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St.Ricky

Paisley Saint Mirren

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On 5/29/2018 at 2:23 PM, helpmaboab said:

Why does the name St.Mirren sound shit?

Yeah, it is the religious 'overtone'. Can't avoid it with the St. prefix, whether you like it or not. Just the way it is, plus it's the name of an old catholic monk, whether you like it or not.

Rangers 2    Old Catholic Monk 3

:D

A perceived religious overtone, that strangely seems to be coming mostly from your good self.  We should also ban Santa (St Nicholas)  Forget Scotland's Patron saint (St Andrew) and ban the big dugs, that help rescue lost climbers with wee barrels of booze or baccy, round their necks (Saint Bernard)   The only problems with Saint/ST seem to be rooted in certain parts of communities, that have a few more brain cells missing than most normal, rational people that don't let bigotry get in the way of things, or that get offended by perceived overtones that few others do.  Seems to be more of YOUR OWN perception that needs to be addressed.  Just my own opinion.

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2 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

Back on topic, LEAVE OUR FECKIN NAME ALONE!!!!

Now that's more like it after diversions into the pros and cons of religion, the Greek stems of the vocabulary used and other stuff. 

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2 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:


 

 


No, it isn't. Atheism (which is a word that really shouldn't exist), is the lack of belief in a deity. It is made up of the word "theism", the belief in a deity, and the Greek prefix "a", which negates the next part of the word. In other words, "a"=no, "theism"=belief in a deity, so "atheism"= no belief in a deity. It is not a claim to a belief, it is a claim to a lack of belief.



Agnosticism is a claim about knowledge, not belief, and is therefore unrelated to theism/atheism. It is NOT a half way house between theism and atheism. A gnostic claims to KNOW something, an agnostic claims to NOT KNOW. Again, like above, agnostic uses the Greek prefix "a" to negate. You can get gnostic and agnostic theists, and gnostic and agnostic atheists. A gnostic theist claims that they KNOW that there is a god and therefore they BELIEVE in a god. An agnostic theist claims that they do not KNOW if there is a god but they BELIEVE that there is. A gnostic atheist claims to KNOW that there is no god and therefore doesn't BELIEVE in one. An agnostic atheist claims to not KNOW that there is a god and doesn't BELIEVE in one.

Atheism claims nothing apart from a lack of belief in a deity, it has nothing to do with why/how we are here etc.

Who said that everything came from nothing? How do you know that there can even be nothing? There is no way to show that there can be nothing. If a "nothing" exists then it is a something and therefore not nothing. Maybe it is impossible for there to be nothing. If everything has to come from somewhere, where did god come from? It's a nonsensical argument and special pleading to claim that god, and only god, is exempt from the claim.

Out of curiosity:-
How old do you think the universe is, thousands or billions of years old?
Do you believe that we live in a "snowglobe", as described in the bible?
Do you believe that all 7.5bn+ of us are descended from the only 8 people who survived a worldwide flood about 4,500 years ago?

 

Thanks for your rant - but in terms of religious belief there is a spectrum from those who believe in an all powerful creator God (deity), through to some who are not sure, (The agnostics) all the way to those who believe that there is no "creator God" (As you put it "lack of belief in a deity")

The truth is you are not curious about me or my beliefs one little bit and that is fine... but in stead you are happy to spout your own beliefs … your curiosity questions are merely an attempt to put down my beliefs even before you know what they are - i.e. you have attributed your perceptions of my beliefs on to me in the form of tedious and untrue perceptions. - I would love to know where in the Bible you came across the idea of us living in a snowglobe - I think you were reading the wrong book....

Anyway we are all entitled to believe what ever we like - even if it is nonsense, like the tooth fairy or aliens or the world just being here by chance...

Within the essence of God is Him being the ultimate creator, having designed and made people, plants animals and the cosmos - if you don't believe that, there is no other credible possibility that does not require even more faith than a believe in God has. i.e. How did all the chemicals get there to say create the big bang? Dawkins said perhaps aliens brought them - but how did the aliens come to exist then? Daaaaaaah don't know.....

I am not curious about what you believe - but I think you should research carbon dating and how often the scale is realigned; (as are regularly believed scientific theories, which claim to have it all sussed out,  then think about things like fossilised creatures we got told that were millions of years old, but then  get discovered miraculously unevolved in our time (like the Coelacanths - see below)

Coelacanths were thought to have become extinct in the Late Cretaceous, around 66 million years ago, but were rediscovered in 1938 off the coast of South Africa.[6][7]

The coelacanth was long considered a "living fossil" because scientists thought it was the sole remaining member of a taxon otherwise known only from fossils, with no close relations alive,[5] and that it evolved into roughly its current form approximately 400 million years ago.

Do you believe all there is for us is in this life? For what purpose - passing on our genes - how banal...

Personally I do not believe that we can with any great accuracy, as yet measure the age of the universe - I have expertise in instrumentation, and to date no accurate device is available that can do this - so whatever claims are made - they are simply claims based on assumptions and interpretation of data - always utilised to concur with an pre conceived agenda.. sadly then some folk start to believe in stuff that at best is guesswork from clever people....

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2 minutes ago, helpmaboab said:

Ahhhhhh, so I'm starting to get the connection between StMirren/religion/philosophy 

see, things are not always black and white

- remember that nasty red and white chequered shirt

I find it hard to believe that either the StMirren hierarchy/God/ or any rational thinker was responsible for that abomination.

.........yet all three were.....that's the wonder of the universe, just there to mess with your head.

Boaby. Probably your best post to date! 

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3 hours ago, helpmaboab said:

Ahhhhhh, so I'm starting to get the connection between StMirren/religion/philosophy 

see, things are not always black and white

- remember that nasty red and white chequered shirt

I find it hard to believe that either the StMirren hierarchy/God/ or any rational thinker was responsible for that abomination.

.........yet all three were.....that's the wonder of the universe, just there to mess with my head.

Sorted.

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1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said:

If you are not sure then you lack a belief and are therefore an atheist. Gnosticism and theism address two totally different things. Gnosticism and agnosticism are a rigid dichotomy, as are theism and atheism. You either know something or you don't, you either believe something or you don't. There is no half way in either of them.

I have no perceptions on what you believe and so am unable to attribute. I was merely attempting to find out your beliefs.

I'll get back to you about the snowglobe, I'll need to look where it is - but it's definitely there. I can ASSURE you that it is NOT...

Yes, everyone has the right to believe anything they want - and everyone else has the right to ridicule those beliefs.  BUT then some who ridicule are also doing so from a position of ignorance and foolishness - I know nothing about Japanese horticulture other than that there is such a thing as bonsai trees - so to argue much about that topic from my position of ignorance would not be a wise thing to do - To argue that their is no God or that believing in a God is Daft from the position of an atheist is even dafter  - better to ask people who actually know that he exists.. Plenty for you to read and learn - Why not read up on people who discovered that they were wrong - Here is one to get you on the right track - Antony Flew

Why does there have to be a purpose to life?  Without meaning life is meaningless - Myriads of Philosophers have spent their lives trying to find life's meaning and you must think that they were all mad?  However, a good number of them discovered that their search was not in vain.

Most of your "complaints" about science are only descriptions of how science works. If you don't understand that then there is no point in going into it. I am in no way complaining about science - just stating that faith and agenda drive much of theoretical science, which is often dressed up as "fact" - There are plenty Christian and anti Christian scientist who have done and are doing great work - there are also plenty that will be proved wrong in the future too though..

Chemicals to create the big bang? https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiiz43upbjbAhWBPhQKHZhVDdUQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fclearlens.org%2Fi-dint-choose-to-be-an-atheist%2F&psig=AOvVaw0qmrHEw1Ku8fJND0ZtIpO3&ust=1528142771164922 )

What are you talking about? Dawkins "alien" comment was a silly throwaway comment to basically say "we don't know", not a claim that aliens actually brought them.  I think you need to watch the Ben Stiller documentary called EXPELLED - Ben Stiller is Jew but not a practicing believer - He is curious about how people like Dawkins can believe what he believes - so he investigates and wow, a throw away comment - I don't think so - he is genuinely embarrassed and how determined he is to assert his claim that God does not exist, that he believes in ANYTHING that can fit in place in stead - no matter how ridiculous that is - watch it - and learn - he is a very clever ignorant fool.....

Carbon dating is "realigned", as you put it, due to new information (e.g. regarding how much carbon-14 was in the atmosphere at different times in history), it is not a sign of it being wrong, it is to increase accuracy. As I thought, you know very little about Carbon dating - there are several Isotopes used and the new information is the latest guesswork based on the latest and the past assumptions too -juggled to fit in whatever way some academic deems for it now to be correct. Great how Mount St. Helens eruption not too many decades ago had newly created rocks Carbon Dated at hundreds of millions of years old - when a couple of years previously scientists watched them being formed)

"Guesswork from clever peopleAs my father often said "clever people do and believe stupid things too"  He said this every time he was able to point out pertinent examples as we grew up - so that we did not grow up believing rubbish like sheep...    as compared to unsubstantiated claims by uneducated desert dwelling goat  herders? Just asking.  ( Once again a completely crass claim, it is too easy to believe daft propaganda - better to actually investigate all views and actually arrive somewhere with a balanced one - that way you don't have to make ridiculous swipes at folk who don't share your ridiculous views) 

 

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6 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:


 

 


Isaiah 40:22 describes the earth as disc-shaped with the heavens spread out "like a tent", which makes no sense for a sphere.

Daniel 4:10–11 describes how, from a sufficiently high tree, one could see the entire earth,

Matthew 4:8 and Luke 4:5 describe how all the kingdoms of the world can be seen from a high mountain,

In other words, it says several times that the earth is flat.

Genesis 1 describes a dome/firmament over the earth holding back the heavenly waters. It also says that it has windows which were opened to let in the flood water, so the dome/firmament is a physical covering. It also says that the heavenly bodies were placed within the dome.

There is also somewhere, which I can't find at the moment, that says the earth rests on legs.

Put it all together and you get a flat disc on legs that is covered with a dome (with windows to let the rain in) - a snowglobe (admittedly, with windows).

It's basically where the flat earth idea comes from.

 

So you can quote a few verses without understanding their context or the language or style in which they were penned.

The Bible is a library of different kinds of literature - Some of it is Historic information (Some of it verified by non believers like Josephus - a Roman Historian)

Some of it is poetry  which utilised all kind of tricks like Hebrew Parallelism, metaphors, similies which are not to be taken literally - however, you clearly have fallen into that trap. 

I could inform you further - but you should be clever enough to do your own research rather than copying stuff from others who are ignorant..

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2 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:


 

 


Isaiah 40:22 describes the earth as disc-shaped with the heavens spread out "like a tent", which makes no sense for a sphere.

Daniel 4:10–11 describes how, from a sufficiently high tree, one could see the entire earth,

Matthew 4:8 and Luke 4:5 describe how all the kingdoms of the world can be seen from a high mountain,

In other words, it says several times that the earth is flat.

Genesis 1 describes a dome/firmament over the earth holding back the heavenly waters. It also says that it has windows which were opened to let in the flood water, so the dome/firmament is a physical covering. It also says that the heavenly bodies were placed within the dome.

There is also somewhere, which I can't find at the moment, that says the earth rests on legs.

Put it all together and you get a flat disc on legs that is covered with a dome (with windows to let the rain in) - a snowglobe (admittedly, with windows).

It's basically where the flat earth idea comes from.

 

Talking of flat earthers, they've also announced the Pacman theory.

To those of us who do not know WTF they are on about, they say when you reach the edge of the Earth, you teleport to the other side. In footballing terms if Samson and Ross Stewart (GK) were on opposite teams as goalkeepers, if you walked over Samson's goal line you'd re-appear walking out of Stewart's goal, except that everything looks the same as it did before you crossed Samson's line so you wouldn't realise you've teleported.

Not sure which story I prefer. I also have a mate who believes dinosaurs were wiped out by Noah's flood, even though dinosaur fossils have never been found alongside human skeletons.

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32 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Talking of flat earthers, they've also announced the Pacman theory.

To those of us who do not know WTF they are on about, they say when you reach the edge of the Earth, you teleport to the other side. In footballing terms if Samson and Ross Stewart (GK) were on opposite teams as goalkeepers, if you walked over Samson's goal line you'd re-appear walking out of Stewart's goal, except that everything looks the same as it did before you crossed Samson's line so you wouldn't realise you've teleported.

Not sure which story I prefer. I also have a mate who believes dinosaurs were wiped out by Noah's flood, even though dinosaur fossils have never been found alongside human skeletons.

Are you saying it didn't rain for 40 days and 40 nights?  Have you never lived in Scotland. 

Where else would one build an Ark.... in the desert? 

Obviously not... Paisley, Gleniffer Braes to be precise. 

Now about the name of the Club, Stadium, Road and Railway Station.. Where were we... 

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9 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Are you saying it didn't rain for 40 days and 40 nights?  Have you never lived in Scotland. 

Where else would one build an Ark.... in the desert? 

Obviously not... Paisley, Gleniffer Braes to be precise. 

Now about the name of the Club, Stadium, Road and Railway Station.. Where were we... 

There are people who want to  investigate an object, which appears to be the right dimensions of the Ark, which can be seen from above a mountain that is believed to be the "Mount Ararat" in the Bible -trouble is the mountain is in Iran and they cannot get permission.

Scotland was specially designed with amazing drainage - we can cope with 80 days and nights of rain...

The NAME      -                       St. Mirren Football Club

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2 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said:

There are people who want to  investigate an object, which appears to be the right dimensions of the Ark, which can be seen from above a mountain that is believed to be the "Mount Ararat" in the Bible -trouble is the mountain is in Iran and they cannot get permission.

Scotland was specially designed with amazing drainage - we can cope with 80 days and nights of rain...

The NAME      -                       St. Mirren Football Club

That's the middle east for you. Borders keep changing. One day you are in X and the next you are in Y country.  I  note your views on the  name of the Club. What about the Street?  I hesitate to mention it but Greenhill Road has hymnal overtones. "There is a Greenhill far away" Even mentions one of our current sin bin occupants. 

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1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said:

I just knew that you were going to come away with that excuse.      HA HA       :lol:But let's play with it anyway.

What parts are we to take seriously?

What parts are "historic"?

More importantly, what books/chapters/verses that I listed are we not to take seriously?

You should take it all seriously - but don't read it from a position of ignorance or approach it with a  CLOSED MIND

Do some research and it is easy to find out what books are classed as historical etc. BUT even within books, the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic which is the original text has been TRANSLATED for us into English. This can never be done perfectly - meaning is lost... and so words are inserted with good intention but don't really encompass the fullness of what was meant - as an example - in English we have the word LOVE - IN the Greek (New Testament) they have several words for different kinds of love... it is therefore much clearer which love is being spoken about in the original.... BUT you are truly missing the point - Books that are say historical ,still utilise language tools like metaphors etc. as our literature does too.

 

Isaiah 40:22 describes the earth as disc-shaped with the heavens spread out "like a tent", which makes no sense for a sphere.  THE CLUE HERE IS "LIKE A"  - SIMILE

Daniel 4:10–11 describes how, from a sufficiently high tree, one could see the entire earth,    The TREE in the Old Testament is utilised as a dream symbol (Also in Ezekiel) I am glad you pointed out this verse as it is very relevant - it represents the GROWTH and development of psychic life (ref C.  G. Jung ) IF you actually read the text, v10 starts with these are the visions - good clue....   

Matthew 4:8 and Luke 4:5 describe how all the kingdoms of the world can be seen from a high mountain,  LUKE says the devil led Jesus to the highest point in the Temple  -so the mountain is MOUNT ZION which itself is often used as a metaphor in scripture for HEAVEN - in addition we have the devil here - he operates in the "Spiritual Realms" according to scripture - and Jesus is both human and divine in scripture - so isn't it possible that wherever he was, he could "see all the kingdoms of the earth looking down from the Spiritual realm, as God? 

In other words, it says several times that the earth is flat.      NAW IT ACTUALLY DISN'Y  here is a link to help you correct your wrong perception and where that daft idea came from - https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/does-bible-teach-earth-flat/

Genesis 1 describes a dome/firmament over the earth -  TRANSLATION  issue here - but do you really want to know or are you just trying to convince yourself? The firmament is described in Genesis 1:6–8 in the Genesis creation narrative: Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” The FIRMAMENT is the SKY or HEAVENS

 

You are trying hard - but you will need to do a whole lot better or you will fail the MOST IMPORTANT TEST that LIFE offers you...

I genuinely hope that you start doing some proper research, rather than spouting other foolish folks propaganda...

Edited by Sweeper07

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34 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

That's the middle east for you. Borders keep changing. One day you are in X and the next you are in Y country.  I  note your views on the  name of the Club. What about the Street?  I hesitate to mention it but Greenhill Road has hymnal overtones. "There is a Greenhill far away" Even mentions one of our current sin bin occupants. 

The RD should obviously be "MARCHING IN"   … O When the Saints

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44 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Are you saying it didn't rain for 40 days and 40 nights?  Have you never lived in Scotland. 

Where else would one build an Ark.... in the desert? 

Obviously not... Paisley, Gleniffer Braes to be precise. 

Now about the name of the Club, Stadium, Road and Railway Station.. Where were we... 

Of course it'll be built in a desert. If it was decided that the 40 days and nights of rain took place in Scotland we wouldn't bother building an ark because its normality to us. The point was down to his belief of dinosaurs being wiped out by the flood in particular. If that isn't bizarre enough he dismisses the common asteroid dinosaur killer theory while saying Earth can't have formed due to random events, otherwise the chances are it would have randomly been hit by an asteroid by now. 

Club Name - Paisley All Sports Together Yeah - PASTY. Every single major sports team in Paisley can come under the Pasty name, like Real Madrid and Panathinaikos also have basketball teams for instance. Then Pasty can dominate the world as one, whether it be football, basketball, handball or ice hockey. The coincidence of the name would lead to worldwide Pasty companies vying to get the main sponsorship deals, they'll end up in massive bidding wars which will fund our major transfers. Well cooked pasties will bring in extra revenue on match days. We could have a Pasty mascot which the panda beats the shit out of every week. On open days we could have Eat the Pasty, pay an entry fee and see who can eat their Pasty the quickest. The PASTY chant would be akin to that of D-I-S-C-O. This is clearly a win win.

Change the name of the road to Pasty View. The other sports can have Pasty Street, Pasty Avenue, Pasty Way etc. Railway station can be FTOF station, purely so the announcer has to say FTOF every time the train stops there.

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1 minute ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Of course it'll be built in a desert. If it was decided that the 40 days and nights of rain took place in Scotland we wouldn't bother building an ark because its normality to us. The point was down to his belief of dinosaurs being wiped out by the flood in particular. If that isn't bizarre enough he dismisses the common asteroid dinosaur killer theory while saying Earth can't have formed due to random events, otherwise the chances are it would have randomly been hit by an asteroid by now. 

Club Name - Paisley All Sports Together Yeah - PASTY. Every single major sports team in Paisley can come under the Pasty name, like Real Madrid and Panathinaikos also have basketball teams for instance. Then Pasty can dominate the world as one, whether it be football, basketball, handball or ice hockey. The coincidence of the name would lead to worldwide Pasty companies vying to get the main sponsorship deals, they'll end up in massive bidding wars which will fund our major transfers. Well cooked pasties will bring in extra revenue on match days. We could have a Pasty mascot which the panda beats the shit out of every week. On open days we could have Eat the Pasty, pay an entry fee and see who can eat their Pasty the quickest. The PASTY chant would be akin to that of D-I-S-C-O. This is clearly a win win.

Change the name of the road to Pasty View. The other sports can have Pasty Street, Pasty Avenue, Pasty Way etc. Railway station can be FTOF station, purely so the announcer has to say FTOF every time the train stops there.

Now we have sheer brilliance.  We can then establish a Divinity College for fans. 

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13 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

Atheism claims nothing apart from a lack of belief in a deity, it has nothing to do with why/how we are here etc.

except in the states where it simply refers to a lack of belief in multiple gods but does not deny who or whatever their true god is .....probably MONEY

 

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4 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:
9 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:
There are people who want to  investigate an object, which appears to be the right dimensions of the Ark, which can be seen from above a mountain that is believed to be the "Mount Ararat" in the Bible -trouble is the mountain is in Iran and they cannot get permission.
Scotland was specially designed with amazing drainage - we can cope with 80 days and nights of rain...
The NAME      -                       St. Mirren Football Club

The ark has been "found" at least a dozen times.

Yeah - Really - so where are they then?   … yes I know all about the flood narrative in various faiths - do you have more OR is this just another blind alley you have wandered down?

Is this your best comeback after your assertion of the ludicrous snowglobe myth, and all the other things that you clearly believed, but are not so confident on now?

It is absolutely ok being sceptical - but it is best to research before you go out on a limb and find yourself falling to the ground - or as the Bible says, "building your life (and your beliefs) upon the sand" - it will come crashing down... having looked at where you got informed from previously - isn't it about time you looked elsewhere before you start heading down another dead end?

Come on you are smarter than this surely?

Don't you want to be more certain that you are right before climbing out on that branch, and know that it can support your weight?

My desire is not to make fun of you - I am setting you a challenge in order that YOU benefit...

Is your intention towards me a good one?

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16 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:
9 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:
There are people who want to  investigate an object, which appears to be the right dimensions of the Ark, which can be seen from above a mountain that is believed to be the "Mount Ararat" in the Bible -trouble is the mountain is in Iran and they cannot get permission.
Scotland was specially designed with amazing drainage - we can cope with 80 days and nights of rain...
The NAME      -                       St. Mirren Football Club

The ark has been "found" at least a dozen times.

I have given you an answer above - but sadly have to go away on business for a few days... I am enjoying our exchange though...

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33 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

That's interesting - especially since muslims believe in the flood and it would be a major coup to Iran if it was found to be in their territory.

Then again, maybe they already know it isn't and prefer others to be "left in the dark".  After all, they would get more "attention for a "might be" rather than a "definitely isn't".

Abrahamic religions clearly have common thread's.  Judaism,  Christianity and Islam have a common stem. As to Mount Ararat, Google earth might help....although I did not actually use it to check. From Turkey eastwards places feature in the bible and in particular around modern day Israel, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan and others. A real melting pot of cultures and religions. None of which deals with the name of the street,"station or ground. Just saying.

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12 hours ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Of course it'll be built in a desert. If it was decided that the 40 days and nights of rain took place in Scotland we wouldn't bother building an ark because its normality to us. The point was down to his belief of dinosaurs being wiped out by the flood in particular. If that isn't bizarre enough he dismisses the common asteroid dinosaur killer theory while saying Earth can't have formed due to random events, otherwise the chances are it would have randomly been hit by an asteroid by now. 

Club Name - Paisley All Sports Together Yeah - PASTY. Every single major sports team in Paisley can come under the Pasty name, like Real Madrid and Panathinaikos also have basketball teams for instance. Then Pasty can dominate the world as one, whether it be football, basketball, handball or ice hockey. The coincidence of the name would lead to worldwide Pasty companies vying to get the main sponsorship deals, they'll end up in massive bidding wars which will fund our major transfers. Well cooked pasties will bring in extra revenue on match days. We could have a Pasty mascot which the panda beats the shit out of every week. On open days we could have Eat the Pasty, pay an entry fee and see who can eat their Pasty the quickest. The PASTY chant would be akin to that of D-I-S-C-O. This is clearly a win win.

Change the name of the road to Pasty View. The other sports can have Pasty Street, Pasty Avenue, Pasty Way etc. Railway station can be FTOF station, purely so the announcer has to say FTOF every time the train stops there.

The other alternative is simply to change the name of the town to St.Mirren....you know it makes sense. Then follow the lead given by the teams you mention. We already have St Mirren Basketball. What's wrong with ice hockey, netball, dominoes etx

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