JJ McG Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 On 21/11/2016 at 7:03 PM, div said: He inherited a shambolic Alloa Athletic side, ironically one built by Danny Lennon. They were already doomed when he took over and despite a marked improvement they were relegated. The next season, having built his own team with his own players to suit the system he wants to play, which is a high tempo, high energy pressing game, the Wasps won their opening 12 games of the season. I have to say that gives me hope that the gaffer can trade well. We're not playing THAT badly at the moment, but we're getting no luck at all and individual mistakes are costing us every week. See Langfield versus Dumbarton and then the glaring miss from Sutton against Dunfermline. It really is fine lines in this division. I hope Jack can juggle the pack a bit in January and give us some fresh impetus. The challenge he now has is that unless we can improve results before the window opens, with the players we already have, it could well be too late. So your blaming Ross for today's defeat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 7 minutes ago, TopCat said: Patience even if we get relegated...? Unfortunately, yes. I don't think we will though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: How did Jack Ross do in the January window last season, when he was sitting bottom of the league and with no money to spend? That's what he will be working with again this season, and should we go down at the end of the season he'll have huge budget cuts to contend with again. Tommy Craig had a better win and draw rate! With all due respect to Alloa, we are at this moment in time, still a bigger draw than Alloa and i hope there will be quite a few comings and goings in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 6 minutes ago, TopCat said: If we get relegated, yes. Although there are still loads of points left to play for, for as long as Jack Ross's 0% success rate continues we are beginning to run out of time. We are almost at that point where as well as St Mirren needing to draw and win games to avoid the drop we need teams who are 10-12 points clear of us to lose most of their games as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 Unfortunately, yes. I don't think we will though. Wish I shared your optimism! What's it based on exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 Although there are still loads of points left to play for, for as long as Jack Ross's 0% success rate continues we are beginning to run out of time. We are almost at that point where as well as St Mirren needing to draw and win games to avoid the drop we need teams who are 10-12 points clear of us to lose most of their games as well. Indeed, barring a miracle we are down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, proudtobeabuddy said: With all due respect to Alloa, we are at this moment in time, still a bigger draw than Alloa and i hope there will be quite a few comings and goings in January. Alloa probably had more points on the board by this point in the season than we currently do. 4 points by 3rd December. League record under Jack Ross: 6 defeats, 0 draws, 0 wins, for 2, against 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) 21 minutes ago, TopCat said: Patience even if we get relegated...? Yup! My opinion with TC, IM and AR was that all three should be given till December and I'd have been happy to see GT be given that option also at the send of 2014/15. AR was sacked too early and I predicted that JR would end up tainted if he was unable to lift us out of relegation trouble. Even so if we get relegated and I reckon that's the most likely outcome this season I'd give the current management team till next December. Edited December 3, 2016 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: Yup! My opinion with TC, IM and AR was that all three should be given till December and I'd have been happy to see GT be given that option also at the send of 2014/15. AR was sacked too early and I predicted that JR would end up tainted if he was unable to lift us out of relegation trouble. Even so if we get relegated and I reckon that's the most likely outcome this season I'd give the current management team till next December. Normally I am in favour of backing the manager, and I would love to see Jack Ross turn things around. That said, I don't think his 0% record in the league could realistically continue until the end of December. He has had a better squad to work with than Alex Rae had this season (Quinn, MacKenzie, Gordon and McAllister have all been fit enough to play league games for Ross) and is doing a lot worse results wise than Rae with a bigger squad to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deekthebuddie Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 Need to check the bookies and see what the odds are for not winning a league game all season. I hate saying it but with the way way we have been so far, I can't see a win in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 Yup! My opinion with TC, IM and AR was that all three should be given till December and I'd have been happy to see GT be given that option also at the send of 2014/15. AR was sacked too early and I predicted that JR would end up tainted if he was unable to lift us out of relegation trouble. Even so if we get relegated and I reckon that's the most likely outcome this season I'd give the current management team till next December. Maybe what will happen is Jack Ross will take us down without a whimper, actually extending the gap between us and safety in his tenure. Then have us 3rd in league 1 in October next year. Then a bigger club will come in and appoint him.Sounds mad doesn't it? Yeah it is. But that's exactly what happened when we took him from Alloa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappy coco Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: Normally I am in favour of backing the manager, and I would love to see Jack Ross turn things around. That said, I don't think his 0% record in the league could realistically continue until the end of December. He has had a better squad to work with than Alex Rae had this season (Quinn, MacKenzie, Gordon and McAllister have all been fit enough to play league games for Ross) and is doing a lot worse results wise than Rae with a bigger squad to choose from. FFS... Give the guy a transfer window at least to sort out this disaster of a squad he's inherited.. Actually I'm fully convinced we wont be relegated this season, we're St Mirren we don't do 3rd tier's.. EVER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, scrappy coco said: FFS... Give the guy a transfer window at least to sort out this disaster of a squad he's inherited.. Actually I'm fully convinced we wont be relegated this season, we're St Mirren we don't do 3rd tier's.. EVER. How did Ross do in the January transfer window last season at Alloa, who were in a similar position? (Actually they probably had more points than we did at the moment). Edited December 3, 2016 by Dibbles old paperboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 22 minutes ago, TopCat said: Wish I shared your optimism! What's it based on exactly? It's based on improved performances, albeit not showing in results so far. It's based on he didn't have the luxury of a pre season to get his philosophy over to the players and finally he hasn't had a transfer window to play with. Let's judge him come the end of the season. Rae was more interested in watching his beloved Rangers on a Friday night than pondering over tactics for ours, he had a transfer window and a pre season and we were still shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 25 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: Alloa probably had more points on the board by this point in the season than we currently do. 4 points by 3rd December. League record under Jack Ross: 6 defeats, 0 draws, 0 wins, for 2, against 12. Huge transfer window for us then isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc_SMFC Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 It's based on improved performances, albeit not showing in results so far. It's based on he didn't have the luxury of a pre season to get his philosophy over to the players and finally he hasn't had a transfer window to play with. Let's judge him come the end of the season. Rae was more interested in watching his beloved Rangers on a Friday night than pondering over tactics for ours, he had a transfer window and a pre season and we were still shite. If we're not picking up points performances haven't improved. Simple as that. For all Rae being shite he done more with the squad than what Ross has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 1 minute ago, gc_SMFC said: If we're not picking up points performances haven't improved. Simple as that. For all Rae being shite he done more with the squad than what Ross has. So far... But as i stated he hasn't had the luxury of a full pre season to implement tactics, try and build a squad etc... He needs time and our BOD will give him it...absolute cert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, TopCat said: Maybe what will happen is Jack Ross will take us down without a whimper, actually extending the gap between us and safety in his tenure. Then have us 3rd in league 1 in October next year. Then a bigger club will come in and appoint him. Sounds mad doesn't it? Yeah it is. But that's exactly what happened when we took him from Alloa. Yeah maybe all that will come to pass, although I reckon that's a poor analogy as nobody would see us being 3rd in the First Division as being reason enough to poach Ross, indeed it'd be closer to sacking form by that stage. *************** I also remember you saying this prior to the last Morton game Quote I think we will lose tonight but to resign ourselves to the relegation playoffs at best if we do is quite clearly ridiculous. On the basis of our form prior to that game and the defeat that night there was no reason to assume that we would be able to turn things around quickly, now I see you are saying Quote Indeed, barring a miracle we are down. I didn't want AR sacked, when he was my choice would have been Dumbarton manager Steve Aitken but we are where we are and I reckon we've got to assume that relegation is the most likely outcome this season and give JR & JF till next December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 If we're not picking up points performances haven't improved. Simple as that. For all Rae being shite he done more with the squad than what Ross has. From what I've seen performances haven't improved at all. Cappielow was the worst performance of the season. Infact Cappielow was the worst performance I've seen from St Mirren in 25 years.At home to Dumbarton and Dunfermline we dominated the ball, but that was mainly due to us conceding and chasing the game whilst our struggling opponents sat back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 I didn't want AR sacked, when he was my choice would have been Dumbarton manager Steve Aitken but we are where we are and I reckon we've got to assume that relegation is the most likely outcome this season and give JR & JF till next December. That was before the Morton game months ago. I certainly never foreseen us losing at home to both Dumbarton and Dunfermline after that, did you?Even though we have lost all these games, we could still stay up. We need investment and a miracle. In all likelihood we will get neither, but it doesn't mean it's impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TopCat said: From what I've seen performances haven't improved at all. Cappielow was the worst performance of the season. Infact Cappielow was the worst performance I've seen from St Mirren in 25 years. At home to Dumbarton and Dunfermline we dominated the ball, but that was mainly due to us conceding and chasing the game whilst our struggling opponents sat back. Im not trying to be argumentative here mate like you i want to see a way out of this hole. Replacing the manager is not the way forward this time. He needs backing from the board. Make no mistake if we go down it will be part time football as such we will be struck there for a while. Seen it all before and its terrible i for one have got that tea shirt which i will not wear again im not living in Paisley anymore to go and watch rubbish is a hassle traveling. Im sure there will be many more like me. Can Gordon Scott afford for that to happen ? I hope not. Edited December 3, 2016 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc_SMFC Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 If we throw money at the team in January, which we should but won't. We narrow the pitch, and realise the most effective way for us to play football is putting the ball directly into dangerous areas for the opposition, whilst pressuring that area to force the opposition to start making the mistakes. We might start getting results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deekthebuddie Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 Didn't the chief engineer of the Titanic once say 'she can't sink' and in sheer desperation stayed with the boat until it went under. I'd love to be able to share the optimism that we won't go down but without a single win and a couple of draws all season I don't see anything so far to give me any optimism that we won't go anywhere but down, and it hurts to say it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whydowebother Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 Didn't the chief engineer of the Titanic once say 'she can't sink' and in sheer desperation stayed with the boat until it went under. I'd love to be able to share the optimism that we won't go down but without a single win and a couple of draws all season I don't see anything so far to give me any optimism that we won't go anywhere but down, and it hurts to say it Agreed and by the end of this month we will have played everyone twice & possibly without a single win, but fear not as apparently we are improving under Ross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 25 minutes ago, TopCat said: That was before the Morton game months ago. I certainly never foreseen us losing at home to both Dumbarton and Dunfermline after that, did you? Even though we have lost all these games, we could still stay up. We need investment and a miracle. In all likelihood we will get neither, but it doesn't mean it's impossible. It was JR's third match in charge after games against Hibs and Dundee Utd., the best two teams in the division and was clearly going to be a watershed game that if we lost would set the tone for the season at least till the January window - we are where I expected us to be, to have envisioned anything else was unrealistic. As usual your mood swings provide comic relief to those of us with more perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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