FS but I'm guessing it's not yours' ("alone") ..... out of interest, where did it come from and who was involved in putting it together. If "green renewable" energy is the way forward history will only repeat itself if you only substitute Green and Renewable for what happened with Oil and Gas. Scotland has only ever been needed/wanted for what it can generate and create in land and produce, whisky, coal, oil, gas and water (in the same way that BP and Shell etc went initially into the Middle East before those areas/countries took back control). Scotland needs a far better and fairer return for what it has whether that be continuing as part of the UK or Independently.

Of course, it’s not his!  🤣

it is spelled correctly, is not littered with redundant commas and makes sense.

In the same manner as he posts pix on here and hopes he’ll get full credit, without crediting an original source!

Apart from the opening line, it’s nicked.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ron-smith-a0a06116_recommendation-to-increase-shortage-occupation-activity-7057604817661108224-C0q9

 

[WeeBud]

14 minutes ago, antrin said:

Of course, it’s not his!  🤣

it is spelled correctly, is not littered with redundant commas and makes sense.

In the same manner as he posts pix on here and hopes he’ll get full credit, without crediting an original source!

Apart from the opening line, it’s nicked.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ron-smith-a0a06116_recommendation-to-increase-shortage-occupation-activity-7057604817661108224-C0q9

 

Not from that link it's not unless something odd happens on my laptop when I try to get into it.........

[faraway saint]

32 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

Not from that link it's not unless something odd happens on my laptop when I try to get into it.........

It's from LinkedIn mate. 

Poor tantrum, what a mess he is. 😂😂😂

[bazil85]

23 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Aye, Independence, we'll all be better off......................., maybe if we turned Scotland into Disneyland. 

The vast majority of Scotland’s GDP is earned by non-Scottish domiciled companies, Many would never pay any or full corporate tax in an independent Scotland and certainly would continue to distribute post tax earnings to non-Scottish investors.

There is very little retained prosperity or wealth here. That’s a huge problem.

Many Scottish producers, such as oil and gas and distillers, are domiciled elsewhere and might have production or extraction in Scotland but earn huge ‘added-value’ in the supply chain outwith Scotland so we don’t see that benefit either as it’s accounted for in their home jurisdiction.

All our major retailers, that are typically located ‘out of town’ and benefit from low rents, huge NDR subsidies and other benefits thereby creating ‘super-profits’, are ‘cross border’. The only benefit we see is subsistence employment, a major reason for our health, substance abuse, educational attainment and poverty issues, dependence on state support and a lack of ‘hope, aspiration and ambition’.

That’s all because of the dramatic reduction in Scottish indigenous ‘business’ and retained wealth in the last 25 + years.

Stripping out inward investment, Scotland is probably the poorest and the most dependent country in Europe and it’s time our government realised the consequences of a woeful lack of support for indigenous SME entrepreneurs and ventures. Just look at Norway’s commerce and industry. They had far more oil and gas than Scotland/UK per capita but also kept all their indigenous businesses with virtually no foreign ‘brands’ allowed in.

Scandinavian, Baltic and smaller European countries, held up by SNP as ‘models’ for independence, do the opposite to ScotGov and benevolently protect indigenous business, vigorously excluding inward investment by ‘cross border’ businesses unless they don’t compete with local enterprises or they exports and earn foreign currency for the small country.

We need to waken up to the reality that Scotland’s GDP is a grand illusion and our government have abjectly failed to support indigenous business.

Replace Scottish with British in practically everything you’ve said & we’ll maybe get the penny dropping on the weakness of this argument. 🤷‍♂️

[bazil85]

General election incoming for July. Bye bye Tories. Let’s hope the masses are not stupid enough to ever vote them into power, ever again.