St. Sid Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm currently going through every post trying to find out who is paying the 2 million loan for the shares. I have picked up already that Mr Artkinson is not putting up any of his own money. So I gather the community must have to pay up the 2 million. Next logical question would be who in the community. Or does ktf think just because it's a community loan means it dose not need to be paid back if things goes tits up. What is this fresh air money. Anyway I an still shifting through the thread looking for the man with the answers according to himself ktf. £2M loan - why are you posting pish like that - are you drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Massoni expressed an interest in buying the club at one point !! I know. Scary isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) £2M loan - why are you posting pish like that - are you drunk? Ok break through from ktf Everything that can be said has been, as far as I can see, from Div and Sid. However, it is probably worth adding that any loans that are taken on (most of the money from the Scottish Investment Fund is loan money as far as I'm aware) are loans to the CiC, not loans to St Mirren and therefore the club would remain debt-free. So the loan is passed to CIC who then pass it on to us. Then if we cant pay back the 2 million CIC just right it off. Call me cynical but that sounds a wee bit good to be true, however I will keep my cynical head open and search further and just edit and add more as I find it bringing the thread up to date The SIF money is 'soft' and can't be recalled if defaulted on, that is partly why it is taking so long, the SIF people need to know that the infrastructure, facilities and plans are all in place to make the investment viable and able to return the loans. mmmm loan cant be recalled if defaulted. Then you write viable and able to return the loan. You obviously understand these things better than I do but I am a little confused with not paying through default and viable and able to pay the loan. Without your blood pressure going up - that brings back my original question who is paying the loan. You did say you gave the answer Edited February 10, 2011 by Lochwinnoch Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm currently going through every post trying to find out who is paying the 2 million loan for the shares. I have picked up already that Mr Artkinson is not putting up any of his own money. So I gather the community must have to pay up the 2 million. Next logical question would be who in the community. Or does ktf think just because it's a community loan means it dose not need to be paid back if things goes tits up. What is this fresh air money. Anyway I an still shifting through the thread looking for the man with the answers according to himself ktf. Your right as a fan to question these posts. As a fan you and myself have a vested concern on the running of our club (we may not have a right to influence or question, but we have a right to have a concern). We are being told by others that we are wrong to ask questions about the future and that its all in black in white in previous posts. Well as a fan I take all that is posted on these forums as a pinch of salt until it printed on the Official Webpage under news. I have read the many webpages on CiC the SiF, the SiS etc etc. These bring more questions than answers. The SiF has £30m to give out by March 2011 to date they have given out £25m The give loans from £100k - £1m. I have looked at the list of names who have received money. I don't see many CiC type organisations. Asking questions is healthy. Afterall I remember when the majority of fans thought Reg Brealey was the saviour of our club. How wrong were we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Your right as a fan to question these posts. As a fan you and myself have a vested concern on the running of our club (we may not have a right to influence or question, but we have a right to have a concern). We are being told by others that we are wrong to ask questions about the future and that its all in black in white in previous posts. Well as a fan I take all that is posted on these forums as a pinch of salt until it printed on the Official Webpage under news. I have read the many webpages on CiC the SiF, the SiS etc etc. These bring more questions than answers. The SiF has £30m to give out by March 2011 to date they have given out £25m The give loans from £100k - £1m. I have looked at the list of names who have received money. I don't see many CiC type organisations. Asking questions is healthy. Afterall I remember when the majority of fans thought Reg Brealey was the saviour of our club. How wrong were we. How many times can you repeat a question before it loses it's resonance, though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Your right as a fan to question these posts. As a fan you and myself have a vested concern on the running of our club (we may not have a right to influence or question, but we have a right to have a concern). We are being told by others that we are wrong to ask questions about the future and that its all in black in white in previous posts. Well as a fan I take all that is posted on these forums as a pinch of salt until it printed on the Official Webpage under news. I have read the many webpages on CiC the SiF, the SiS etc etc. These bring more questions than answers. The SiF has £30m to give out by March 2011 to date they have given out £25m The give loans from £100k - £1m. I have looked at the list of names who have received money. I don't see many CiC type organisations. Asking questions is healthy. Afterall I remember when the majority of fans thought Reg Brealey was the saviour of our club. How wrong were we. I agree, it is only natural for the fans to ask questions and indeed I am surprised it has taken this long for it to get to this level. I think everyone has valid points to make, both positive and negative about what the proposed takeover might mean. There is of course ways and means of expressing these in order to engage in a healthy discussion and some people would do well to remember that. First and foremost we are all St.Mirren fans and we all want the club to be successful. I think it's only natural that we are wary of change, and we would be even if the proposed purchase of the club was "traditional" in the sense of a private individual taking control. We've seen at Dundee, Gretna, Livingston and Motherwell how badly wrong that can go, and even at big clubs like Hearts who will have their day of reckoning at some point. This new model is difficult to understand, I don't understand it all that's for sure, and I have some reservations as well but what I do know is that the guys who are trying to pull this off are working very hard to do so, and they have been working with our current board now for 8 months. We have to trust Stewart et al to do the right thing for the club going forward. They have performed miracles at our club since taking charge and I would doubt they would want to risk the club throwing that all away by making the wrong decision regarding the sale. Finally, Richard Atkinson isn't some shady businessman hiding away in Irvine conducting this takeover. He is spending countless hours at St.Mirren Park meeting with supporters, supporters groups, local businesses, suppliers and beyond as he tried to bring this plan through to it's completion after what has been in total almost a years worth of effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Your right as a fan to question these posts. As a fan you and myself have a vested concern on the running of our club (we may not have a right to influence or question, but we have a right to have a concern). We are being told by others that we are wrong to ask questions about the future and that its all in black in white in previous posts. Well as a fan I take all that is posted on these forums as a pinch of salt until it printed on the Official Webpage under news. I have read the many webpages on CiC the SiF, the SiS etc etc. These bring more questions than answers. The SiF has £30m to give out by March 2011 to date they have given out £25m The give loans from £100k - £1m. I have looked at the list of names who have received money. I don't see many CiC type organisations. Asking questions is healthy. Afterall I remember when the majority of fans thought Reg Brealey was the saviour of our club. How wrong were we. Of course you are entitled to ask the questions and be concerned - just as I am entitled to invent fake press conferences for my own personal gratification - this an unofficial football forum. But as in all walks of life it is about how you ask the question, where, when and who to. For example, a frimpy but decent looking, sober burd is out having dinner with her old grammarian stuck up Ralston parents. You fancy said burd. You saunter up to her and ask, "Haw'll bitch, quality tattie bojangles by the way - di yi fancy taking a wee run up the braes for a shag? You're no that good looking but a've hud mair than ten pints and have had to lower my expectations. Now before you say yes are you 1. on the pill and 2. di yi swally, cos you look more like a spitter?" The chap in the scenario above is of course asking a consenting adult to divulge information relating to the chances of having rumpy pumpy. Nothing technically wrong with that, albeit arguably overly bold, although the tactic has been proven to work in the past. Is the restaurant the right environment to ask the question - again, being bold that has also worked for me in the past - but burds do love the Sidster. Is it appropriate to ask the question in front of a wider and potentially unapproving audience that might use the information against you - again a risk the bod Sid was perpared to take after ten pints, in a previous life. The content is critical here - "haw'll bitch" - sure fire attention getter, nothing wrong there...."quality tattie bojangles" - again good - always compliment someone when you want something from them....."di yi fancy taking a wee run up the braes for a shag?"....good direct question, might even go for the assumptive close - "Let's go furra shag up the braes!" (posh burds like that sort of directness).....However, here's where the drunken clumsy approach falls down - "you're no that good looking...etc" - when you are looking for something from someone you don't lead with insults such as "we don't trust you" or words to that effect.....and then you certainly shouldn't demand answers to sensitive questions "the pill" and "swally" before you have even introduced yourself to the young lady you would to get intimiate with. An unofficial football forum might be the place to ask sensitive questions in a rude and insensitive manner regarding the future plans for the club. Demanding answers to loaded questions spun in a negative way is hardly going to encourage anyone to divulge the information so dearly craved in the unofficial forum though. Love this thread - its a duck shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 In the correct thread this time. I was at a SMISA meeting a couple of months ago (before the Motherwell game IIRC).I'm sure they gave the breakdown of how the £2 million was going to be funded. However, due to years of alcohol abuse and not paying close enough attention on the day, I can't remember the majority of the details. So if you find someone else who was there, unlike Mr.Atkinson (who was supposed to be there, but didn't trap) and ask them.They'll probably remember the breakdown of the sources of money. FWIW I left the meeting pretty sceptical about the whole idea, after hearing the information supplied on the day. I'm sure that it was mentioned that Atkinson and Co. were to put in £250K.Although, not for the first time, I could be talking utter shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 The main points are that it'll be our club, the community will be involved, fans will get a chance to have their say, nobody can sell off the ground and no single individual will be able to come in and do whatever. Even now we're hearing more about Massone, such as Dundee paying a fee for Griffiths and it just disappearing. Saints have cut their cloth so money coming in can only add to the club's development on and off the park, we may even see an adopt the player scheme or something like that. To the doubters, as Div has pointed out just drop Richard a line and see if anything sparks of how you can assist. This'll sound all very idyllic, but Saints fans will genuinely have nobody to shout at if this works expect themselves. What I do know is that there's a lot of differences to the Ebbsfleet model, there's certainly more thought and expertise going in to this. We have someone in Richard who is very genuinely looking to get people involved as opposed taking the money and failing to do his part. There's also scope to do things that Ebbsfleet/MYFC just were not up for doing in any shape or form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 The main points are that it'll be our club, the community will be involved, fans will get a chance to have their say, nobody can sell off the ground and no single individual will be able to come in and do whatever. Even now we're hearing more about Massone, such as Dundee paying a fee for Griffiths and it just disappearing. Saints have cut their cloth so money coming in can only add to the club's development on and off the park, we may even see an adopt the player scheme or something like that. To the doubters, as Div has pointed out just drop Richard a line and see if anything sparks of how you can assist. This'll sound all very idyllic, but Saints fans will genuinely have nobody to shout at if this works expect themselves. What I do know is that there's a lot of differences to the Ebbsfleet model, there's certainly more thought and expertise going in to this. We have someone in Richard who is very genuinely looking to get people involved as opposed taking the money and failing to do his part. There's also scope to do things that Ebbsfleet/MYFC just were not up for doing in any shape or form. Agree completely. Like everyone else, I've got questions, but I won't be asking them on here, I'll address them to Richard Atkinson at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Agree completely. Like everyone else, I've got questions, but I won't be asking them on here, I'll address them to Richard Atkinson at the club. Aye, scepticism and questions are fine in my book. What is a bit futile, though, is banging on about things that will no doubt be answered in the fullness of time. I'd much rather Atkinson devoted his energies into getting this right as opposed to coming on here and humouring us with empty promises and sound-bites. I have no idea what motivates the guy, but it seems he is putting a lot into this - if this doesn't include his money, who could find fault in that FFS? I don't see people on here queuing up to launch their poppy at the club. I remember we met Gordon Scott at the new ground while it was still very much in development. He showed us round and was hugely enthusiastic about the project and had numerous ideas and initiatives. What impressed my was the guy's commitment and the fact that he was devoting his own time to our club. I wasn't interested in the contents of his wallet, or the marque on his key-fob. Why are people assuming that Richard Atkinson is any less committed, enthused, and excited about his plans for the club? To judge the guy on the basis that he won't come onto an internet forum to discuss his business arrangemnts is fucking laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 To judge the guy on the basis that he won't come onto an internet forum to discuss his business arrangemnts is fucking laughable. You can take it from me that he reads this forum every single day and is always interested in the topics being debated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) You can take it from me that he reads this forum every single day. So what's the good news? ETA: that did occur to me, and it's a shame that some people seem intent on questioning his integrity before he has had an adequate opportunity to demonstrate what he might be bringing to the club. Edited February 10, 2011 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Of course you are entitled to ask the questions and be concerned - just as I am entitled to invent fake press conferences for my own personal gratification - this an unofficial football forum. But as in all walks of life it is about how you ask the question, where, when and who to. For example, a frimpy but decent looking, sober burd is out having dinner with her old grammarian stuck up Ralston parents. You fancy said burd. You saunter up to her and ask, "Haw'll bitch, quality tattie bojangles by the way - di yi fancy taking a wee run up the braes for a shag? You're no that good looking but a've hud mair than ten pints and have had to lower my expectations. Now before you say yes are you 1. on the pill and 2. di yi swally, cos you look more like a spitter?" The chap in the scenario above is of course asking a consenting adult to divulge information relating to the chances of having rumpy pumpy. Nothing technically wrong with that, albeit arguably overly bold, although the tactic has been proven to work in the past. Is the restaurant the right environment to ask the question - again, being bold that has also worked for me in the past - but burds do love the Sidster. Is it appropriate to ask the question in front of a wider and potentially unapproving audience that might use the information against you - again a risk the bod Sid was perpared to take after ten pints, in a previous life. The content is critical here - "haw'll bitch" - sure fire attention getter, nothing wrong there...."quality tattie bojangles" - again good - always compliment someone when you want something from them....."di yi fancy taking a wee run up the braes for a shag?"....good direct question, might even go for the assumptive close - "Let's go furra shag up the braes!" (posh burds like that sort of directness).....However, here's where the drunken clumsy approach falls down - "you're no that good looking...etc" - when you are looking for something from someone you don't lead with insults such as "we don't trust you" or words to that effect.....and then you certainly shouldn't demand answers to sensitive questions "the pill" and "swally" before you have even introduced yourself to the young lady you would to get intimiate with. An unofficial football forum might be the place to ask sensitive questions in a rude and insensitive manner regarding the future plans for the club. Demanding answers to loaded questions spun in a negative way is hardly going to encourage anyone to divulge the information so dearly craved in the unofficial forum though. Love this thread - its a duck shoot. Can I nominate this for Post of The Year? I know it's only early Feb, but I don't see one that could be better... In the correct thread this time. I was at a SMISA meeting a couple of months ago (before the Motherwell game IIRC).I'm sure they gave the breakdown of how the £2 million was going to be funded. However, due to years of alcohol abuse and not paying close enough attention on the day, I can't remember the majority of the details. So if you find someone else who was there, unlike Mr.Atkinson (who was supposed to be there, but didn't trap) and ask them.They'll probably remember the breakdown of the sources of money. FWIW I left the meeting pretty sceptical about the whole idea, after hearing the information supplied on the day. I'm sure that it was mentioned that Atkinson and Co. were to put in £250K.Although, not for the first time, I could be talking utter shite. I was there too - as an unofficial SMiSa non-member... The one I was at Richard did turn up to and so did Chris (at the end). Richard did a brilliant job of explaining the whole thing and then fielded some really tough and probing questions very well. Don't remember the ins-and-outs of what they (the CiC organising people) are putting in but I'm sure all of this will come to be clear in due time. The main points are that it'll be our club, the community will be involved, fans will get a chance to have their say, nobody can sell off the ground and no single individual will be able to come in and do whatever. Even now we're hearing more about Massone, such as Dundee paying a fee for Griffiths and it just disappearing. Saints have cut their cloth so money coming in can only add to the club's development on and off the park, we may even see an adopt the player scheme or something like that. To the doubters, as Div has pointed out just drop Richard a line and see if anything sparks of how you can assist. This'll sound all very idyllic, but Saints fans will genuinely have nobody to shout at if this works expect themselves. What I do know is that there's a lot of differences to the Ebbsfleet model, there's certainly more thought and expertise going in to this. We have someone in Richard who is very genuinely looking to get people involved as opposed taking the money and failing to do his part. There's also scope to do things that Ebbsfleet/MYFC just were not up for doing in any shape or form. Spot on! I have had several phone calls and email conversations with Richard and I am more than confident that the deal is in good hands and that, if it goes through, it will be a really positive thing for St Mirren and will be part of insuring that the club last out for my children and theirs. Agree completely. Like everyone else, I've got questions, but I won't be asking them on here, I'll address them to Richard Atkinson at the club. Again, sensible - glad this thread is getting this way now :-) Aye, scepticism and questions are fine in my book. What is a bit futile, though, is banging on about things that will no doubt be answered in the fullness of time. I'd much rather Atkinson devoted his energies into getting this right as opposed to coming on here and humouring us with empty promises and sound-bites. I have no idea what motivates the guy, but it seems he is putting a lot into this - if this doesn't include his money, who could find fault in that FFS? I don't see people on here queuing up to launch their poppy at the club. I remember we met Gordon Scott at the new ground while it was still very much in development. He showed us round and was hugely enthusiastic about the project and had numerous ideas and initiatives. What impressed my was the guy's commitment and the fact that he was devoting his own time to our club. I wasn't interested in the contents of his wallet, or the marque on his key-fob. Why are people assuming that Richard Atkinson is any less committed, enthused, and excited about his plans for the club? To judge the guy on the basis that he won't come onto an internet forum to discuss his business arrangemnts is fucking laughable. You can take it from me that he reads this forum every single day and is always interested in the topics being debated. I'll confirm this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Great put the link up Do your own research. Sorry can’t find an answer anywhere in the thread that tells me what’s in it for Mr. Atkinson, and why he will be in control of the football club when he is not even a shareholder and appears to have invested zero in the club financially. What is in it for him, what guarantee does he have that in fact he will still be a part of the new board, since it will be community owned? Will there be a new board or will the current one continue to run the club without owning the shares? I don’t think any of these questions are covered in what is probably the best thread on the forum in a long time. Have a look at the Official Club Statement that was issued ages ago. No-one would be able to answer why Richard is doing this except him. Pick up the phone, send him an email etc and ask him. Asking people who don't know that answer in a football forum is not the way to find the answer. I'm currently going through every post trying to find out who is paying the 2 million loan for the shares. I have picked up already that Mr Artkinson is not putting up any of his own money. So I gather the community must have to pay up the 2 million. Next logical question would be who in the community. Or does ktf think just because it's a community loan means it dose not need to be paid back if things goes tits up. What is this fresh air money. Anyway I an still shifting through the thread looking for the man with the answers according to himself ktf. Keep looking before excitedly posting... Ok break through from ktf So the loan is passed to CIC who then pass it on to us. Then if we cant pay back the 2 million CIC just right it off. Call me cynical but that sounds a wee bit good to be true, however I will keep my cynical head open and search further and just edit and add more as I find it bringing the thread up to date mmmm loan cant be recalled if defaulted. Then you write viable and able to return the loan. You obviously understand these things better than I do but I am a little confused with not paying through default and viable and able to pay the loan. Without your blood pressure going up - that brings back my original question who is paying the loan. You did say you gave the answer Ok, here goes, as best as I understand... The CiC obtain the loan/grant money, from the SIF, and use it to buy 52% of the shares. The said CiC effectively own the club as it has the majority share-hold. The CiC is owned and run by members - fans, local charities and companies, probably based on a vote type system but those details will be ironed out in due course. Therefore the fans, local charities, companies effectively run the club. One person, one vote - I'd assume. The whole reason that the SIF (lenders) are making sure that it viable and returnable is because it is soft. They want to make sure that it will be paid back and they will only invest it to groups who can prove that they have a good enough plan in place to return it. I'm not sure what's hard to understand about that... It's good stewardship - if they are going to loan something, they want to ensure that the debtor is able to pay back - especially because it can't be legally enforced if it is defaulted on. The CiC are the debtor, it is used to pay for the shares that are being sold - the club won't own the debt, the CiC will. Only the CiC can default on it, not the club. If they do it can't be recalled legally (as far as I am aware) and so this is why the lenders (SIF) want to make sure that the borrowers (CiC) have a good enough plan in place to generate the finance to pay back. I've said the same thing twice in two ways, hopefully it makes sense now. God, it is rather complicated when you look at it - but brilliant if it works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fras Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Ok, here goes, as best as I understand... The CiC obtain the loan/grant money, from the SIF, and use it to buy 52% of the shares. The said CiC effectively own the club as it has the majority share-hold. The CiC is owned and run by members - fans, local charities and companies, probably based on a vote type system but those details will be ironed out in due course. Therefore the fans, local charities, companies effectively run the club. One person, one vote - I'd assume. The whole reason that the SIF (lenders) are making sure that it viable and returnable is because it is soft. They want to make sure that it will be paid back and they will only invest it to groups who can prove that they have a good enough plan in place to return it. I'm not sure what's hard to understand about that... It's good stewardship - if they are going to loan something, they want to ensure that the debtor is able to pay back - especially because it can't be legally enforced if it is defaulted on. The CiC are the debtor, it is used to pay for the shares that are being sold - the club won't own the debt, the CiC will. Only the CiC can default on it, not the club. If they do it can't be recalled legally (as far as I am aware) and so this is why the lenders (SIF) want to make sure that the borrowers (CiC) have a good enough plan in place to generate the finance to pay back.I've said the same thing twice in two ways, hopefully it makes sense now. God, it is rather complicated when you look at it - but brilliant if it works! Good post.......but the last bit is the catch. I mentioned on another thread that Dundee have managed to raise a whopping £250k after months of tireless work......and that is to SAVE the club. Presumably, Mr.Atkinson has some big hitters lined up, because I don't think we could raise much more than Dundee. The economic climate for businesses is dire, so spare cash isn't quite what it used to be, unless you are in the Ice Cream van / taxi business (cough/sneeze). SMFC does not have a masive support base upon whuch to draw extra investment (we didn't even sell-out for a National Cup Final lest we forget). Big CK was even lamenting the downturn on hospiatlity in the recent B&W Mag. One notion could be a Barcelona-style membership scheme. EG: 2,500 current/former ST holders are persuaded to pay £10/month as Club members. Some benefits would need to be given from this (not applicable at JD Sports though !), and it could be in the form of a ramped-up Gold Bond type affair, although this would still be too much for Shull's weakened ticker. This would provide £300k pa. However, given the "consumer complaints" about admission prices and every other cost relating to football, factor in the current recession, then the viability of this renders it null & void in all realistic probability. Therefore the extra funds to come via the support will probably be nowhere near enough. I hope that firms in the Paisley area are secretly doing really, really well. Everyone I've spoken to has nice words to say about Richard, so this is nothing personal, but the "Brierly-ometer" is twitching........... Edited February 11, 2011 by div Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 And i have always said from the start i don't want anybody running our Club who isnae a St Mirren Supporter. Who does Dick support ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Everyone I've spoken to has nice words to say about Richard, so this is nothing personal, but the "Brierly-ometer" is twitching........... Not close. Remember that Brierly was mates with Hugh Scott at Morton with all sorts of rumours about Inverclyde United. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 And i have always said from the start i don't want anybody running our Club who isnae a St Mirren Supporter. Who does Dick support ? The fans and people from the local community will be running the club. Who does Massone support? Who would any Pole support? Who would the mythical "big name in Scottish football" talked about by Chic Young support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 The fans and people from the local community will be running the club. Who does Massone support? Who would any Pole support? Who would the mythical "big name in Scottish football" talked about by Chic Young support? Most of the local community support the Old Firm. Who does Dick support and why is he here ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Ok, here goes, as best as I understand... The CiC obtain the loan/grant money, from the SIF, and use it to buy 52% of the shares. The said CiC effectively own the club as it has the majority share-hold. The CiC is owned and run by members - fans, local charities and companies, probably based on a vote type system but those details will be ironed out in due course. Therefore the fans, local charities, companies effectively run the club. One person, one vote - I'd assume. The whole reason that the SIF (lenders) are making sure that it viable and returnable is because it is soft. They want to make sure that it will be paid back and they will only invest it to groups who can prove that they have a good enough plan in place to return it. I'm not sure what's hard to understand about that... It's good stewardship - if they are going to loan something, they want to ensure that the debtor is able to pay back - especially because it can't be legally enforced if it is defaulted on. The CiC are the debtor, it is used to pay for the shares that are being sold - the club won't own the debt, the CiC will. Only the CiC can default on it, not the club. If they do it can't be recalled legally (as far as I am aware) and so this is why the lenders (SIF) want to make sure that the borrowers (CiC) have a good enough plan in place to generate the finance to pay back. I've said the same thing twice in two ways, hopefully it makes sense now. God, it is rather complicated when you look at it - but brilliant if it works! One person, one vote - I'd assume. Why do you assume that? I'd suggest the CiC will be looking for investment and I'd imagine there'll be a minimum entry level (it was £200 when I bought my shares back in 1996) but they'd accept more from those that can afford it (after all there'll be the bulk of £2M to pay back somehow ). I think it's natural that someone investing more than the minimum would want a bigger say in proportion to their investment. Taking things to an extreme - what's to stop someone owning 52% of the CiC (that's just 26.04% of the total shares) controlling the club and freezing out everyone else? I'm agin it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Shull, It'll still be people from the local community. Bud the Baker, As far as I'm aware, shares in the CIC won't be available and investors/members won't receive shares in CIC. It will be 1 person 1 vote and each scenario where someone will become involved will see them get "bang for their buck". Once setup it'll then be up to the overall membership to decide where they want things to go. If you think £1 to get in is good for the club then propose it and back it up with a financial profile of how the gap will be filled to run the club on a break even basis. Likewise if you want a bar, propose it and if you want to provide streaming match coverage for overseas members or fans propose it. Quite frankly, if you've ever had an idea that would benefit YOUR club then dig it out, dust it off and put it forward. At the moment though it's all still in the planning and the building. Trust me that having been involved in the Ebbsfleet project you want it planned properly and implemented at the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Shull, It'll still be people from the local community. Bud the Baker, As far as I'm aware, shares in the CIC won't be available and investors/members won't receive shares in CIC. It will be 1 person 1 vote and each scenario where someone will become involved will see them get "bang for their buck". Once setup it'll then be up to the overall membership to decide where they want things to go. If you think £1 to get in is good for the club then propose it and back it up with a financial profile of how the gap will be filled to run the club on a break even basis. Likewise if you want a bar, propose it and if you want to provide streaming match coverage for overseas members or fans propose it. Quite frankly, if you've ever had an idea that would benefit YOUR club then dig it out, dust it off and put it forward. At the moment though it's all still in the planning and the building. Trust me that having been involved in the Ebbsfleet project you want it planned properly and implemented at the right time. Really glad I started all this. Its been well worthwhile. Even putting up with the usual abuse. Here we all are 3 days, 200 posts, 7500 views later. NO definitive answers but lots of if / but / maybe / as far as I know / as far as I am aware / heard that / think it / could be etc etc etc. NO word from Mr. Atkinson I see. I did not want to see his deepest secrets - just the financial mechanism which he intends to use and what will happen if any loans cannot be repaid. I will check back on Monday to see if any anything concrete has arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Marvellous Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 St Sid you say:- There is no down side, but it won't stop some dafty trying to invent some. But if you read this quote:- "Can a CIC revert to its original status? Once a company becomes a CIC it cannot return to its original status as a normal company; its only option is to become a full Charity." I'd say that's a definite down side! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Shull, It'll still be people from the local community. If they are Old Firm minded ( bigots) then they spend their money on sectarianism. They don't give a toss about us. Who does Dick support and what does he get out of all this ? Where is Dominic Keane nowadays ? That Ferranti Thistle diehard !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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