Coronavirus

[Sue Denim]

The Welsh Government’s advice on face coverings, which are due to become mandatory on public transport in Wales from July 27th, contains this gem in the section entitled “What is the science behind this advice?”

At the present time, the widespread use of masks by healthy people in the community is not supported by high quality scientific evidence. 

😂😂

[Hendo]

15 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Sturgeon to keep gyms closed so that schools can reopen safely.

Yeh, that makes sense...... 😂

Pubs open gyms closed. And all in the name of health 😂

You couldn’t make it up

clueless 

I think you misunderstand how the virus works.

Scientists have done a psychometric test on Covid, and found young Cov grew up with an alcoholic father, meaning he has a traumatic response to pubs and will never go in there. This is why pubs are open with no requirement to wear masks.

He is, however, a fitness junkie, which makes the opening of gyms particularly dangerous. He has small children, which is why soft play areas can't open, but schools are ok because his wife has agreed to drop of the kids.

The reason the quarantine to Spain has just been lifted, despite prevalence rates trebling in the last two weeks there, is that Cov and his family have just returned from an all inclusive break in Benidorm - his next holiday there isn't till the October school break, so it'll be fine until then.

We just need to keep following the science.

[FTOF]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53484998

Coronavirus: UK's pandemic planning an 'astonishing' failure, say MPs

[jaybee]

17 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Good interview here with Professor Sunetra Gupta, a theoretical epidemiologist at Oxford University.

https://reaction.life/we-may-already-have-herd-immunity-an-interview-with-professor-sunetra-gupta/
 

In it, she states that most of the U.K. will already have reached herd immunity as the levels of infections required to reach herd immunity is much lower than that stated by Imperial College due to cross immunity.

The virus is seasonal and will come back in places where herd immunity has not been reached yet.

the only way we can reduce the risk to the vulnerable people in the population is, for those of us who are able to acquire herd immunity, to do that.
 

It is the duty of young people to go out and become immune.

Lockdown is counter productive and selfish 

 

I believe there was another theoretical bulletproofologist who said standing behind cardboard boxes was guaranteed to stop the bullet from hitting you...........I believe the funeral is next Tuesday.

[bazil85]

41 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Good to see that you acknowledge that your ignorance is mind-blowing.

One of the oldest and least effective argument techniques online. 

I’ve been going to gyms for years.

Then you'll surely appreciate the concerns in virus transmission.

Have you ever been to a pub? 😂

I personally would understand if they hadn't opened pubs yet but it seems far easier to socially distance than a gym. There will always be newspaper stories on a few drunk people but hopefully the exception to the norm. 

All over Europe everything is opened up, schools and businesses, with no rise in infections.
UK has been harder hit than anywhere else in Europe, they are right to reflect that in their cautious approach (well at least Scotland is doing it)

Indeed, certain countries didn’t lockdown at all.  yet you want Scotland to be more English than the English and keep certain businesses closed down.

It's very well established you struggle with different factors impacting different countries. Scotland's strategy by practically all parameters has been very successful recently. I don't hold an economy over human life view like yourself.  

You couldn’t make it up.

But as long as you’re getting your full pay, who cares about those who’ll lose their jobs, eh baz?

I have been working right through this pandemic, regardless of what happens that wont change as I can work remotely (and going forward my role will likely remain a remote one regardless). In other words my view isn't governed by wanting a free ride.

Where this view also falls down, the decision makers are working & have a vested interest in a strong economy. It makes no sense that their view would be to slow the economy unless they felt it necessary. 

 

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

 

He makes a valid point Baz.

You are taking the moral high ground from the comfort of a cushy salary. Maybe if you were one of the millions facing no income you'd be a bit more understanding.

Covid is not a moral problem. It is a health problem where people die no matter what decisions are made. Trying to preach morality over these decisions is ridiculous.

[insaintee]

19 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Good interview here with Professor Sunetra Gupta, a theoretical epidemiologist at Oxford University.

https://reaction.life/we-may-already-have-herd-immunity-an-interview-with-professor-sunetra-gupta/
 

In it, she states that most of the U.K. will already have reached herd immunity as the levels of infections required to reach herd immunity is much lower than that stated by Imperial College due to cross immunity.

The virus is seasonal and will come back in places where herd immunity has not been reached yet.

the only way we can reduce the risk to the vulnerable people in the population is, for those of us who are able to acquire herd immunity, to do that.
 

It is the duty of young people to go out and become immune.

Lockdown is counter productive and selfish 

 

Utter pish 

 

[insaintee]

2 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

The Welsh Government’s advice on face coverings, which are due to become mandatory on public transport in Wales from July 27th, contains this gem in the section entitled “What is the science behind this advice?”

At the present time, the widespread use of masks by healthy people in the community is not supported by high quality scientific evidence. 

😂😂

More BS 

[bazil85]

38 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

He makes a valid point Baz.

You are taking the moral high ground from the comfort of a cushy salary. Maybe if you were one of the millions facing no income you'd be a bit more understanding.

Covid is not a moral problem. It is a health problem where people die no matter what decisions are made. Trying to preach morality over these decisions is ridiculous.

You're right, Covid should be steered by health based decisions. But that means not by economic and not political decisions either. There is the capability for the pandemic to be tackled and to cushion the economic damage on people, politics is what stands in the way of that. 

I assure you employed, furloughed, unemployed I would not be putting personal financial gain over people's health. You can see that as moral high ground if you want but it's only the case when you hold such an immoral view. 

[Sue Denim]

Updated 17th July on a government website about working safely 

"It is important to know that the evidence of the benefit of using a face covering to protect others is weak and the effect is likely to be small"

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/offices-and-contact-centres#offices-6-1

With the evidence being weak, any benefit likely to be small (and some evidence showing that it can increase infection), with a 0.0025% prevalence rate in the community it’s useless. 

hilarious 😂 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Sue Denim

[Sue Denim]

14 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

You're right, Covid should be steered by health based decisions. But that means not by economic and not political decisions either. There is the capability for the pandemic to be tackled and to cushion the economic damage on people, politics is what stands in the way of that. 

I assure you employed, furloughed, unemployed I would not be putting personal financial gain over people's health. You can see that as moral high ground if you want but it's only the case when you hold such an immoral view. 

The policies you are supporting are killing people, destroying livelihoods and detrimental to everyone’s health.

There isn’t a single plus point to the policies you support. Those policies have achieved the complete opposite of what you hoped. They are responsible for death and destruction. 

This crisis has allowed you and your ilk the opportunity to virtue signal on full pay at the expense of others. 

You don’t have a moral high ground to stand on. Quite the opposite. 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Sue Denim

[Sue Denim]

Here’s the government’s own report that estimates that lockdown will kill 200,000 people in the U.K. @bazil85

And you think you’ve got the moral high ground? 

 

 

[insaintee]

5 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Here’s the government’s own report that estimates that lockdown will kill 200,000 people in the U.K. @bazil85

And you think you’ve got the moral high ground? 

 

 

Here is the National Registars of Scotland report that shows that is unlikely to be the case, and that most of the "Non-Covid Excess deaths" are likely to due to misdiagnosis.

 

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/vital-events/general-publications/weekly-and-monthly-data-on-births-and-deaths/deaths-involving-coronavirus-covid-19-in-scotland

Edited July 23, 2020 by insaintee

[bazil85]

47 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

The policies you are supporting are killing people, destroying livelihoods and detrimental to everyone’s health.

There isn’t a single plus point to the policies you support. Those policies have achieved the complete opposite of what you hoped. They are responsible for death and destruction. 

This crisis has allowed you and your ilk the opportunity to virtue signal on full pay at the expense of others. 

You don’t have a moral high ground to stand on. Quite the opposite. 

Not according to graphs and stats you have shared multiple times. Your very approach has shown you as completely wrong (to date) regarding lock-down killing more people. It also isn't detrimental to everyone's health, you know what is detrimental to a lot of life? A global pandemic that has observably put many excess death stats through the roof. 

You mean apart from less people dying? Again that contradicts many of your own statistics. 

My employment status would NOT have changed my view one bit. I know you often lie on here but I assure you I am being completely honest. 

I consider valuing human life over economy as more of a moral high ground, you viewing the opposite will be why you don't see that. Your view seems to be that other Scandinavian countries should have followed Sweden approach and allowed for many thousands more to die (that's what would have happened according to the evidence, see death rates) to try and protect the economy, that's pathetic IMO. 

Edited July 23, 2020 by bazil85

[bazil85]

42 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Here’s the government’s own report that estimates that lockdown will kill 200,000 people in the U.K. @bazil85

And you think you’ve got the moral high ground? 

 

 

All very sad, this really is a terrible situation to be in and knowing that many people will die is a horrible thought. Let's hope worst case scenario isn't what we see. 

Let's also just be thankful that the decision makers weren't as ignorant as you in wanting not to lock-down. How much worse would Covid19 deaths have been without a lock-down than the "worst case" lockdown scenario? 

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

You're right, Covid should be steered by health based decisions. But that means not by economic and not political decisions either. There is the capability for the pandemic to be tackled and to cushion the economic damage on people, politics is what stands in the way of that. 

I assure you employed, furloughed, unemployed I would not be putting personal financial gain over people's health. You can see that as moral high ground if you want but it's only the case when you hold such an immoral view. 

If that bit in bold was true we wouldn't need politicians.

That second paragraph, I don't believe you. You only hold these views because you have no financial problems. It's much more difficult to have the time to worry too much about other people when you are struggling to put food on your table because you have no job and you can't get your business opened to bring in custom. It's very telling that you show no understanding or empathy for the millions of people in this situation. How do they pay their bills?

[oaksoft]

Obsessive grabbing of the moral high ground to win arguments is very much a middle class pastime.

Strangely the same people have no ideas when it comes to explaining how the millions of self employed should pay their bills with no income.

[Sue Denim]

Good articles on the Russian Flu pandemic of 1889 and why it may well have actually been a coronavirus 

I’ve no doubt that Covid will be back in the winter, despite all the ludicrous restrictions. And panic will set in as cases rise. I can see another lockdown.

And the likes of @bazil85 and @TPAFKATS will get another chance to virtue signal on full pay at the expense of others.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/31/did-a-coronavirus-cause-the-pandemic-that-killed-queen-victorias-heir
 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/could-the-key-to-covid-be-found-in-the-russian-pandemic/amp

[bazil85]

15 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Good articles on the Russian Flu pandemic of 1889 and why it may well have actually been a coronavirus 

I’ve no doubt that Covid will be back in the winter, despite all the ludicrous restrictions. And panic will set in as cases rise. I can see another lockdown.

And the likes of @bazil85 and @TPAFKATS will get another chance to virtue signal on full pay at the expense of others.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/31/did-a-coronavirus-cause-the-pandemic-that-killed-queen-victorias-heir
 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/could-the-key-to-covid-be-found-in-the-russian-pandemic/amp

It doesn't steer my view, as I have told you my working life has had very little impact from this pandemic. As such it doesn't make sense for me to want a lockdown for some sort of personal benefit. 

If it does bounce back another lockdown will be the right call. Economy over human life is a pathetic world view IMO. 

[bazil85]

19 hours ago, oaksoft said:

If that bit in bold was true we wouldn't need politicians.

That second paragraph, I don't believe you. You only hold these views because you have no financial problems. It's much more difficult to have the time to worry too much about other people when you are struggling to put food on your table because you have no job and you can't get your business opened to bring in custom. It's very telling that you show no understanding or empathy for the millions of people in this situation. How do they pay their bills?

That doesn't make any sense.

You don't need to, if I was in a different financial situation it wouldn't change my world view that people shouldn't be allowed to die for a stronger economy. Part of that would be my fear that removing restrictions too fast could contribute to a faster and more damaging second wave. I have massive empathy for these people and I place the blame squarely on failings at varying governing levels. The UK (and globally) has more than the capability to feed and care for the worlds population during this pandemic. 

[oaksoft]

6 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

That doesn't make any sense.

You don't need to, if I was in a different financial situation it wouldn't change my world view that people shouldn't be allowed to die for a stronger economy. Part of that would be my fear that removing restrictions too fast could contribute to a faster and more damaging second wave. I have massive empathy for these people and I place the blame squarely on failings at varying governing levels. The UK (and globally) has more than the capability to feed and care for the worlds population during this pandemic. 

These people are in financial trouble solely because of the lockdown.

You are blaming the government for their situation.

Therefore you are blaming lockdown.

Make your mind up.

[bazil85]

23 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

These people are in financial trouble solely because of the lockdown.

You are blaming the government for their situation.

Therefore you are blaming lockdown.

Make your mind up.

Word spinning will not change my very consistent and clear stance, sorry Oak. 

[antrin]

13 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Word spinning will not change my very consistent and clear stance, sorry Oak. 

Let me translate...

”I am not the sort of person who goes on forums in order to debate and exchange ideas.”

[bazil85]

2 minutes ago, antrin said:

Let me translate...

”I am not the sort of person who goes on forums in order to debate and exchange ideas.”

Are you talking about me, you or Oaky? 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

It doesn't steer my view, as I have told you my working life has had very little impact from this pandemic. As such it doesn't make sense for me to want a lockdown for some sort of personal benefit. 
If it does bounce back another lockdown will be the right call. Economy over human life is a pathetic world view IMO. 

You are trying to reason and debate with an attention seeking troll who just wants replies to his flat earth nonsense.
The ignore function works wonders for all of Andy's many aliases.