Kibble/SMiSA Partnership

[Lord Pityme]

Kibble chief executive Jim Gillespie said: "The purpose of our proposal is to step up Kibble's young workforce development programme and improve the future prospects of our young people, including employability options, skills and qualifications."

Not seeing much about st mirren there, ah well what could possibly go wrong?

Most of the young people Kibble work with arent from the Paisley community.

[WeeBud]

3 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Kibble chief executive Jim Gillespie said: "The purpose of our proposal is to step up Kibble's young workforce development programme and improve the future prospects of our young people, including employability options, skills and qualifications."

Not seeing much about st mirren there, ah well what could possibly go wrong?

Most of the young people Kibble work with arent from the Paisley community.

In the interests of balance and fairness, his fuller explanation :-

 

Kibble's Jim Gillespie explains why he believes the partnership between SMISA, Kibble and St Mirren will be good for all involved....

 

Here at Kibble we are excited about our proposed partnership with SMISA to ensure St Mirren Football Club is owned by the fans and the opportunity to create an environment that can bring meaningful change, to the lives of young people in care at Kibble, to St Mirren Football Club and to the wider Paisley community.

 

This new partnership will allow us to grow the business of St Mirren and at the same time increase Kibble’s opportunities for employment, training and education as well as access to sport, health and wellbeing support.

 

Kibble will bring our commercial expertise to St Mirren, creating a dynamic partnership and complementing the existing set up by offering the support and expertise that a large charity has in areas such as HR, finance, marketing and communications. The strength in this partnership will help bring in new income to be reinvested in the team, which in turn will generate more non-footballing income to create a sustainable business model for the Club going forward.

 

This pioneering venture could also help address local deprivation and exclusion through youth employment, community engagement, initiatives and activities bringing significant benefits to the young people in Kibble and in the community.

 

We will strengthen Kibble’s young workforce development including employability programmes, volunteering support, traineeships and apprenticeships to provide wider opportunities between local schools and businesses.  It will offer young people from Kibble and the wider community support, tuition, training and confidence that they need to get a job.

 

If this proposal receives the support of the members of SMISA, this will be an incredibly exciting time for our charity as we combine the youth-centred, educational and commercial expertise of Kibble, with St. Mirren’s first-class sporting facilities and national profile to develop a dynamic partnership. At the centre of this will be a young workforce development model that will continue to thrive, with increased job prospects for our young people, and young people in the community aligned with the current job market.

 

At the heart of this proposal is the SMISA-Kibble partnership. This brings together two organisations with shared values, a not-for-profit ethos and the belief in the model of community ownership. We have worked hard with SMISA to create a deal that preserves those principles and we hope the SMISA members vote in favour to make a reality the exciting possibilities this creates for us all.

 

I look forward to hearing what SMISA members think

 

Jim Gillespie
Chief Executive
Kibble

[bazil85]

18 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

In the interests of balance and fairness, his fuller explanation :-

 

Kibble's Jim Gillespie explains why he believes the partnership between SMISA, Kibble and St Mirren will be good for all involved....

 

Here at Kibble we are excited about our proposed partnership with SMISA to ensure St Mirren Football Club is owned by the fans and the opportunity to create an environment that can bring meaningful change, to the lives of young people in care at Kibble, to St Mirren Football Club and to the wider Paisley community.

 

This new partnership will allow us to grow the business of St Mirren and at the same time increase Kibble’s opportunities for employment, training and education as well as access to sport, health and wellbeing support.

 

Kibble will bring our commercial expertise to St Mirren, creating a dynamic partnership and complementing the existing set up by offering the support and expertise that a large charity has in areas such as HR, finance, marketing and communications. The strength in this partnership will help bring in new income to be reinvested in the team, which in turn will generate more non-footballing income to create a sustainable business model for the Club going forward.

 

This pioneering venture could also help address local deprivation and exclusion through youth employment, community engagement, initiatives and activities bringing significant benefits to the young people in Kibble and in the community.

 

We will strengthen Kibble’s young workforce development including employability programmes, volunteering support, traineeships and apprenticeships to provide wider opportunities between local schools and businesses.  It will offer young people from Kibble and the wider community support, tuition, training and confidence that they need to get a job.

 

If this proposal receives the support of the members of SMISA, this will be an incredibly exciting time for our charity as we combine the youth-centred, educational and commercial expertise of Kibble, with St. Mirren’s first-class sporting facilities and national profile to develop a dynamic partnership. At the centre of this will be a young workforce development model that will continue to thrive, with increased job prospects for our young people, and young people in the community aligned with the current job market.

 

At the heart of this proposal is the SMISA-Kibble partnership. This brings together two organisations with shared values, a not-for-profit ethos and the belief in the model of community ownership. We have worked hard with SMISA to create a deal that preserves those principles and we hope the SMISA members vote in favour to make a reality the exciting possibilities this creates for us all.

 

I look forward to hearing what SMISA members think

 

Jim Gillespie
Chief Executive
Kibble

As if LPM is going to take that into consideration, it would debunk almost every argument he's ever made against SMISA and GLS. 

He's can't see the benefit to the Kibble in having a strong St Mirren, his posts are showing he is literally incapable of processing this. 

[waldorf34]

Can we have all this under Smisa area?

[Lord Pityme]

Can we have all this under Smisa area?

Surely you mean we should all be in the Kibble?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

As if LPM is going to take that into consideration, it would debunk almost every argument he's ever made against SMISA and GLS. 
He's can't see the benefit to the Kibble in having a strong St Mirren, his posts are showing he is literally incapable of processing this. 

To be fair to LPM, and I'm not generally in agreement with him, the quote from kibble chief actually supports LPM argument that kibble see this venture as a way to get access to our facilities.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Can we merge this with the thread on the smisa forum?

[bazil85]

3 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

As if LPM is going to take that into consideration, it would debunk almost every argument he's ever made against SMISA and GLS. 
He's can't see the benefit to the Kibble in having a strong St Mirren, his posts are showing he is literally incapable of processing this. 

To be fair to LPM, and I'm not generally in agreement with him, the quote from kibble chief actually supports LPM argument that kibble see this venture as a way to get access to our facilities.

I wouldn't say that's remotely a bad thing though. LPM has banged on for years at how he (apparently) cares so much about the community and we should be more focused on that. In light of this arrangement, he's now changed his opinion, that it's now a bad thing that some of the most vulnerable people in society, might get access to sports facilities to improve their situation. 

His hypocrite levels are off the charts. Seen it before regarding the Christmas meal money vote. He does not care in the slightest about community and helping the vulnerable, his default is automatically anti-SMISA,/ GLS/ BTB and often SMFC. 

[Lord Pityme]

To be fair to LPM, and I'm not generally in agreement with him, the quote from kibble chief actually supports LPM argument that kibble see this venture as a way to get access to our facilities.

It's quite obvious really. They want to use the club to expand what they do. Nothing wrong in that, but it means they, as per their goals and aim arent in the business of making football clubs better to the detriment of their own organisation.

Likewise if smfc invested in Kibble, it would be to improve smfc, not necessarily Kibble.

[bazil85]

3 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

It's quite obvious really. They want to use the club to expand what they do. Nothing wrong in that, but it means they, as per their goals and aim arent in the business of making football clubs better to the detriment of their own organisation.

Likewise if smfc invested in Kibble, it would be to improve smfc, not necessarily Kibble.

Yet still can't see how the two is correlated and mutually beneficial... Staggering. 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I wouldn't say that's remotely a bad thing though. LPM has banged on for years at how he (apparently) cares so much about the community and we should be more focused on that. In light of this arrangement, he's now changed his opinion, that it's now a bad thing that some of the most vulnerable people in society, might get access to sports facilities to improve their situation. 
His hypocrite levels are off the charts. Seen it before regarding the Christmas meal money vote. He does not care in the slightest about community and helping the vulnerable, his default is automatically anti-SMISA,/ GLS/ BTB and often SMFC. 

I'm not saying it's good or bad, just that it supports what he said.
I asked on the other thread on smisa forum what's in it for kibble. The statement from their chief is like a politicians manifesto, full of standard vague statements.

Although there are benefits, mainly getting fan control quicker and with less financial outlay, lot of questions remain as far as I can see.

[beyond our ken]

5 hours ago, munoz said:

If anything,  I imagine the complete opposite will happen. 

Imagining is good

 

especially when facts are not known 

[bazil85]

1 minute ago, TPAFKATS said:

I'm not saying it's good or bad, just that it supports what he said.
I asked on the other thread on smisa forum what's in it for kibble. The statement from their chief is like a politicians manifesto, full of standard vague statements.

Although there are benefits, mainly getting fan control quicker and with less financial outlay, lot of questions remain as far as I can see.

Yep, it does support what he says, my point is the context of what he has said. Today has again proven his personality represents a vendetta regarding BTB/ SMISA/ GLS and there is no care for the community that trumps that, his mask has yet again slipped. 

I completely agree there's more questions and more to be understood. Hopefully comes out over the next few weeks. 

[portmahomack saint]

2 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I wouldn't say that's remotely a bad thing though. LPM has banged on for years at how he (apparently) cares so much about the community and we should be more focused on that. In light of this arrangement, he's now changed his opinion, that it's now a bad thing that some of the most vulnerable people in society, might get access to sports facilities to improve their situation. 

His hypocrite levels are off the charts. Seen it before regarding the Christmas meal money vote. He does not care in the slightest about community and helping the vulnerable, his default is automatically anti-SMISA,/ GLS/ BTB and often SMFC. 

Do they not get access already without the need to sell the fans promised shareholding, 

[bazil85]

6 minutes ago, portmahomack saint said:

Do they not get access already without the need to sell the fans promised shareholding, 

I think they do, from my understanding of this deal, there seems to be perceived additional mutual benefits and options for growth both by the club and Kibble in what will ultimately be a partnership.

Certainly not reading anything that suggests the benefits will all be one sided & that wouldn't be in the long-term interest of the Kibble either. 

[Sonny]

32 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

As if LPM is going to take that into consideration, it would debunk almost every argument he's ever made against SMISA and GLS. 
He's can't see the benefit to the Kibble in having a strong St Mirren, his posts are showing he is literally incapable of processing this. 

To be fair to LPM, and I'm not generally in agreement with him, the quote from kibble chief actually supports LPM argument that kibble see this venture as a way to get access to our facilities.

Of course they do. It is part of their remit to foster health and work experience for youngsters. It is a joint project with SmiSA being the controlling partner.

 

St Mirren and Kibble are two of Paisley’s oldest organisations – this deal would bring them together to benefit of the community of Paisley. Kibble’s reason for being is to help the young people in their care. The majority of those young people go on to jobs in leisure and hospitality. Kibble see St Mirren as the ideal place to give those young people employment, training and education opportunities plus sport, health and wellbeing support, while raising awareness of what Kibble do.

In doing so they believe they could – as St Mirren’s part-owners – bring new expertise to the club which will help take St Mirren to the next level as a business and strengthen its place at the heart of the Paisley community. They believe they can help the club, create a more sustainable business model, strengthen how it is governed, and bring in more non-football income which could be reinvested into the team.

Some of these improvements would be immediate. Kibble would make available to St Mirren their support services staff from areas such as finance, legal services, HR, IT, marketing and PR. This would free up the club’s existing staff to focus on their core jobs and areas of expertise and save the club money. It is hoped this extra support would also allow St Mirren to improve the overall fan experience through better customer service and communications.

Kibble’s maintenance team could put in place a planned maintenance regime for club facilities, as they do with Kibble’s existing buildings, which would significantly reduce the club’s costs and increase the lifespan of St Mirren’s facilities.

As part-owners Kibble would consider how they could use their commercial and fundraising expertise and wide range of contacts to help attract new partnerships and income. That would include helping the club improve existing facilities and increase the use of stadium outside of matchdays. Kibble can also offer support to SMISA to help us further professionalise how we are run.

Over the long-term Kibble are keen to investigate how the stadium might be used as a base for new facilities which could potentially put it at the heart of wider development in Ferguslie Park and help bring new jobs to the area.

For us, a key point is as part-owners, Kibble fortunes would be tied to St Mirren’s – so the better St Mirren are doing, the greater the benefit for Kibble. It will be in their interest as much as ours to help deliver the thing every St Mirren fan most wants to see – a winning team on the park. You read this letter to SMISA members from Kibble chief executive Jim Gillespie on how he sees it working.

[waldorf34]

My bottom line is WHY are we doing this. Fan ownership  can be greatly improved if zsmisa sell their shares to more fans than the 1300 add that to their pot and still be in a position to buy out GS next year  why bring in a third party,this is a football club

[portmahomack saint]

2 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I think they do, from my understanding of this deal, there seems to be perceived additional mutual benefits and options for growth both by the club and Kibble in what will ultimately be a partnership.

Certainly not reading anything that suggests the benefits will all be one sided & that wouldn't be in the long-term interest of the Kibble either. 

There's also a Mutual agreement clause on major decisions that both smisa and the Kibble directors must agree on,  That's not the fan ownership model that was sold to us in 2016. so for that reason (as they say in dragons den) am out,  

[Bud the Baker]

11 minutes ago, waldorf34 said:

My bottom line is WHY are we doing this. Fan ownership  can be greatly improved if zsmisa sell their shares to more fans than the 1300 add that to their pot and still be in a position to buy out GS next year  why bring in a third party,this is a football club

Kibble are obviously not in this for altruistic reasons but it does seem that the club & it's resources fit well with their organisation & it's stated aims. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Bud the Baker

[Kombibuddie]

2 hours ago, div said:

I'd be very hopeful that the reverse is true. More St.Mirren supporters should be looking to join the trust now that they know fan ownership is now just 2 years away rather than 7.

SMISA will have the funds available in 2023 (3 years away) if their projections (based on membership subscriptions at last years SMISA AGM). As we've been told repeatedly over the past 12 months, there has been no significant drop off in SMISA members. Therefore, with 1250 (or thereabouts) members, SMISA will be able to realise the buyout just short of 4 years ahead of schedule.

Whilst I agree, 51% or 71% makes no great difference in terms of who has the controlling stake in St Mirren FC, I believed the purpose of BTB was to safeguard the club by bringing it into fan ownership. With SMISA members, we are virtually guaranteed St Mirren supporters will form the Club BOD. With 2 representatives from Kibble on the BOD, there is no guarantee of that. Even when vetted by SMISA, I doubt Kibble will have an obligation to have St Mirren fans as their reps on the board. The waters darken. 

For me, it's simple, lets keep going for the next 3 years or so under the current arrangement. When SMISA has the finances to buy out GLS' shares, buy him out.

Don't mess about, get it done and get a SMISA appointed BOD in place. There will be no need for Kibble representation on the BoD and there will be more representation from the fans.

Once owned by the fans, The new St Mirren Board can work collaboratively with Kibble for the benefit of both organisations without having to compromise their % of ownership.

I bought into BTB, not a revised BTB that brings in a 3rd party.

[bazil85]

10 minutes ago, portmahomack saint said:

There's also a Mutual agreement clause on major decisions that both smisa and the Kibble directors must agree on,  That's not the fan ownership model that was sold to us in 2016. so for that reason (as they say in dragons den) am out,  

One of the reasons it's going to a democratic vote to see if we want to do this. Personally hope that regardless of how that vote goes, people will respect the majority view and continue with their commitment. 

The mutual agreement clause is just common sense IMO and I don't see much scenario in which it ever being to the detriment of SMFC or the Kibble. 

[Sonny]

12 minutes ago, waldorf34 said:

My bottom line is WHY are we doing this. Fan ownership  can be greatly improved if zsmisa sell their shares to more fans than the 1300 add that to their pot and still be in a position to buy out GS next year  why bring in a third party,this is a football club

WHY?

SMISA created the #BuyTheBuds campaign because there could be no better owners than the people who will care for the club most – you, the fans.

- this delivers majority fan ownership in half the time and for around half the cost we first thought – but crucially it delivers it better;

- we will be in partnership with an organisation who can help St Mirren grow as a business – creating new income to be reinvested into the football team;

- Kibble share our values – neither of us wants to make profit for ourselves – we want a club which benefits the community;

- the club will be owned by the fans and run by those best qualified. SMISA will be able to shape the future direction of the club – and put in place people we trust to run it on our behalf;

- as a member you are not only helping deliver the buyout, but once we own the club you will continue to have a vote on all SMISA issues, and your views will be represented in club decisions;

Further information https://www.smisa.net/buythebuds/kibble-faq

 

I am not sure what you mean with your second question. SMiSA currently own shares but are not the controlling interest - Gordon Scott is. SMiSA in theory could buy more shares with the money they have assuming someone was willing to sell. GLS is the major shareholder and he has agreed to sell his share to SMiSA in 2026. Any shares purchased from other parties just now would still not give SMiSA a controlling interest and could negate the current BtB agreement. Any fan can still join BuyTheBuds - most fans choose not to. And any fan can buy shares if they can find a seller.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Of course they do. It is part of their remit to foster health and work experience for youngsters. It is a joint project with SmiSA being the controlling partner.
 
St Mirren and Kibble are two of Paisley’s oldest organisations – this deal would bring them together to benefit of the community of Paisley. Kibble’s reason for being is to help the young people in their care. The majority of those young people go on to jobs in leisure and hospitality. Kibble see St Mirren as the ideal place to give those young people employment, training and education opportunities plus sport, health and wellbeing support, while raising awareness of what Kibble do.
In doing so they believe they could – as St Mirren’s part-owners – bring new expertise to the club which will help take St Mirren to the next level as a business and strengthen its place at the heart of the Paisley community. They believe they can help the club, create a more sustainable business model, strengthen how it is governed, and bring in more non-football income which could be reinvested into the team.
Some of these improvements would be immediate. Kibble would make available to St Mirren their support services staff from areas such as finance, legal services, HR, IT, marketing and PR. This would free up the club’s existing staff to focus on their core jobs and areas of expertise and save the club money. It is hoped this extra support would also allow St Mirren to improve the overall fan experience through better customer service and communications.
Kibble’s maintenance team could put in place a planned maintenance regime for club facilities, as they do with Kibble’s existing buildings, which would significantly reduce the club’s costs and increase the lifespan of St Mirren’s facilities.
As part-owners Kibble would consider how they could use their commercial and fundraising expertise and wide range of contacts to help attract new partnerships and income. That would include helping the club improve existing facilities and increase the use of stadium outside of matchdays. Kibble can also offer support to SMISA to help us further professionalise how we are run.
Over the long-term Kibble are keen to investigate how the stadium might be used as a base for new facilities which could potentially put it at the heart of wider development in Ferguslie Park and help bring new jobs to the area.
For us, a key point is as part-owners, Kibble fortunes would be tied to St Mirren’s – so the better St Mirren are doing, the greater the benefit for Kibble. It will be in their interest as much as ours to help deliver the thing every St Mirren fan most wants to see – a winning team on the park. You read this letter to SMISA members from Kibble chief executive Jim Gillespie on how he sees it working.

Yes, as I stated in a previous post. This sounds like a manifesto however I'm not seeing great evidence of what additional opportunities are out there. The second part you've highlighted is a "could".
Again that's highly political in its vagueness and is intended to infer something beneficial will happen, without committing to it... In my opinion.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I think they do, from my understanding of this deal, there seems to be perceived additional mutual benefits and options for growth both by the club and Kibble in what will ultimately be a partnership.
Certainly not reading anything that suggests the benefits will all be one sided & that wouldn't be in the long-term interest of the Kibble either. 

Is it a partnership of equals though?

[bazil85]

3 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

37 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I think they do, from my understanding of this deal, there seems to be perceived additional mutual benefits and options for growth both by the club and Kibble in what will ultimately be a partnership.
Certainly not reading anything that suggests the benefits will all be one sided & that wouldn't be in the long-term interest of the Kibble either. 

Is it a partnership of equals though?

No, SMISA/ St Mirren fans are the bigger partner regarding the club.