In Dublin's Fair City

[shull]

Where now,

It's not very pretty.

 

[StanleySaint]

Aye right enough

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-67512628

[portmahomack saint]

In my experience,

Not many people if any,  with the exception of my two sons I must add would i class as being Xenophilia 

Most people i come across and that is a lot in my line of work are definitely more of a Xenophobe, And a lot come across as extremely racist,  Others which I find laughable/stupid they usually start a conversation with the line.... I'm not racist BUT...  

I also find it laughable when i get a chance to ask them if you have ever thought of living abroad yourself the answer quite often is Yes   

[W6er]

8 minutes ago, portmahomack saint said:

In my experience,

Not many people if any,  with the exception of my two sons I must add would i class as being Xenophilia 

Most people i come across and that is a lot in my line of work are definitely more of a Xenophobe, And a lot come across as extremely racist,  Others which I find laughable/stupid they usually start a conversation with the line.... I'm not racist BUT...  

I also find it laughable when i get a chance to ask them if you have ever thought of living abroad yourself the answer quite often is Yes   

I think the upsetting thing about Ireland is that a lot of these people labelled 'far-right' are simply working class people who're concerned about the lack of affordable housing in their area, let alone their fear of lots of unvetted single men living in close proximity to them and their families. Can you blame them after the incidents in places like Rochdale and Rotherham? So they have demonstrated, as is their right, and been ignored and looked upon with disdain by those supposedly elected to represent them. Then yesterday a tragedy did happen and young children were stabbed. This comes not long after an attack in Dublin Airport, too.

Added to that is the hypocrisy of the media and politicians, many of whom seemed to welcome the protests and riots in the wake of the death of George Flloyd, a convicted criminal, who died in a country 3,000 miles away. 

If politicians are willing to simply dismiss the concerns of the people - and worse sneer at them - then this is the result. Seemingly, they have far more to say about the rioting than the fact that Irish children were stabbed on the streets of their capital city. 

Now they apparently want to clamp down on the protests.

As JFK said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

[portmahomack saint]

Irish people had to leave their country in droves in the past fleeing poverty and even discrimination in their own country seeking a better life and were met with the same discrimination in other countries this one included, is this really any different I'm not sure it is, 

This has been brewing for some time as many Immigrants are being attracted to Ireland due to it's financial success recently and I'm guessing access to the UK too eventually, not sure the Irish public were expecting this to come to their shores something they weren't used to for sure. 

48 minutes ago, W6er said:

I think the upsetting thing about Ireland is that a lot of these people labelled 'far-right' are simply working class people who're concerned about the lack of affordable housing in their area, let alone their fear of lots of unvetted single men living in close proximity to them and their families. Can you blame them after the incidents in places like Rochdale and Rotherham? So they have demonstrated, as is their right, and been ignored and looked upon with disdain by those supposedly elected to represent them. Then yesterday a tragedy did happen and young children were stabbed. This comes not long after an attack in Dublin Airport, too.

Added to that is the hypocrisy of the media and politicians, many of whom seemed to welcome the protests and riots in the wake of the death of George Flloyd, a convicted criminal, who died in a country 3,000 miles away. 

If politicians are willing to simply dismiss the concerns of the people - and worse sneer at them - then this is the result. Seemingly, they have far more to say about the rioting than the fact that Irish children were stabbed on the streets of their capital city. 

Now they apparently want to clamp down on the protests.

As JFK said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

 

[antrin]

No need to talk of xenophilia and far-right motivation.  
 

They just wanted to shop in Footlocker for free. (Other stores were available).

[faraway saint]

3 hours ago, W6er said:

I think the upsetting thing about Ireland is that a lot of these people labelled 'far-right' are simply working class people who're concerned about the lack of affordable housing in their area, let alone their fear of lots of unvetted single men living in close proximity to them and their families. Can you blame them after the incidents in places like Rochdale and Rotherham? So they have demonstrated, as is their right, and been ignored and looked upon with disdain by those supposedly elected to represent them. Then yesterday a tragedy did happen and young children were stabbed. This comes not long after an attack in Dublin Airport, too.

 

I worry about you.

You dance around "riots", not DEMONSTRATIONS, with airy fairy unsubstantiated statements, completely ignoring the fear and damage to property of working class people.

Make no mistake, yesterday's actions were not that of worried/concerned people, this was unadulterated and out of control fueled by racism, not the social issues you keep on putting up as an excuse.

Unnecessary damage to property and out and out thieving.

This was from the Irish prime minister..................

 DUBLIN — Prime Minister Leo Varadkar vowed Friday to crack down on racist extremists who fought street battles with riot police — a “Rubicon moment” for a state ill-equipped to combat rising working-class animosity to immigrants.

https://www.politico.eu/article/pm-leo-varadkar-ireland-will-punish-racists-responsible-dublin-riot/#:~:text=Irish prime minister says new,torch vehicles and ransack shops.

[W6er]

 

Compare and contrast the narrative pushed...

[Scott-Leeds]

In my experience,
Not many people if any,  with the exception of my two sons I must add would i class as being Xenophilia 
Most people i come across and that is a lot in my line of work are definitely more of a Xenophobe, And a lot come across as extremely racist,  Others which I find laughable/stupid they usually start a conversation with the line.... I'm not racist BUT...  
I also find it laughable when i get a chance to ask them if you have ever thought of living abroad yourself the answer quite often is Yes   

That’s not to say there isn’t a huge issue

The tens of thousands who arrive on these boats do not arrive with money on them to pay for Rent/Gas/Elec/Food etc - They are here to be funded by us completely free

I’ve inspected multiple hotels which house the immigrants ( These are not economic migrants ) Single men , generally 18-40 years old, fit and well

When people flee war they take their women and children with them. When they go to war they leave their families behind.

The resources they have far outstrip anything given to British people.

The council are buying new build houses throughout Yorkshire to house them.

The David Wilson / Barratt homes my son is helping build as a bricklayer have had 12 purchased by Leeds City Council this year alone

When Ukraine was invaded, the Ukrainian men went back to defend their country

Everything above is what I have witnessed or heard about

Just a few reasons why people are fed up with immigration

It is an absolute free for all and needs addressing

[ALBIONSAINT]

4 hours ago, Scott-Leeds said:

That’s not to say there isn’t a huge issue

The tens of thousands who arrive on these boats do not arrive with money on them to pay for Rent/Gas/Elec/Food etc - They are here to be funded by us completely free

I’ve inspected multiple hotels which house the immigrants ( These are not economic migrants ) Single men , generally 18-40 years old, fit and well

When people flee war they take their women and children with them. When they go to war they leave their families behind.

The resources they have far outstrip anything given to British people.

The council are buying new build houses throughout Yorkshire to house them.

The David Wilson / Barratt homes my son is helping build as a bricklayer have had 12 purchased by Leeds City Council this year alone

When Ukraine was invaded, the Ukrainian men went back to defend their country

Everything above is what I have witnessed or heard about

Just a few reasons why people are fed up with immigration

It is an absolute free for all and needs addressing

Unfortunately if you dare point out the unbiased facts of the matter you are labelled a racist or bigot. There is a severe lack of tolerance in society now, the points you make are valid but because politics is so polarised now you have to fall into either right or left wing. Most people I have lived and worked with all my life are somewhere in the middle and can see that the current asylum system is very unfair to the tax payer and to those immigrants who go through official channels to work and study in the country. 

[ALBIONSAINT]

8 hours ago, portmahomack saint said:

Irish people had to leave their country in droves in the past fleeing poverty and even discrimination in their own country seeking a better life and were met with the same discrimination in other countries this one included, is this really any different I'm not sure it is, 

This has been brewing for some time as many Immigrants are being attracted to Ireland due to it's financial success recently and I'm guessing access to the UK too eventually, not sure the Irish public were expecting this to come to their shores something they weren't used to for sure. 

 

Your correct that it’s been brewing for some time, however recent weeks have seen two big cases come to court which has had a big impact on the psyche of Irish people ( see below) both cases have involved young males from abroad who are new to the country. Both cases involve the use of knives with the case involving the LGBT community involving a beheading. Needless to say you won’t find much content on the British MSM about the cases which is a puzzle in its self. 

 

 

[portmahomack saint]

58 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Your correct that it’s been brewing for some time, however recent weeks have seen two big cases come to court which has had a big impact on the psyche of Irish people ( see below) both cases have involved young males from abroad who are new to the country. Both cases involve the use of knives with the case involving the LGBT community involving a beheading. Needless to say you won’t find much content on the British MSM about the cases which is a puzzle in its self. 

 

 

One of those evil sick in the head bastards came to Ireland when he was 6 yrs old 

[ALBIONSAINT]

9 hours ago, portmahomack saint said:

One of those evil sick in the head bastards came to Ireland when he was 6 yrs old 

Sorry Portmahomack you’ve lost me? The articles say one was 33 years old and on the other 23 year old . I didn’t see any comment on when they arrived in Ireland. It was a 2am post so if it’s inaccurate I will retract it. 

[faraway saint]

There seems to be no records of crimes committed by immigrants/refugees in Ireland which is strange as there seems to be a belief immigrants are the key culprits in any crimes that are committed.

However, there is evidence from the USA that this belief is contrary to the facts. 

It should be pointed out these stats are for immigrants, not refugees. 

Refugees are less likely to commit crimes, more likely to be employed, and more likely to start a small business. At least in the US where most of the research is done, although I don't see why it wouldn't be applicable here

https://news.mit.edu/2022/study-immigrants-more-likely-start-firms-create-jobs-0509#:~:text=Co%2Dauthored%20by%20an%20MIT,by%20U.S.%20natives%2C%20on%20average.

https://ncpolicywatch.com/2021/08/03/no-undocumented-immigrants-dont-commit-more-crime-research-shows-they-commit-a-lot-less/

There are figures for male prisoners NOT born in Ireland, which show about 20% are non-Irish.

I'll assume that means 80% are Irish nationals.......................maybe they should be looking to boot the Irish out of Ireland. 

For some balance, there is estimated to be about 12% of the population are non Irish. 

[faraway saint]

Interesting view in the Irish Times.

Headline and link below...................

No link between asylum seekers and increased crime, authorities state

TG4 documentary charts the rise of the anti-immigration movement and the damaging impact of false information

 

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/03/15/no-link-between-asylum-seekers-and-increased-crime-authorities-state/

Edited November 25, 2023 by faraway saint

[ALBIONSAINT]

1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

Interesting view in the Irish Times.

Headline and link below...................

No link between asylum seekers and increased crime, authorities state

TG4 documentary charts the rise of the anti-immigration movement and the damaging impact of false information

No link between asylum seekers and increased crime, authorities state

TG4 documentary charts the rise of the anti-immigration movement and the damaging impact of false information

No link between asylum seekers and increased crime, authorities state

TG4 documentary charts the rise of the anti-immigration movement and the damaging impact of false information

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/03/15/no-link-between-asylum-seekers-and-increased-crime-authorities-state/

They have chosen there words well, “no link between crime “ I don’t think anyone is saying there is? What is being said by many Irish residents is there is a housing crisis and yet the country continues to receive lots of immigrants (mostly single men) single men are not family units so require individual homes. 
Although I don’t have the stats to back it up, there does appear to be a link between mass stabbings and immigrants. This is not just a Irish phenomena it’s happening right across Europe, alas it is very rarely reported by the MSM in the U.K. 

[faraway saint]

4 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

They have chosen there words well, “no link between crime “ I don’t think anyone is saying there is? What is being said by many Irish residents is there is a housing crisis and yet the country continues to receive lots of immigrants (mostly single men) single men are not family units so require individual homes. 
Although I don’t have the stats to back it up, there does appear to be a link between mass stabbings and immigrants. This is not just a Irish phenomena it’s happening right across Europe, alas it is very rarely reported by the MSM in the U.K. 

Plenty of Irish people were saying exactly that after the stabbing and this was used as a "justification" behind the riots the other night. 

Are you saying that the lack of housing, which is always rolled out when required, is justification for the level of riots a few nights ago?

Also this MSM pish, maybe I should look for all my information on YouTube? 

[faraway saint]

My view, FWIW, is that there is an element of "cnuts" in the immigrants but I doubt much more than the local "cnuts".

I also believe that racism is a growing issue across Europe and mainly the extreme cases are reported across social media and used by extremists to fuel the immigration issue. 

We have a considerable influx of immigrants here in Arbroath and any time, and they are not angels, anything related to "them" is reported, social media explodes meanwhile the local lunatics strut along almost unnoticed, probably the offspring of the people who shout the loudest about immigrants. 

[W6er]

I find @faraway saint's claims to be quite interesting. I would suggest that, given the EU dispersal programme, the refugees they accept would have a similar profile to those received by other EU countries. I'm sure I have read that crime stats in those countries indicates a disproportionate number of foreign offenders, so it would be curious why Ireland bucks the trend. I can think of one reason, but it's a wee bit controversial...so I will not mention it.

Totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but has anybody seen the film Snatch? The riots made me think of it. Vinnie Jones basically plays himself, but Brad Pitt is magnificent:

 

As for @faraway saint's stats - if non-native Irish constitute 15.9% of the prison population, but only 12% of the population, then that would imply they're committing an inordinate number of crimes.

What the 'authorities' and mainstream media state at the moment should be considered with caution. They're probably trying not 'inflame' the situation. The government are also trying to pass 'hate speech' laws which, according to what I've read on Twitter (sorry, do not have time for sources), will criminalise criticism of people based on 'migrant status'. So, they will be desperate to portray the rioters as thugs who have absolutely no legitimate grievances at all. 

Not sure about anybody else, but I'm curious as to the impact of the attacks on the victims, but there doesn't seem to have been much about them in the media. 

Apparently, and I have not the time to substantiate this, but the media have hailed a Brazilian man as the exclusive hero, but it was a native Dubliner who actually tackled the man when he was wielding a knife:

 

[beyond our ken]

21 hours ago, W6er said:

I think the upsetting thing about Ireland is that a lot of these people labelled 'far-right' are simply working class people who're concerned about the lack of affordable housing in their area, let alone their fear of lots of unvetted single men living in close proximity to them and their families. Can you blame them after the incidents in places like Rochdale and Rotherham? So they have demonstrated, as is their right, and been ignored and looked upon with disdain by those supposedly elected to represent them. Then yesterday a tragedy did happen and young children were stabbed. This comes not long after an attack in Dublin Airport, too.

Added to that is the hypocrisy of the media and politicians, many of whom seemed to welcome the protests and riots in the wake of the death of George Flloyd, a convicted criminal, who died in a country 3,000 miles away. 

If politicians are willing to simply dismiss the concerns of the people - and worse sneer at them - then this is the result. Seemingly, they have far more to say about the rioting than the fact that Irish children were stabbed on the streets of their capital city. 

Now they apparently want to clamp down on the protests.

As JFK said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

From the IT article you appeared to have gotten your  information from

"Palani, who is originally from Iraq and came to Ireland with his family when he was six years old, repeatedly insisted he was not gay despite forensic evidence showing he engaged in sexual activity with at least one victim."

Hardly a failure of multiculturism or uncontrolled migration, is it?  and it took me seconds to find that piece.  So please, retract away to your heart's content.

[Slarti]

As for [mention=2846]faraway saint[/mention]'s stats - if non-native Irish constitute 15.9% of the prison population, but only 12% of the population, then that would imply they're committing an inordinate number of crimes.

Or maybe, because they stand out more due to skin colour/accent/etc, they are easier to apprehend. Or maybe locals are more willing to grass up foreigners than they are other locals. Just a thought. I don't think a 4% difference really signifies much, in any case.

[faraway saint]

4 minutes ago, Slarti said:

 

 

Or maybe, because they stand out more due to skin colour/accent/etc, they are easier to apprehend. Or maybe locals are more willing to grass up foreigners than they are other locals. Just a thought. I don't think a 4% difference really signifies much, in any case.

 

Hardly "inordinate". 

[beyond our ken]

1 hour ago, W6er said:

I find @faraway saint's claims to be quite interesting. I would suggest that, given the EU dispersal programme, the refugees they accept would have a similar profile to those received by other EU countries. I'm sure I have read that crime stats in those countries indicates a disproportionate number of foreign offenders, so it would be curious why Ireland bucks the trend. I can think of one reason, but it's a wee bit controversial...so I will not mention it.

Totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but has anybody seen the film Snatch? The riots made me think of it. Vinnie Jones basically plays himself, but Brad Pitt is magnificent:

 

As for @faraway saint's stats - if non-native Irish constitute 15.9% of the prison population, but only 12% of the population, then that would imply they're committing an inordinate number of crimes.

What the 'authorities' and mainstream media state at the moment should be considered with caution. They're probably trying not 'inflame' the situation. The government are also trying to pass 'hate speech' laws which, according to what I've read on Twitter (sorry, do not have time for sources), will criminalise criticism of people based on 'migrant status'. So, they will be desperate to portray the rioters as thugs who have absolutely no legitimate grievances at all. 

Not sure about anybody else, but I'm curious as to the impact of the attacks on the victims, but there doesn't seem to have been much about them in the media. 

Apparently, and I have not the time to substantiate this, but the media have hailed a Brazilian man as the exclusive hero, but it was a native Dubliner who actually tackled the man when he was wielding a knife:

 

You seem to be making the massive assumption that the "non-Irish" are refugees, you can't know that.  Ireland has a lot of immigation and repatriation from the so-called English-speaking world. 

You talk about mass stabbings in Europe, fair enough.  There are few mass stabbings in the US where mass-murder is almost a pastime and that is because access to guns is so easy and many mass-murderers there seem to be targetting ethnic minorities.  So maybe criminals in the refugee communities cant get access to guns so easily in Europe and maybe they'd do less stabbing  if the opposite was true?

And let's jut have that "controversial" point you have teased us with.  No-one is going to judge you for a view any more severely than they have already.  But if you think you can take the debate forward with this view then let's have it as you seem to be quite wedded to it.

Edited November 25, 2023 by beyond our ken

[beyond our ken]

Just a wee mention of Ms O'Hanlon.  She does her partne a hige disservice by referring to Warren as a "Dublin man" and the other guy as "the Brazillian man".  Both are Dubliners who joined forces to end a murderous attack.  Two strangers who took action for the good of others.  Maybe she thinks the ill-advised gravy train that has been set up for Caio Benicio should stop at her door too and is willing to compromise evidence and stoke further racial discord in order to get on board?  Surely though, that jumper is evidence that the police would want as it would be pertinent to further charges and show evidence of intent and malice on the part of the attacker?  Just a thought.

[ALBIONSAINT]

1 hour ago, faraway saint said:

Plenty of Irish people were saying exactly that after the stabbing and this was used as a "justification" behind the riots the other night. 

Are you saying that the lack of housing, which is always rolled out when required, is justification for the level of riots a few nights ago?

Also this MSM pish, maybe I should look for all my information on YouTube? 

Heading out to the game so don’t have much time to look at all your points, however it’s good to discuss these issues like adults. I like many others gave up on the BBC and ITV a long time ago due to their patent bias. I think if you were really honest with yourself you may well agree. With the rise of online content comes risks and opportunities, if you are a middle of the road person like myself then you can look at both sectors and come up with your own verdict. With this in mind I think the interview below sums up very accurately the causes of the riots. I very much agree with both commentators who both give differing opinions. Sorry FS it’s from YouTube…..