Bud the Baker Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) Just finished watching The Secret Science Of Pop, a deconstruction of UK Chart History from BBC4 music. Introduced by Professor Armand Leroi a dude with a Ph.D in Evolutionary Biology who attempted to deconstruct songs to their essential components and produce a hit record. One of the main findings was that to be successful then you have to be average - you might have to be close to/at the edge to get noticed but if you want a long career in pop you have to become average pdq - what was special about The Beatles is that they were average right from the start with songs like Love Me Do, unlike say The Kinks and You Really Got Me who were "out there". In analysing the '70's he dismissed Punk as being musically irrelevant and said the most important song of the decade was Autobahn by Kraftwerk which lead to I Feel Love by Donna Summer as example of going from the edge to the mainstream ignoring IMO that the latter song was a fusion of Autobahn and The Great Gig In The Sky by Pink Floyd. The '80's were also an irrelevance musically but he did reckon the emergence of House/Dance Music started then (and he said Cabaret Voltaire were important Mr. EAB). Grunge and Britpop were largely ignored as he tried to tried to convert an Adele style ballad by a Wedding Singer called Nike Jemiyo into a dance track with the help of Trevor Horn. ******************** Interesting program but he didn't take into account the Tribal Nature of music, the Pretty Boy/Girll factor, really didn't examine that great acts/songs change the position of the mainstream in any depth and last but not least, the contrary nature of folk at times. A interesting but flawed program by a clever guy as he was unable to get Ms. Jemiyo onto Radio 1's playlist. Edited March 4, 2017 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 What does he know, these PhD types are all into classical music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 What does he know, these PhD types are all into classical music. Dont know what music they are into, however from experience on this forum these PhD types appear to be cocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 1 minute ago, TPAFKATS said: Dont know what music they are into, however from experience on this forum these PhD types appear to be cocks. COCKney Rebels maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 1 minute ago, linwood buddie said: COCKney Rebels maybe? COCKney Rejects...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: COCKney Rejects...... Them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: Dont know what music they are into, however from experience on this forum these PhD types appear to be cocks. Apart from Drew, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) A load of complete bollocks. I love The Beatles, my favourite song is 'She Said She Said' from 'Revolver'. I own 'Never Mind the Bollocks' and think it is one of the best albums of all time. I own the Firebird Suite by Stravinsky, love it. I have on my iPod 'Don't Stop Movin' by S Club 7 and think it is a wonderful upbeat pop song. I love the Spice Girls 'Two Become One' - the string arrangement is heavenly. I love Buddy Holly's 'Rave On'. Elvis Presley's 'One Night' sends a shiver down my spine. I love heavy rock bands like Stone Sour and Alter Bridge, country bands like Sugarland and Cross Canadian Ragweed, singer-songwriters like Brandi Carlile and Paul Kelly. Who is best? Who is 'average'? Who is... None of them. The guy is a twat, a grade one knobcheese. Edited March 4, 2017 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 BuzzCOCKS. And punk was certainly not irrelevant music wise IMO. Arguably,the likes of Joe Strummer, Jim Kerr, Stuart Adamson and Midge Ure, who all were pivotal in some capacity in 80's "pop music", found their roots in punk music. And that's not even mentioning the undoubted influence of the likes of The Sex Pistols, The Damned and The Vibrators, to mention a few, on other artists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, FTOF said: BuzzCOCKS. And punk was certainly not irrelevant music wise IMO. Arguably,the likes of Joe Strummer, Jim Kerr, Stuart Adamson and Midge Ure, who all were pivotal in some capacity in 80's "pop music", found their roots in punk music. And that's not even mentioning the undoubted influence of the likes of The Sex Pistols, The Damned and The Vibrators, to mention a few, on other artists. The Vibrators can easily claim significant influence , ask a few females. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 COCKney Rebels maybe? COCKney Rejects...... BuzzCOCKS. And punk was certainly not irrelevant music wise IMO. Arguably,the likes of Joe Strummer, Jim Kerr, Stuart Adamson and Midge Ure, who all were pivotal in some capacity in 80's "pop music", found their roots in punk music. And that's not even mentioning the undoubted influence of the likes of The Sex Pistols, The Damned and The Vibrators, to mention a few, on other artists. DICKieS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, FTOF said: BuzzCOCKS. And punk was certainly not irrelevant music wise IMO. Arguably,the likes of Joe Strummer, Jim Kerr, Stuart Adamson and Midge Ure, who all were pivotal in some capacity in 80's "pop music", found their roots in punk music. And that's not even mentioning the undoubted influence of the likes of The Sex Pistols, The Damned and The Vibrators, to mention a few, on other artists. The Ramones, Blondie, Television.... Talking Heads, U2, Skids... Classify 'punk' however you want. To say it wasn't important or of merit is utter tripe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 50 minutes ago, pozbaird said: A load of complete bollocks. I love The Beatles, my favourite song is 'She Said She Said' from 'Revolver'. I own 'Never Mind the Bollocks' and think it is one of the best albums of all time. I own the Firebird Suite by Stravinsky, love it. I have on my iPod 'Don't Stop Movin' by S Club 7 and think it is a wonderful upbeat pop song. I love the Spice Girls 'Two Become One' - the string arrangement is heavenly. I love Buddy Holly's 'Rave On'. Elvis Presley's 'One Night' sends a shiver down my spine. I love heavy rock bands like Stone Sour and Alter Bridge, country bands like Sugarland and Cross Canadian Ragweed, singer-songwriters like Brandi Carlile and Paul Kelly. Who is best? Who is 'average'? Who is... None of them. The guy is a twat, a grade one knobcheese. Like I said it was a flawed program mainly because he never fully explained what his algorithms were, just vague allusions to "beats per minute" and aggression within the music and factors like use of electric guitars, drum machines etc. However he had some points regarding say The Beatles who are remembered today more for their albums (where he & you agree) and later work than the hit singles from the "Moptop Period" - how often do Please, Please Me or I Feel Fine get mentioned today? Who is best - It was a program about Chart History so obviously The Beatles & Elvis with 17 No. 1 singles (apologies if this info is out of date). Who is average - Like I said he never really fully explained it but he did show how certain factors/styles were dominant at various times and showed how Taylor Swift's work contained many of the factors prevalent in today's music. I'd say he made a fair point about Autobahn being the most important song from the '70's with respect to it's subsequent influence on chart history. To repeat myself it was a flawed program because it never really established the scientific basis by which pop success could be guaranteed (see poor Ms Jemiyo) and fell back upon anecdotal ramblings. There's no science to getting a hit single, it's still a matter of alchemy - same as it ever was! ***************** In the end you like what you like and if you want a square go I'll meet you in that alley in Brighton where Phil Daniels shagged Leslie Ash - you name the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 The program was about Chart History and success - how many of the Punk bands mentioned had substantial chart success while remaining true to the Year Zero ethos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: a matter of alchemy - same as it ever was! same as it ever was! same as it ever was! same as it ever was! And you may find yourself one dark night down a Brighton Alley.... same as it ever was! same as it ever was! same as it ever was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Currently reading Steve Turner's "Beatles '66: The Revolutionary Year" which makes the point that whether you like them or not they were hardly average in how they wrote or recorded. His book walks with the band from January to December 1966 as they decided to give up touring (at that time their most lucrative side of their career) and concentrate on spending more time experimenting in the studio and chasing after making sounds which had never been on record before and broadening out the subject matter being tackled in their lyrics. In the studio that year they broke the mould when recording the Paperback Writer / Rain single alongside the Revolver album an album where they moved on to raise political points (Taxman), quote from the Tibetan Book of the Dead (Tomorrow Never Knows) discuss LSD trips (Doctor Robert, She Said, She Said, Got To Get You Into My Life), loneliness and mortality (Eleanor Rigby) as well as throwing in children's song (Yellow Submarine) and elements of Indian music and Eastern spirituality on some of George Harrison's compositions. What they wrote about, and how they went about recording it and even how they went about promoting it was changing fast and whatever else you say about them was hardly average for the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, antrin said: same as it ever was! same as it ever was! same as it ever was! And you may find yourself one dark night down a Brighton Alley.... same as it ever was! same as it ever was! same as it ever was! I can never resist a cute arse allusion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: Currently reading Steve Turner's "Beatles '66: The Revolutionary Year" which makes the point that whether you like them or not they were hardly average in how they wrote or recorded. His book walks with the band from January to December 1966 as they decided to give up touring (at that time their most lucrative side of their career) and concentrate on spending more time experimenting in the studio and chasing after making sounds which had never been on record before and broadening out the subject matter being tackled in their lyrics. In the studio that year they broke the mould when recording the Paperback Writer / Rain single alongside the Revolver album an album where they moved on to raise political points (Taxman), quote from the Tibetan Book of the Dead (Tomorrow Never Knows) discuss LSD trips (Doctor Robert, She Said, She Said, Got To Get You Into My Life), loneliness and mortality (Eleanor Rigby) as well as throwing in children's song (Yellow Submarine) and elements of Indian music and Eastern spirituality on some of George Harrison's compositions. What they wrote about, and how they went about recording it and even how they went about promoting it was changing fast and whatever else you say about them was hardly average for the time. Sorry for the sensational red top thread title but like I said only one of the songs you mention was a hit single during Beatlemania - they're not remembered primarily for the early hit singles. Edited March 4, 2017 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) It possibly depends on who is doing the remembering. Each 'hit single' furnished the soundtrack to my 'growing up' into the mature demi-god, that I now am. In my life, I love them more. Edited March 4, 2017 by antrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, antrin said: It possibly depends on who is doing the remembering. Each 'hit single' furnished the soundtrack to my 'growing up' into the mature demi-god, that I now am. In my life, I love them more. .............and yet the line you quote comes from an album track from Rubber Sole! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 It was an afterthought to give you material with which to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: Sorry for the sensational red top thread title but like I said only one of the songs you mention was a hit single during Beatlemania - they're not remembered for the early hit singles. Paperback Writer b/w Rain - UK No.1 single (June 1966) Eleanor Rigby / Yellow Submarine - UK No.1 double A-side single (August 1966) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Blair Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 15 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: .............and yet the line you quote comes from an album track from Rubber Sole! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: Paperback Writer b/w Rain - UK No.1 single (June 1966) Eleanor Rigby / Yellow Submarine No.1 double A-side single (August 1966) Again it all comes to definitions I'd have argued that by the time of Eleanor Rigby in August 1966 they were already on their final US tour in the wake of Lennon's "more popular than Jesus" remark. If I'd realized Paberback Writer was that late then I'd have said none. For arguments sake I'm defining Beatlemania in terms of their singles as being from Please, Please Me, to Help in mid-65. Neither of your picks fall into the "boy meets girl" category. Tell ye what after poz had beaten me up down in Brighton you can have a few kicks at my prone body. Edited March 4, 2017 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Eric Arthur Blair said: .............and yet the line you quote comes from an album track from Rubber Sole! I'm doing this on the hoof ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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