Coronavirus

[Sue Denim]

1 minute ago, bazil85 said:

More you have no credibility on this page. You very often change words like "could" and "may" for "will" No confidence you wouldn't do similar just because it's in Spanish. 

I can easily say that you have no credibility either.

You are confusing me with yourself in the second sentence.

And you provide zero facts or evidence in any post you ever make. 

[antrin]

Here's another Spanish serological survey.

Few in Spanish, US studies had detectable COVID antibodies | CIDRAP (umn.edu)

It's as relevant to forum members  as the one posted above = even though this is in English translation. 

It was published in July.

[bazil85]

Just now, Sue Denim said:

No idea what you are on about in your first paragraph.

Second paragraph, my point is solely about the pseudo second wave. Indeed, the large number of excess deaths in the Spring and it’s correlation with covid deaths a d the lack of either in the pseudo second wave is my very point.

And as usual, you provide not a single bit of evidence whatsoever in your post.

Provide evidence and I will respond. Your opinion - which I disagree with - isn’t evidence. 

You shared statistics to back-up your claim that hospital admissions aren't a concern. If you are going to use that as credible statistics then you must accept the points that contradict your earlier posts. Namely a claim the pandemic is "over" when your own shared statistics say otherwise. 

It isn't a pseudo second wave, week on week excessive deaths prove people are still dying from covid & that correlates to an extent to the reporting. The reporting is very likely an underestimate as it is ONLY people within 28 days of a diagnoses. There is likely a significant portion of people that have succumbed to the virus after 28 days, that's why caveats exist on the data. 

My point is backed by overwhelming scientific consensus now in practically every country in the world, you denying it won' change that. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55057380

Evidence - this is linked ONS who you like to quote yourself. What is the cause for the 1/5 increase during this period? You'll have to address this giving a good reason why they would lie and what proof do you have that it's a lie?

"Some 2,838 of the deaths involved Covid - 600 more than the preceding week, according to the analysis of death certificates."

[bazil85]

5 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

I can easily say that you have no credibility either.

You are confusing me with yourself in the second sentence.

And you provide zero facts or evidence in any post you ever make. 

You don't need to see me as credible, you can investigate the scientific claims behind my view. Can you show a single scientific paper that shows evidence excessive deaths in the UK this winter are other causes outside of Covid? Such a coincidence don't you think... In the time of a pandemic? 

Incorrect, where have I said something will happen when it's a could? You regular do it with child poverty points. 

Incorrect

Edited December 21, 2020 by bazil85

[Sue Denim]

When the Scottish government audited covid patients in hospital in September, they found that 87% were actually in for a reason unrelated to covid.

They have since changed the definition but admit that it’s still all based on testing:

 “this is essentially a statistical rather than clinical definition”

Note: people in hospital with covid is NOT a clinical definition. It’s an artefact of testing. 

https://blogs.gov.scot/statistics/2020/09/15/counting-people-in-hospital-with-covid-19/

[oaksoft]

11 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

You thinking they aren’t, yet again highlights your cluelessness, hypocrisy and your volatile changing of opinion from day to day 😃

Then allow me to explain the difference mon cheri.

When I walk to Asda without a mask on, my football club does not risk getting penalised with 3-0 defeats if I bring covid home to those I spend time around.

Comprendez vous la difference?

[bazil85]

Just now, Sue Denim said:

When the Scottish government audited covid patients in hospital in September, they found that 87% were actually in for a reason unrelated to covid.

They have since changed the definition but admit that it’s still all based on testing:

 “this is essentially a statistical rather than clinical definition”

Note: people in hospital with covid is NOT a clinical definition. It’s an artefact of testing. 

https://blogs.gov.scot/statistics/2020/09/15/counting-people-in-hospital-with-covid-19/

No one is denying that often Covid is a contributing factor not the only factor. It is absolutely beyond reasonable doubt though that Covid has and continues to hasten people to their death. 

If you disagree, please give an evidence based alternative to the spike in excessive deaths we have seen this winter?

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Answer......?

I draw the line at lettuce. 🤣

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, lenziebud said:

I usually do feel happy for people in these circumstances but you are a huge exception to that rule. 

You really don't come across as likeable in any way

Oh dear. I won't lie. This news is a kick in the stomach and no mistake.

[Sue Denim]

29 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

You don't need to see me as credible, you can investigate the scientific claims behind my view. Can you show a single scientific paper that shows evidence excessive deaths in the UK this winter are other causes outside of Covid? Such a coincidence don't you think... In the time of a pandemic? 

Incorrect, where have I said something will happen when it's a could? You regular do it with child poverty points. 

Incorrect

If you provide some evidence of these scientific claims then I’ll investigate them. 
 

The rest of your post makes no sense.

Covid deaths are currently exceeding excess deaths. That is a fact, it doesn’t require a scientific paper!

If you want some reading then just type in “collateral deaths” into google and you will find plenty of articles.

Like this, government report reckons that lockdown will cause 200,000 collateral deaths

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/impact-uk-coronavirus-lockdown-cause-22382184

I’ll leave you with the latest data from the ONS. Graph below shows excess deaths in private homes since the start of the crisis.

Those excess deaths total 32,682. Of those, only 2,759 were covid related.

That’s 29,922 non covid excess deaths.

The fact that you don’t want to believe it because you know those deaths are the result of the policies you supported won’t make it go away baz.

Your virtue, their death. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Sue Denim

[Sue Denim]

From the BMJ @bazil85

Collateral deaths caused by the policies you supported

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4733

your virtue, their death

[Sue Denim]

UNICEF reckons that lockdown will kill 1.2 million children @bazil85

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/unicef-warns-lockdown-could-kill-covid-19-model-predicts-12/

your virtue, their death

[Sue Denim]

Cost of lockdown so great that restrictions should be stopped

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/ijcp.13674

Lockdown killed 2 people for every 3 that died of the virus 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8605885/Lockdown-killed-two-people-three-died-coronavirus.html

Lockdown deaths, not covid deaths

https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/lockdown-deaths-not-covid-deaths

counting the dead

https://thecritic.co.uk/counting-the-dead/

@bazil85

and here are 22 papers showing that the effect of lockdowns are weak or non existent 

https://thefatemperor.com/published-papers-and-data-on-lockdown-weak-efficacy-and-lockdown-huge-harms/

your virtue baz, their death 

[bazil85]

34 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

UNICEF reckons that lockdown will kill 1.2 million children @bazil85

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/unicef-warns-lockdown-could-kill-covid-19-model-predicts-12/

your virtue, their death

It’s clear to pretty much everyone that engages you that your key aim is to troll. It’s the only explanation for you immediately jumping to ‘will’ instead of ‘could’ a short time after I called you out on it. 

As for the rest of your posts, normal nonsense that can be explained by a want to troll on BAWA. 

The evidence remains the same as my previous post, overwhelming scientific evidence that Covid19 is killing people. Again I can only assume you ignore this to continue your trolling. 

I would say, using this pandemic as an excuse to go on the windup is in really poor taste. People are dying daily, it’s a football forum, why don’t   You pick a little less morbid topic to share lies & points you can’t possibly believe to get a reaction? 

[faraway saint]

The media are back to major scaremongering, mirroring the early days, with headlines that are frankly criminal. 

The Times has a headline...............................Mutant Virus is Everywhere.............................aye, everywhere....................I've had a quick look, feck all here.

The Guardian, even more scary, with........................."Impose National Lockdown or risk Human Disaster" scientists tell PM........................aye, these scientists love a good scaremongering view on things. 

I despair, I really do.

Many people will take every headline to heart, after months of only hearing the headline numbers, who can blame them.

 

 

[oaksoft]

I did like reports that panic buying of lettuce was just the "tip of the iceberg".

That made me laugh. Anyone remember laughter?

[Hendo]

10 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I did like reports that panic buying of lettuce was just the "tip of the iceberg".

That made me laugh. Anyone remember laughter?

This is terrible news. Lettuce pray.

[Ayrshire Saints]

The media are back to major scaremongering, mirroring the early days, with headlines that are frankly criminal. 
The Times has a headline...............................Mutant Virus is Everywhere.............................aye, everywhere....................I've had a quick look, feck all here.
The Guardian, even more scary, with........................."Impose National Lockdown or risk Human Disaster" scientists tell PM........................aye, these scientists love a good scaremongering view on things. 
I despair, I really do.
Many people will take every headline to heart, after months of only hearing the headline numbers, who can blame them.
 
 

I saw 30k dead a month for Q1 of 2021 on a govt briefing yesterday if we dont act swiftly. Even at 30k plus infections a day we are at about half their estimate so presumably they think that even with just shy of the spring lockdown we are heading for 60k new infections daily. Either that is total bullsh1t or we are being lied to about the new "mutant strain" as so far all we have heard is that it's no more deadly !

[ALBIONSAINT]

24 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I did like reports that panic buying of lettuce was just the "tip of the iceberg".

That made me laugh. Anyone remember laughter?

Lettuce! I don’t imagine that is very absorbent 😂 

[ALBIONSAINT]

15 minutes ago, Hendo said:

This is terrible news. Lettuce pray.

Lettuce not get carried away 

[Ayrshire Saints]

I saw 30k dead a month for Q1 of 2021 on a govt briefing yesterday if we dont act swiftly. Even at 30k plus infections a day we are at about half their estimate so presumably they think that even with just shy of the spring lockdown we are heading for 60k new infections daily. Either that is total bullsh1t or we are being lied to about the new "mutant strain" as so far all we have heard is that it's no more deadly !

And literally 10m later I see a newspaper headline now claiming govt are preparing for 70k new cases daily even in their new T4 areas.

This is lube for a March style lockdown very shortly, nothing surer.

[antrin]

35 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Lettuce not get carried away 

Leaf it out, mate!

[antrin]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

I did like reports that panic buying of lettuce was just the "tip of the iceberg".

That made me laugh. Anyone remember laughter?

Panic buying?  Huh!

I am a Normal Shopper.

Yesterday afternoon, thinking that the heavy falling rain would mean that only dour, inured, Scottish mountaineers would thole the hardship of such persistent downfalls, I was gobsmacked to see the queue wound round the car park, back up to the High Road, along it 80 metres or so, then down into the main shopping street.  Must have been 150-200 panic buying freaks!  The store would be thronged with super-spreaders!

 I turned the car round and headed back home from Waitrose.

Using unassailable logic, I rose just after 6.00 this morning and went back into the fray and into the gloomy dawn.  Waitrose was due to open at 7.00.  I was sure I'd get a free run, like on my normal visits.  As I approached, I imagined seeing figures in the murk. Hmmm.   It wasn't raining.

The queue was longer than yesterday's! 

I just wanted my "normal" shopping - I'm NOT the panic buyer, of course.

I drove down the High Street, taking an 'easy' way home.  There was no queue outside M&S, which I knew had opened insanely at 6.00am!  There was a parking spot on the street.  Don't panic, don't panic!  I squeezed intae the parking spot.   Wardens don't start operating till 8.30.  I strolled coolly intae M&S.

It was bedlam inside.

I got a few ordinary items like bread and milk, some sausages,  bacon, sprouts. Not that ordinary, of course.  After all, these were M&S bread and milk, some sausages and bacon, sprouts etc.  I didn't buy an iceberg lettuce: I eschewed all salads.(Still have a few leaves protected on my allotments and some more mouldering in the foot of my fridge.)  I was soon finished and outa there!

"Emergency panic buying is for other people  - suckers... mugs who've bought into all that Xmas shite!", I thought as I strolled back to the car, gently cradling my M&S Stollen Log.

[Scott-Leeds]

We’ll never know the full truth of what we are being led to believe and the media has long since stopped impartial honest reporting sadly.

The bias on almost all news outlets has ruined the news.

This ‘mutant strain’ seems to be a red herring to try re-engage people with the restrictions/rules as people in many areas have long since stopped adhering to the rules.

Certainly sounds like full lockdown may be on the cards.

My view is we can keep things open in a limited fashion with sensible precautions

We are in Tier 3 , all shops open down here. Cafes etc doing takeaway.

Schools all open ( except holiday obviously ) staggered start for high school in new year but only for first week back - Pubs/Cinemas closed but society in the main open,

[antrin]

1 hour ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

The media are back to major scaremongering, mirroring the early days, with headlines that are frankly criminal. 
The Times has a headline...............................Mutant Virus is Everywhere.............................aye, everywhere....................I've had a quick look, feck all here.
The Guardian, even more scary, with........................."Impose National Lockdown or risk Human Disaster" scientists tell PM........................aye, these scientists love a good scaremongering view on things. 
I despair, I really do.
Many people will take every headline to heart, after months of only hearing the headline numbers, who can blame them.
 
 

I saw 30k dead a month for Q1 of 2021 on a govt briefing yesterday if we dont act swiftly. Even at 30k plus infections a day we are at about half their estimate so presumably they think that even with just shy of the spring lockdown we are heading for 60k new infections daily. Either that is total bullsh1t or we are being lied to about the new "mutant strain" as so far all we have heard is that it's no more deadly !

With the ramping up of testing, there must also be a collateral identification  and rise in people who test positive.  And as this appears to be a virus that adversely hits the elderly, then the majority of people who contract the virus will have little or no symptoms. and the majority of any fatalities will be of the 'elderly' - a dwindling number...   

 

Yesterday, The Buffoon said it would all be better by Easter.  I believe Our Leader.

 

I also believed him when he said it would all be over by Easter this year... and the end of summer and by Xmas. 

That's what I call leadership, Titanic leadership.

Edited December 22, 2020 by antrin